Gnip

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Neo-Jay (talk) 23:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes

I should have kept the fact that he was killed afterwards, didn't I? I can't remember if I did or not. The actual certain event of his death is somewhat hazy in historical records, if I recall reading a while back. Conflicting accounts of how he actually died after he fled Beijing.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course you should note his final outcome, but leave the info about him fleeing Beijing, I will add to that. It is important. He was forced to flee Beijing because unlike Dorgon and Wu, had had no discipline and authority amongst his rag-tag ranks, who disobeyed his orders and pillaged the city at will. When word came of the approaching standards of Wu Sangui (with Dorgon in the rear, so as to present to the Chinese as if a Chinese general alone was coming to their aid, not realizing the political maneuvering of Dorgon), Li had no choice BUT to flee. He was not in control of Beijing, it was in total chaos. That is worth mentioning. Had he had discipline amongst his ranks he might have had a chance at defending such a paramount position as the capital itself. It is important that readers understand this. Please, do not leave that out, I will expand later with proper sources. This is my second to last week of school, I will be doing MAJOR reconstruction to the Ming article afterwards. Thank you for your help. It is very much needed for such a hefty topic as a three century period of China.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 06:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi again

With your edits to Huolongjing, we will need more than just the title of the book in that citation you gave about Juan de Mendoca; I'll need actual page numbers for those if you still have the book Late Imperial Chinese Armies on hand. Thanks.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 01:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Long time no see!

Fancy seeing you again! Thanks for providing this quote on my talk page. It should be very useful indeed. I'll find a way to include it in the article. However, it is late, and I am off to bed for now. Cheers.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 06:33, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Response China military history

I have edited and changed the article somewhat. I am relatively inactive on wikipedia now, so if you have sources please expand the article with them. As to the Manchus' view on gunpowder weapons, see:

It stands to reason that

limiting the use of firearms to a single centralized body of people specially trained and easily controlled, and keeping the production of weapons under direct state control, could be measures meant as much to rationalize the deployment of artillery in military campaigns as to prevent the proliferation of a type of

weaponry that might give potential Chinese rebels an edge against the Qing forces.

which is from your source. The Ming armies relied on gunpowder weapons to a great deal and developed them, while Manchus viewed gunpowder weapons (and new inventions/economic development in general) as a threat to their rule. This was a major reason for China's decline starting from the 17th century onwards.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:19, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

That's all good. By the way, where does Sun Tzu's citation talk about the Tang? I checked the Sui-Tang section, there were no griffith citations. As to the equipment section, I was trying to give the reader an overview of the equipment of the Chinese army in late imperial times (etc., Song onwards), but I guess that didn't work out. Maybe the sections should have different paragraphs dealing with different periods? Anyways, I am busy right now off wiki and can't help, but I welcome help from other editors. If you are really aching to work, there is also Economic history of China (pre-1911), a GA I wrote, to work on. Thanks for your help!Teeninvestor (talk) 01:00, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Huolongjing

Actually, that picture is not from the Huolongjing, so it is perhaps misleading to place it in the article, let alone the lead. I'll see if I can find a worthy replacement image.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 16:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Government of the Han Dynasty

Hi Gnip. Are you certain about this? Prof. Gary Lee Todd did not provide any sort of wall plaque describing the artwork, but he did place the image in a page specifically labeled as showing Chinese artwork from its inception up to the end of the Han Dynasty. Could you provide some sort of comparison artworks from the Sui/Tang Dynasties? I've also seen many Han stone reliefs; some reliefs provided on that page by Professor Todd are unquestionably from Han period tomb walls. However, the lack of wear-and-tear and lanky artistic style on the image in question does raise an eyebrow or two, I will admit. I'll need more evidence, though, before I am totally convinced that the images should be removed. Cheers!--Pericles of Athens^Talk 05:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm fairly convinced now! Thank you for the excellent links. I will prepare some replacement images for these reliefs by tonight. Cheers.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 19:39, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

gunpowder

do you have any sources about this?- Battle_of_Mohi#Usage_of_Gunpowder_and_Firearms. I've read before that Mongols used a type of catapult and/or rockets during their invasion of europe, but I'm not sure what they were called, all it said was that they were of Chinese design.DÜNGÁNÈ (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. I checked the sources and the last one was pretty specific that gunpowder bombs were thrown on catapults. Gunpowder bombs were called "thundercrash bombs" during this era, but I don't know why that should be important. I think I can help better if you clarify what you're trying to do. Gnip (talk) 5:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to create an article on how the Mongols adopted and transferred military technology, which was generally either from China or the Islamic world, seeing as they didn't pick anything up in Europe (they bulldozed all of their European opponents pretty fast), compared to the over 30 year invasion of China. Sources mention some sort of hand pulled trebuchets hurling bombs and maybe some form of primitive rocket in use, but no cannon.DÜNGÁNÈ (talk) 22:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

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