User talk:Gonnym/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Talk:Turkey Time (1970 TV drama)

This RM has seemed to escape notice, so I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at it and offer some thoughts, as I've laid out two possible solutions on this one... Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

We're likely at the end of the road...

...With the naming of the Friday Night Football (AFL)/Friday Night Football (NRL) and related articles. I'm not going to even bother to propose moving any of the others if we can't get these ones moved, and nobody seems interested in "fixing" these (as I've posted a notice to WT:TV about this one, and got no response), and the intransigence of other editors who won't even propose viable alternatives means we're stuck. I dunno if that means you want to move these to Category:Television articles with disputed naming style, or leave them in Category:Television articles with incorrect naming style. But it's clear these ones aren't going to get moved, so I'm going to move on to other ones that I can actually fix... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:48, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Sadly yes. Hopefully it will stay like this til the end with a 3-2 vote in our favor. Any close closing as no consensus like that will have to explain why they would disregard a community guideline which itself is a consensus for naming articles, in favor of a WP:LOCALCON. --Gonnym (talk) 19:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Trailblazers (Community Channel TV series)

Would you categorize this as a "TV series" or a "TV program"?... Once I know that, I can move it from unnecessary disambiguation, because this looks to be the only TV show (article) with the title Trailblazers. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:31, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Argh, scratch that – Trailblazers (XLEAGUE.TV series) also exists. (This one is definitely a "TV program" though...) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:32, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

And both aired in 2007 – there's probably not much I can do here (except move them to "TV program" if appropriate...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:38, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

IMDB calls it a talk show, and this seems like its a talk show or interview program [1]. --Gonnym (talk) 20:09, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

OK, it'd be weak, but we could move Trailblazers (Community Channel TV series) to Trailblazers (talk show), and move Trailblazers (XLEAGUE.TV series) to Trailblazers (TV program). But that's something I'd probably have to run through a WP:RM... The other possibility is to, frankly, take both to WP:AfD, as I doubt either show is actually "notable"... I'll think it over. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:36, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Witchblade (TV series)

Gonnym, any chance you can work your WP:AWB magic, and update all of the links currently pointing to Witchblade (TV series) to Witchblade (U.S. TV series)? If you do, you may want to wait until later today – I just updated the link for this at the {{TNTShows}} template, and so it'll probably take up to an hour for that change to propagate... Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:43, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Sure np. --Gonnym (talk) 13:44, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Should be done. --Gonnym (talk) 17:09, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Zari Tomaz

Nice work creating all those Arrowverse character redirects and adding them to the right categories. Can you please re-format Zari Tomaz accordingly? --Kailash29792 (talk) 14:05, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@Kailash29792: in reformat you mean getting the links to point to the Arrowverse link? --Gonnym (talk) 15:32, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Yep, along with the right categories. But never mind; I did it myself by copying syntax and pasting. --Kailash29792 (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh, you meant in the redirect itself adding the categories. I thought you were talking about the articles. --Gonnym (talk) 15:48, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@Kailash29792: hey, mind taking a look at Talk:Arrow (season 7)? --Gonnym (talk) 09:12, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Big Brother update

So major advancement got Bulgaria's celebrity seasons and the Finnish seasons moved to correct names. Nominated the first numbered edition... Portugal's Secret Story while taking the issue of the Big Brother season templates to WP:TfD. I'm gonna hold off on the RMs for now as there are two big ones in progress. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 20:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Nice! Slowly this mammoth of a project is being completed! --Gonnym (talk) 07:10, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

TBH I'll be happy once this is all done lol. I hope the Portuguese proposal generates more input from WP:NCTV before the a latter RM causes a stir about the new proposed disambiguation. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:52, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Template:Infobox actor awards

Thanks for improving the template! Question for ya, what is the purpose of the nowiki tag? Just trying to understand. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 16:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

To be honest, I have no idea. I don't see where the nowiki open tag even is. Need to ask Frietjes as she was the one who converted the code to use the infobox module. --Gonnym (talk) 16:53, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: can you shed some light by chance? --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 17:10, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Zackmann08, the old non-infobox version showed the Total awards won and Total nominations no matter if these were empty or not. the nowiki tag ensures this happens in the infobox version. Frietjes (talk) 17:13, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

in my opinion this edit is generally pointless. Frietjes (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't agree, the earlier one was harder for me to read. Since template code is already a garbage of curly bracers, making even the simplest parameter unnecessary hard to read, having no spaces between anything just makes it even harder. --Gonnym (talk) 17:16, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Big brother

I think it’s not a good idea to merge the temple big brother to the season it not good at all we all oppose it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.40.45.122 (talk) 09:07, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, I don't know who "we" are, but I support it, and the proposer does as well. --Gonnym (talk) 09:12, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

I don’t agree to this at all please I beg you don’t do it.

First, please learn to sign your comments. Second, please stop leaving me messages. --Gonnym (talk) 09:20, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Why I don’t agree to it anyways and does that mean you are going to delete that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.198.182 (talk) 09:22, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

I think I can safely answer this as I am in agreement with Gonnym on this. No we are not going to delete our opinions on the matter. If you don't want to see the templates disappear then I suggest you read WP:TfD on how the process works and also opposing something just because you don't like it is not a valid argument. If you oppose the measure that has been presented then go here and explain a legit reason for these templates to stay in their current form. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:49, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

I meant are you going to delete the big brother template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.198.161 (talk) 16:44, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

They're not going to "delete" it – they're talking it about making it a "module" within the television infobox. But it will still "exist" and will be usable at the BB articles. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:32, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

"TV film" question

Hey, I'm interested in all of the examples like Savage (1973 TV film) which are disambiguated with "([year] TV film)" for my NCTV "double disambiguation" project. Do you have any regex-y tricks up your sleeve that you can use to search for and generate such a list?... 'Cos when I try a "simple search" for this, I'm not even getting the Savage TV movie example... TIA! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:53, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Trying to reply from mobile and it's horrible. Anyways, try intitle:"TV film)". I got results with that. --Gonnym (talk) 16:00, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

The good news? That does work! The bad news? Pretty much every result returned so far is for a redirect, and not for an article – Savage (1973 TV film) is the only article disambig'ed like this that I can find. And I'm not real keen on including things in naming guidelines when there's only a single example of it... Oh well. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:51, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Just found a second one! – Oliver Twist (1982 TV film) vs. Oliver Twist (1982 Australian film) (the latter should probably be moved...). Oh, wait, this one is worse than I thought – it looks like they're both TV movies!! Ugh! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:53, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

You should really install the search script which I'm using. Here is the list: Savage (1973 TV film), Small Claims (TV film), Oliver Twist (1982 TV film), The Girl (2012 TV film), Beauty and the Beast (1976 TV film), Emma (1996 TV film), Best Foot Forward (TV film), An Inspector Calls (2015 TV film), Journey to the Center of the Earth (1993 TV film), Journey to the Center of the Earth (2008 TV film), Black and White (1999 TV film), Invincible (2001 TV film), Buried Alive (1990 TV film), Cradle Song (TV film), The Deep Blue Sea (1954 TV film), Innocents (2000 TV film). --Gonnym (talk) 16:00, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Cool! – Thanks!! I'll look through this list when I get some time. But the Oliver Twist films will have to go through a WP:RM (to move to "([year] [country] film)" disambig. And, in regards to The Girl (2012 TV film), The Girl (2012 independent film) should be moved to The Girl (2012 theatrical film), IMO, because some "independent film" projects end up going straight to television, so "independent film" is insufficient disambiguation in this case... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:13, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Weird issue...

Gonnym, would you have any idea why Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television is showing up in Category:Television articles with incorrect naming style? I'm guessing that somehow the category has been "transcluded" on to the Talk page by a link, but I can't figure out how... TIA. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:01, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Fixed --Gonnym (talk) 00:01, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Some other reality shows with incorrect names... *cries*

@Gonnym and IJBall: While looking through template linking and transclusion check reports for Big Brother templates I found the following articles that are not in compliance with WP:NCTV and are outside of WP:BIGBRO's purview.[2] [3] I'm not sure if y'all knew about these or not or if they are in the maintenance category.

• Ace Of Space 1 - switched from {{Big Brother endgame}} to {{IACGMOOH contestants}}.
• A Fazenda (Brazil's version of The Farm) - Seasons 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 - All have {{Big Brother endgame}}.
• Je suis une célébrité, sortez-moi de là ! (French adaptation of I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here!} - Series 1 - Follows WP:NCTV but not WP:NCUE as the title literally translates to I am a celebrity, get me out of there! according to Google.
• Quinta das Celebridades - Portuguese version of The Farm seasons one and two have no article but A Quinta is the article for season three and A Quinta: O Desafio is season four. The naming don't make sense and they both have {{Big Brother endgame}}.
• Paradise Hotel (Denmark) 2009 - I recommend delete here instead of replacing {{Big Brother endgame}} en~Wiki doesn't have any other Danish Paradise Hotel articles. The main Paradise Hotel article in the "International versions" section links to da~Wiki anyway.
• Mireasă pentru fiul meu season 2 (Romania) - I'm not sure what this is and I couldn't find much about this I suggest delete here or merge with parent article.
• Star Academy 9 (France) - merge with parent article here on en~Wiki as it has more information like the winner. The individual season article on fr~Wiki is much better.
• Farmen 2018 (Norway) - Norway's version of The Farm and the only season article on en~Wiki. We don't even have an article about the whole series on en~Wiki btw.
• Kmetija 2018 - 9th season of Slovenia's version and the only season en~Wiki has an article on however we do have an article on the series as a whole here.

These are okay by WP:NCTV (I think?) but the article is bare bones and could be deletion or merge candidates:

• Occupation Double - delete, fr~Wiki article is much better its not worth the time converting all the {{Big Brother endgame}} infoboxes to unsourced tables in the en~Wiki article.
• Dilemme - borderline keep but fr~Wiki article is much better overall
• Farmen (Swedish season 11) - In cases like this that use both {{Big Brother endgame}} and {{Infobox television season}} I say we just delete {{Big Brother endgame}} because all the information is already in the article. This is the only article en~Wiki has on the Swedish version btw.

TBH I'm not going to go through all of these and re-configure them for the module when there are over 400 Big Brother articles I'm thinking delete, delete, delete for some of these. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 00:56, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Rather than deleting, some of these can probably be just converted to redirects.

But there are bunch of articles like this that are incorrectly named! — Frankly, I'm going to need yours and Gonnym's help to figure out what to move the following – El Gran Show (Special Edition of 2012), El Gran Show (Reyes del Show of 2013), El Gran Show (Reyes del Show of 2015), El Gran Show (Reyes del Show of 2016), and El Gran Show (season 3 of 2017) – to! I literally have no idea what these should be moved to... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:00, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm thinking of starting my own reality TV show I'm a Wikipedian of Incorrect Naming Conventions, Get Me Out of Here! Seriously though I have an understanding on how El Gran Show ended up with this wacky convention after reading Bailando por un Sueño. It originated as a Mexican format that is similar to Dancing with the Stars. Essentially there are three seasons per year the top three pairs from the first two seasons will move on to the third and final season of the year to determine which pair is the overall champion that year. 2012 followed a slightly different format with one season and one special while 2017 had 3 seasons and a special. es~Wiki is breaking these out by "editions" based on year with each edition having 2-4 seasons. May need to see if me or Gonnym can find any sources on this but I'm more inclined to go with WP:NCTV house of style here based on what I've seen so far. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 01:44, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

As I'm sure I've stated somewhere here, all most reality series articles don't follow any guidelines or policies. I guess we'll start working on those that use the Big Brother template as we need to get that deleted soon. --Gonnym (talk) 07:18, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

I switched Ace Of Space 1 and Je suis une célébrité, sortez-moi de là ! (series 1) over to {{IACGMOOH contestants}} (which is essentially the same thing as the Big Brother infoboxes and the deleted Apprentice infobox) for the time being. I honestly have never been a deletionist but some of those articles like Mireasă pentru fiul meu season 2 (Romania) needs to be merged into its parent at least while Occupation Double and Dilemme should be deleted. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 08:14, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Big Brother Infoboxes

Hey Gonnym and IJBall since Template:Infobox reality show candidates is no more I submitted a project wide proposal at WT:BIGBRO about discontinuing Template:Big Brother housemates and Template:Big Brother endgame and replacing them with one template similar to Template:Infobox television Survivor which I think WP:TV would find more acceptable. I plastered notices on all talk pages of active Big Brother seasons to help generate a project wide discussion. I'm not sure how this will work but I thought it would be better than springing surprises on the editors in the form of a request for deletion. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 10:57, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm all for it. Just a note though, Template:Infobox television Survivor shouldn't be what we aim for, as that infobox is also flawed. What should be done is that the Big Brother inbox should be a "child" infobox and inserted as a module into Template:Infobox television season. That way, the BB infobox still receives the full support of any update/change to the season infobox, will not cluttering it up with series specific params. --Gonnym (talk) 12:00, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Ah okay templates are not my area of expertise lol. Would it be possible to create a "child" infobox for Big Brother that is similar in appearance to the Survivor infobox that can be inserted as a module into Template:Infobox television season? If so can you help with that because I'll admit I have no clue what to do. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 12:24, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Sure. Give me the names of the parameters you want and their order. Look at the season infobox, I believe that any module infobox should start under the |starring= field and since this is a module, it will end above |country=. --Gonnym (talk) 12:27, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

So I created a list in a sandbox of mine that should fit between those two fields for each season. I was going to include a |film_start= and |film_end= for the very few pre-recorded editions (like if Big Brother China: Pilot Season ever gets its own article again) but I saw that Infobox television season already had those fields so I didn't include them. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 13:25, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Gonnym/Archive 2
Season 2
Starring	Starring 1 Starring 2
User:Gonnym/sandboxBigBrother/infobox
No. of episodes	60
Release
Original network	ABC
Original release	1 January 2018 (2018-01-01) – December 31, 2018 (2018-12-31)

Here is an example with the fields you asked for. I'd recommend you think twice if a custom label is needed. These kind of labels usually end up with garbage data. Location might also be something you can live without as other television seasons don't list where they were filmed. --Gonnym (talk) 14:07, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Ohhh that's perfect actually! I'm not a fan of custom labels myself but there needs to be a place at least a spot for America's Favorite Houseguest (or similar prize for other editions) and trying to have a field for everyone would be too much. The location field really doesn't need to be there I just saw that from the Survivor infobox and thought it would be neat for editions that actually have the Big Brother House in a different country. Your amazing with templates! Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:26, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

So in short yes we do need the custom field but we can do without the location field Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:28, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: any thoughts? The only change to the season template was moving |module= a few spots up to a more logical position. --Gonnym (talk) 14:42, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Gonnym So Gonnym the the discussion for the Big Brother templates has closed as successful. Could you create the module and we can begin work on doing the conversion. There are two WP:BIGBRO editors that said they would help convert articles from the old templates to the new one as well. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:59, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: I'm a little lost with all the various discussions this has taken place in. Do you know where we worked on the documentation? Also, I remember you working on a new table for Big Brother articles which I wanted to comment on but always forget, could you point me to that also? --Gonnym (talk) 12:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Ok, found them all but the table, so just need a link to that one. Also, would you prfer the label for hosts/presenters be "Hosted by"/"Presented by" or "Host"/"Hosts"/"Presenter"/"Presenters"? --Gonnym (talk) 12:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Lol I was just gathering this for ya then got an edit conflict message.

• This sandbox has the proposals in regards to the tables. I would say about 50% already have table listing the Housemates so in that case all that would need to be done is just to add Entered/Exited/Status columns to the table similar to other reality shows. For the others that don't have a table then one would need to be added to the article similar to the Bigg Boss example.
• Since the ultimate goal is trying to reduce the amount of infoboxes in the future I would suggest "Hosted by"/"Presented by" since that is what {{Infobox television Survivor}} is using.

Hope this helps! Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 12:58, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh another thing the old templates Template:Big Brother housemates and Template:Big Brother endgame are currently semi-protected because they are high visible templates we may want to see if an admin could put the replacement module under semi-protection as well. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 13:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I've added some examples on the tables sandbox. In general my note is, if you have a column that holds multiple pieces of information, then the correct way to present it, is to split it into more columns.--Gonnym (talk) 14:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Ok, so the template is placed at Template:Infobox reality competition season. Explanation on the name (though we've talked about this already, so just a recap) - I've used a general "reality competition" name instead of "Big Brother" as it could and should be used for almost any non-talent reality competition TV program. The "season" was added, both to fit the parent template but also, since currently there is a big brother series template, which might stay, might merge into the general TV series one, or might become a module of it, like this has.

I've added the documentation You've worked on. If you get a consensus discussion about not adding contestants to the starring fields and it passes, that should be added to the doc. I've also added your testcases. I'll see about getting the protection level of the template set. Any other issues? --Gonnym (talk) 13:35, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Everything looks good you are a template master! Thanks for all your help with this. The only change I would recommend is changing would be mentions of The Apprentice to I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! for now since that show would be the next logical candidate to use this module because of {{IACGMOOH contestants}}. The Apprentice articles are either using {{Infobox television season/custom}} like the American version or {{Infobox television season}} like the British version. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 13:41, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

OK, but give me a replacement program then so we'll have more than Big Brother as an example here. --Gonnym (talk) 13:44, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! was the replacement program its a separate format from Big Brother that Endemol Shine has no involvement with. It can also be used for Survivor (franchise) with no effort. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:03, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates and getting the protection sorted I've switched two seasons over to the module Celebrity Big Brother 2 (U.S.) and Gran Hermano VIP (season 6). I like your Alt table ideas I have a feeling TheDoctorWho may end up using it for Big Brother 7 (U.S.). I'm gonna start a new discussion over at WT:BIGBRO here shortly and ping TheDoctorWho and Oenix2nd in on it since they volunteered to help with the American and Philippine adaptions respectively during the discussions. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:42, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Through My Eyes (TV drama)

What would you advise moving this to? One bona fide WP:RS, The Age, actually does refer to this as a "film". A much less reliable source, lindychamberlain.com, describes it as a "mini-series". The other sources call it neither, seeming to prefer to refer to it as a "drama".

This is going to be a recurring problem with these "TV films" aired over two nights – they're not really "TV films", nor are they "miniseries" (which generally comprise at least 3 parts)... I think in cases like these, we'll need to go with what the sources call them, and in this case, my preference would be to defer to The Age. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:33, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Until our discussion on this, I've never known of this kind of film/series hybrid. If it helps, lists this as part of the TV series the actress appeared in, and this also won the Logie Award for Most Outstanding Actress. What I'm not sure of, is if the Logies cover TV films. --Gonnym (talk) 16:49, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

To me, 2-episodes/2-parts is not really a "TV series". Luckily, in this case, none of the sources at the article use the term "series" (in reference to Through My Eyes). Thus I'm inclined to just move it to "film", if there's no objection on your part. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:00, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

It's very common for Australian miniseries to be 2-part (2x90 minutes on public TV or 2x2hrs on commercial TV). They premiere on Sunday night and conclude the next night or the following Sunday. I've never seen these referred to as a 'film'. Just a few examples: Paper Giants: Magazine Wars, Hoges: The Paul Hogan Story, The Leaving of Liverpool (miniseries). Boneymau (talk) 21:24, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

This actually seems to buttress my point – while sources at Hoges: The Paul Hogan Story do refer to it as a "miniseries", the sources at Paper Giants: Magazine Wars do not, and neither do the ones at The Leaving of Liverpool (miniseries) appear to. "Miniseries" vs. not really should depend on what the predominance of reliable sources refer to the project as. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

BTW (unrelated), shouldn't Face the Music (TV programme) be Face the Music (UK TV programme) as there are Face the Music (New Zealand game show) and Face the Music (U.S. game show) and every TV game show is a TV program (TV program being the common denominator)? Same issue with The End (TV programme) and The End (Australian TV series)--Gonnym (talk) 16:52, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

On the latter, I'm not moving any articles like this until the various "upcoming TV series" actually start airing – I'm treating this as a WP:CRYSTALBALL situation until that happens (this is also why I haven't moved some of the others, like The Heights (TV series)...). On the former, it is generally agreed that "TV series/TV program" and "game show" and "talk show" are already sufficiently disambiguated from each other without the need for additional "by country" or "by year" disambig (e.g. Harry#TV shows is a good example of this). In that specific case, the game shows need further disambig., from each other, but the "TV programme" one should be fine where it is. If you disagree, you can put it through a WP:RM request. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:55, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Spin Out (The Flash) listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Spin Out (The Flash). Since you had some involvement with the Spin Out (The Flash) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:14, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Another WP:AWB request

Gonnym, any chance you can use your WP:AWB to do the following:

• Update all incoming links: Breakout (2010 TV series) → Breakout (U.S. TV program)
• Update all incoming links: Breakout (TV series) → Breakout (Singaporean TV series)

It turns out both Breakout (TV series) and Breakout (2010 TV series) need to be redirected to Breakout#Television as per WP:INCDAB, as both series actually premiered in 2010!!... Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:34, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

• Fixed incoming links. --Gonnym (talk) 08:44, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

And another...

Gonnym, any chance you can update all incoming links from Unconditional Love (film) → Unconditional Love (2002 film)? (I've moved Unconditional Love (TV drama) → Unconditional Love (2003 film), which is why moving Unconditional Love (film) → Unconditional Love (2002 film) became necessary...) Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:30, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

• Done. --Gonnym (talk) 11:01, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Infobox reality competition season

Hi, please check the documentation of {{Infobox reality competition season}}, which shows the use of {{Infobox television season}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:21, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks Andy, didn't notice those hidden parameters as I was looking at the infobox examples. --Gonnym (talk) 11:05, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Hey Gonnym on the module {{Infobox reality competition season}} could you make |num_survivors= as a switch of |num_contestants= similar to how its set up for housemates/houseguests for Big Brother? That's the only thing I can see that would need to be tweaked so that when Survivor articles use |num_survivors= the infobox will read "No. of castaways" instead of "No. of contestants". Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 03:37, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: the sandbox version already has this. --Gonnym (talk) 08:32, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Queen radio

The reason for merging the Queen Radio?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by WIKIZILE (talk • contribs) 10:18, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Revising WP:NCTV?...

Gonnym, now that even Talk:Committed (Canadian TV series)#Requested move 21 November 2018 has passed, I would say there is now ample "precedent" at RM that we should maybe think about revising the "by country" part of WP:NCTV as you have suggested... So, my question is – do you have an idea of what your proposed new language would look like?... If we can hammer that out, I would support changing the guideline, either boldly, or by posting the intention to do so at WT:NCTV first. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

How about something like this: --Gonnym (talk) 10:18, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Additional disambiguation

Additional disambiguation is needed when there are two or more television productions of the same type and name as (see also WP:INCDAB). The following options should help resolve the title ambiguity and should be used in a descending order, continuing on to the next option until the titles are sufficiently disambiguated.

1. Prefix the country of broadcast (see list of adjectives for accepted uses). Generally used when shows are distinct primarily due to region, especially used to distinguish regional versions of the same format/premise. Important: Write U.S. with periods, but write UK without periods (full stops) as per WP:NCA.
   • For TV series articles, use TV series name (Country-adjective TV series) as in (Canadian TV series), (UK TV series), (U.S. TV series).
   • For TV season articles, use TV series name (Country-adjective season/series x) as in (Canadian season x), (UK series x), (U.S. season x).
   • For the special case of TV season articles which have their season number as part of the season name, use TV series name # (Country-adjective season/series) as in (Canadian season), (UK series), (U.S. season).
2. Prefix the year of release or program debut. Generally used when there are shows with the same title within the same region and/or across multiple regions.
   • For TV series articles, use TV series name (year TV series) as in (1997 TV series).
   • For TV season articles, use TV series name (year TV series season/series x) as in (1997 TV series season x), (1997 TV series series x). - currently discussed in the TNMT RM
3. Prefix both the year of release or program debut and country of broadcast.
   • For TV series articles, use TV series name (year Country-adjective TV series) as in (1997 Canadian TV series).
   • For TV season articles, use TV series name (year Country-adjective TV series season/series x) as in (1997 Canadian TV series season x), (1997 UK TV series series x). - depending on the outcome of the TNMT RM
4. If the release year, country, or a combination of both is still insufficient to disambiguate the topic, an appropriate genre or format word ("animated TV series" or "anime", "sitcom", "soap opera", "telenovela", etc.) can then be considered for use via a page move request.

Disambiguation using television network identification is deprecated, but in certain cases, when programs air in the same region within a few years of each other, it may be advisable to create redirects in order to aid searching, linking, and prevent duplicate articles from being created (e.g. The Frank Sinatra Show (CBS TV series) for The Frank Sinatra Show (1950 TV series) and The Frank Sinatra Show (ABC TV series) for The Frank Sinatra Show (1957 TV series)).

Examples

• Big Brother (Dutch TV series), Big Brother (UK TV series) and Big Brother (U.S. TV series) – Prefixing the series with the country adjective.
• Blockbusters (Australian game show), Blockbusters (UK game show) and Blockbusters (U.S. game show) – Prefixing the game show with the country adjective.
• Coma (South Korean miniseries) and Coma (U.S. miniseries) – Prefixing the miniseries with the country adjective.
• Dancing with the Stars (Australian season 1), Dancing with the Stars (Irish series 1) and Dancing with the Stars (U.S. season 1) – Prefixing the season with the country adjective.
• Secret Story 1 (Portuguese season) - Prefixing the season with the country adjective, but without the season number.
• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987 TV series), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003 TV series) and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012 TV series) – Prefixing the series with the release year.
• The American Revolution (2006 miniseries) and The American Revolution (2014 miniseries) – Prefixing the miniseries with the release year.
• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987 TV series) (season 1), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003 TV series) (season 1) and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012 TV series) (season 1) – Prefixing the season with the series release year - Depending on TNMT RM
• Deception (2013 U.S. TV series) and Deception (Irish TV series) and Deception (2018 TV series) – Since there is an Irish article with the same name and release year and another American article with the same name, the 2013 American article needed to be prefixed by both the series release year and country adjective.
• Bullseye (1980 U.S. game show), Bullseye (2015 U.S. game show) and Bullseye (UK game show) – Since there is a British article with the same name, both American articles needed to be prefixed by both the series release year and country adjective.

Continued discussion

• As you know, I am quite opposed to including the "double-disambiguation" option in the guideline, as it will just lead to confusion with people using it in cases they should not (and there's only about half-a-dozen instances where it been necessary to use – IOW, it's used even less than the "TV special" disambiguation is!). The other issue here is that this is significantly longer than what's in the guideline now. Including some examples is probably a good idea, but this may be overkill. So I think some trimming here would be a good idea. Also, most of the "season" stuff, esp. the examples, should probably go in the 'Season articles' section. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

• Seriously though, why does it matter how long it is? Why is that even a factor? The question is, does the length duplicate any information or give new information? The reason this is long is because the usage has variations which come up over and over at RM and other discussions. There is no need for two "additional disambiguation" sections (which is what you are asking, if we have one for a series and one for a season). This section will come after the season section and address both (which would make the overall character count less as it saves duplicated words). Regarding the double disambiguation, we could remove it from the guideline, but that is just you burring your head in the sand. Even with your limited use of this style, it is still being done - so why not address it? Regarding the examples, we can trim them, I just thought it would be better to have one of each example, as sometimes examples are easier to understand then an abstract description (again, to me the extra few lines are negligible if the overall clarity of understanding is achieved). --Gonnym (talk) 15:17, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
• Also, it is longer than the current version, as the current version is horrible and does not even address season disambiguation, nor does it give any examples. I'm pretty sure that if it did those two, this version would be about the same length, give or take a sentence. --Gonnym (talk) 15:19, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

• It does address "sesaon" disambig., though maybe not enough, in the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television)#Season articles section. I think I prefer handling the "season" and "list of episodes" articles in their own sections, as is currently done. So it's not that your season examples are "wrong" or "overdone" – it's just that I think they'd go better in 'Season articles' section, than under 'Additional disambiguation' (we can always reference the former in the latter with a "See 'Season articles' below for additional examples")... Beyond that, I still thinking including "double disambiguation" is a bad idea – if it is to be included, it should be kept as short as possible, with just a single example (the Deception example you used is fine; another option would be the Wanted example). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:48, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

• That one line mention in the season section caused endless RMs because the language wasn't clear and people commented on the "additional disambiguation" section not covering it. Again, no reason for the split. Regarding the examples, just remove the ones in the above example you think should be removed, I really have no strong feelings for any, just that at least one of each type is presented. --Gonnym (talk) 17:23, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Not sure if this would impact this discussion but the RM for season articles of Secret Story (Portuguese TV series) was closed as successful and are now located at Secret Story 1 (Portuguese season), etc. Might be good to revise WP:NCTV if there is another show that has this situation. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 16:49, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm in the camp of "if this comes up in RMs and is an accepted practice, it should be in the guideline" but others, and sometimes IJBall, like to invoke WP:CREEP for some reason. I think they are just afraid we will run out of RMs to fight over :P --Gonnym (talk) 16:52, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

(Just saw this...) It's more a case of K.I.S.S. – things like naming guidelines should be kept relatively short and simple, and should attempt to handle just most of the "major cases". What I don't think is necessary is for guidelines to contain examples of esoteric or rare cases (e.g. "double disambiguation" under NCTV) – I think including those just leads to more confusion, not less... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:09, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

I'd appreciate an example of a situation in any example, could be even none-TV, where a good (good, not bad) guideline causes more confusion than not having it in. You might be right, but I cannot imagine such a scenario so would like see it through your eyes.

Ex on the Beach (UK TV series)

Gonnym – What's wrong with the naming of this one?... It seems to be a "reality competition"-type series, so "TV series" seems to be correct here. Is something else wrong with it?... TIA. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:05, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

It was fixed. It was U.K. instead of UK. --Gonnym (talk) 16:17, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:BIGBRO naming conventions...

Gonnym – Did anyone ever bother to update the WP:BIGBRO naming conventions after the recent spate of page moves (esp. the U.S. and UK ones)? I think it's pretty clear that whatever support there was for the "old" (non-standard) BIGBRO "naming conventions" is gone now, and so those need to be rewritten to reflect the new RM consensus(es?), and the fact that the BB naming conventions are actually under WP:NCTV. Pinging Alucard 16 to this discussion as well. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:12, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@IJBall: That section currently has an outdated template on it. I'm gonna update it this week while I'm on vacation now that the American and British series have been moved. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 19:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Counts for page titles

Out of curiosity, how do you get the page counts for particular disambiguators, such as the ones you mentioned at Talk:Talkback (BBC Radio Ulster)? -- Netoholic @ 20:35, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

I installed User:The Transhumanist/SearchSuite.js and then did a search for intitle:"radio program" and counted the results. --Gonnym (talk) 21:41, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I was hoping someone had discovered an easier way to do such counts of particular disambiguations, but this helps a bit. -- Netoholic @ 21:52, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Sadly, no. I've been doing this method the last few months in order to track down all the bad television disambiguation styles that I could think of. Until Wikipedia's engineers actually start treating the title and disambiguation as two objects and not one string, I don't see this changing really. --Gonnym (talk) 21:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

The Clinic (TV series)

Rather than moving this one to The Clinic (Irish TV series), I'm wondering if it makes more sense to either WP:AfD or WP:PROD The Clinic (Georgian TV series) instead. Any thoughts?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:22, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't see a point in that article. No blue links to cast or crew, no episode table, almost no information and no sources. Should go AfD or draft. I tried finding sources but all I could find was the IMDB page https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1790938/. --Gonnym (talk) 09:39, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

OK – Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Clinic (Georgian TV series). This probably could have been simply WP:PRODed, but going to AfD will make the result more "official"... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:20, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Another Ripley's Believe It or Not! TV show coming...

Thought you might be interested in this: [4] --IJBall (contribs • talk) 07:17, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Heh, so 6 versions now :) Well, I still stand behind my belief that each version should be its own article instead of a section in the main one with a split List of episodes article. --Gonnym (talk) 11:03, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Something funny....

I came across the official production website for Big Brother (Serbian TV series) and apparently they handed us the official naming convention on a silver platter so to speak. The official name of the show in Serbian is Veliki Brat but in English it is Big Brother. The name changes depending on if you chose to read their website in Serbian or English languages. Also the naming convention they prefer for the seasons is Big Brother <number> and Big Brother VIP <number>. Now I'm not too concerned with moving these articles considering how I have fixed the season chronology to work with Big Brother (Serbian season 4) and Big Brother (Serbian season 5) so they align with the Croatian series navigation wise. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 15:37, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Bot request

Hi Gonnym, I have left a message for you here, Wikipedia:Bot_requests#Getting_a_list_of_data_from_"lblN"_parameters_of_Template:Infobox_character. — Ganeshk (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Why do a lot of pages end in "19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)" with no parameter value at the end? --Gonnym (talk) 19:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't see the dates, can you use this link, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ganeshk/sandbox1&action=edit&oldid=877352599 and copy paste to Notepad? — Ganeshk (talk) 19:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

You will need to save it to a CSV file and then use Excel to import it with ~ as delimiter. — Ganeshk (talk) 19:57, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Bah, long day yesterday and should really pay more attention on days like that. I meant I see a lot of articles that have only "~~~~" and don't end in a parameter, such as "Ace (G.I. Joe)". Any idea why? --Gonnym (talk) 08:36, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

That would be because they don’t use any labels, the script could not find any. I was lazy, did not write a check to see if any of them are non-empty. You can use Excel to filter them out or I could do another run with the check added. — Ganeshk (talk) 12:43, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

No need for another run. Now that I know they are empty and not some error I can remove them from the list myself. Thanks a lot! This really narrows the list. --Gonnym (talk) 13:37, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

You are welcome. Glad I could help. — Ganeshk (talk) 18:50, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

And on Category:Television channel articles with incorrect naming style...

Not sure what else I can do here. It's strange – the first one or two WP:RMs I did on ones in this category passed overwhelmingly. But the last two have gotten bogged down. If they don't pass, I don't see any point in trying to do RMs on any of the others, as they're likely to go down the same 1-support-1-oppose rabbit hole... IOW, I'm not sure what I can do when people just ignore the relevant naming conventions... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:36, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

I was actually thinking of maybe we are attacking this from the wrong angle. Most of these channels have a small lead, usually with very generic information and then list the TV programs on the channel Disney XD (Southeast Asia), which is not really worthy of information, as that isn't original programming. Instead, a better article would be a main "network" article, listing the original programming of the network and a table listing the various channels in other countries. And a sub-section for each country that has any substantial information other than the date it started and ended. What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Something that can be added to MoS? --Gonnym (talk) 16:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, one of the reasons going through this cat may take some time is for that very reason. In fact, I just converted TeenNick (Italian TV channel) into a redirect to Nickelodeon (Italy) because there was basically no content at the TeenNick article, certainly not enough to justify an article. This gets back to the current problem with the related WP:TVSHOW – just because a TV show airs "nationally" doesn't necessarily mean it's "notable" (at least, not anymore). The same is also true of cable TV channels – just because a (national) cable TV channel "exists" doesn't necessarily mean it's "notable"... So, yeah – one "main" "TV network" article is probably better than all of these various rinky-dink articles for individual "cable TV channels" all over the globe.

Now, all that said, at this point, I'm really more concerned with just "fixing" the "whole categories" of TV channel articles that are currently misnamed. I just started an RM on the TLC channels which you might want to take a look at. The next obvious candidates are the Nickelodeon, MTV and VH1 channels. For right now, I am staying away from those that have "Channel" in their names – e.g. Disney Channel – because of what happened with the Discovery Channel RM – for these ones, we may have to hold an RfC to see if people support doing Disney Channel (France) over Disney Channel (French TV channel)... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:59, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Look what I found...

So while making a list I found Big Brother Türkiye 1 article lol. Nothing surprises me anymore I'm going to see what the deal is because I thought Big Brother Türkiye had all the info from the season. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 18:38, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Big Brother Infobox update

Hey Gonnym I noticed that some season articles won't need a table to move the Entered/Exit/Results info to the article like Secret Story (French TV series). I checked their season articles and all the info is in the article (sans table) so creating a table is not needed. For instances like this I'm gonna leave them to the end as your "simple operation" maybe best suited for these. By the way what is the "simple operation" you mentioned on my talk page? You have me curious... Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 15:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

In general two options - the first is just to remove the old template and whoever cares about that article should add the infobox on their spare time. Since this isn't really a replace of infoboxes, there is no data to move. While adding an infobox is a noble feature, it's not really part of the TfD requirement which was just to delete the template. Second option is to add a bare-bone template, name, image, link and again, let whoever cares fill in the rest. So if you look at the Secret Story example, you have the name and link info. --Gonnym (talk) 15:12, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Intriguing to be honest the four main English editions (American, Australian, British and Canadian) were top priority to get implemented correctly plus they have more sources than the international versions. For most international versions I'm just going to go through and bare bones then with what info is in the article. There is no way I'm working on the tables right now for Big Brother (German season 5) and Big Brother (German season 6) that lasted for a year and had over 50 housemates lol. Plus those two have way too many accessibility issues that my OCD would want to fix. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 15:20, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I totally understand. I'm shit at regex, so I can't get an AWB operation to work for that. If I could it would be much faster. --Gonnym (talk) 15:29, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

But I'm sure someone at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks can help. Once you get a list of articles you know you aren't going to create a table, make that list and then the whoever can help just needs to replace the templates with the information from |seriesname= -> |show_name=; |series= -> |season_number=; get the country -> |season_qualifier=. --Gonnym (talk) 15:39, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Awesome idea I posted the list you requested on Zackmann08's page. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 19:28, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

I just noticed that Category:Pages using infobox reality competition season with unknown parameters currently has 164 articles and it seems the |child= parameter is putting them there. Is this parameter not needed? If it isn't needed can an AWB task be used to remove them from the articles in the category? Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 08:06, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll remove those today. Apparently it's not needed to be added, as the infobox already handles that. Somehow I missed that. --Gonnym (talk) 08:24, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox television season/cleanup

When you see a page that has been created by an editor with a well established history, especuially in the very field that you are active in, it's considered polite to ask them first before nominating pages that they've created for deletion. Template:Infobox television season/cleanup is a template that I use on regular basis to cleanup articles that appear in Category:Pages using infobox television season with unknown parameters on a daily basis. You won't see any uses of it because it's meant to be substed. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, that page looked like a test page as it had no edit over 2 and half years and no documentation detailing what it was. --Gonnym (talk) 10:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Merging Infobox television Amazing Race with reality competition season

Hey Gonnym, I made a table in my third sandbox showing how Infobox television Amazing Race can be merged with Infobox reality competition season. Except for 9 "season statistics" parameters we can make use of existing parameters already available in Infobox reality competition season and Infobox television season. Hope this mockup table helps. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 04:56, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

• Looks solid, I'm just not sure about the stats. I'm not convinced that it isn't trivia. --Gonnym (talk) 08:48, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

New WP:AWB requests

Gonny, as I go through Category:Television articles using insufficient disambiguation, I'm occasionally going to need WP:AWB help in updating links after page moves. So I'll just post them here. The first request is for...: --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:58, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Daniela (TV series)

Could you please update the links currently pointing to Daniela (TV series) → Daniela (2002 TV series). Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:58, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Done, most of the links were from 2 templates. --Gonnym (talk) 15:20, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Paradox (TV series)

Could you please update the links currently pointing to Paradox (TV series) → Paradox (UK TV series), so that the former can be retargeted to Paradox (disambiguation)#Television. Luckily, this list of links is <50 long. Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:02, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

• Sure, will do it soon. I'm in the middle of using AWB to update pl.wiki of something and they asked me to not flood the recent changes, so I'm doing 10 changes/hour, so will probably get to this tomorrow. --Gonnym (talk) 19:43, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Done. --Gonnym (talk) 16:36, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Warship (TV series)

Got another one from Category:Television articles using insufficient disambiguation! – Could you please update the links currently pointing to Warship (TV series) → Warship (1973 TV series), when you get the chance? Thank you! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:03, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

• Done! --Gonnym (talk) 23:44, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

The Web (TV series)

This will be the last one out of Category:Television articles using insufficient disambiguation that I do for a while – most of the rest are waiting for upcoming TV shows to be released (and The Reporter (TV series) and The Lone Ranger (TV series) are going to require me to look deeper in order to come up with a solution)... Anyway, Could you please update the links currently pointing to The Web (TV series) → The Web (1950 TV series) (where applicable – a few of these links may need to point towards The Web (1957 TV series) instead...), when you get the chance? Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:50, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

I can't really tell which links goes where with AWB. Do you want me to move them all to 1950? --Gonnym (talk) 20:02, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that's safest – the 1950 series ran for 4 seasons; the 1957 series was just a short-term summer series. So it's likely that nearly all links mean to go to the 1950 series. Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:00, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Done! --Gonnym (talk) 09:38, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

List of recurring Arrow characters

This new list has been created by Autumnking2012. Many characters currently linking to List of Arrow characters need to link to the new article. Please do the needy via AWB. --Kailash29792 (talk) 05:01, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

• Done. --Gonnym (talk) 07:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
  • FTR, I'm strongly of the opinion that articles like this should be moved to, for example, List of Arrow recurring characters. I've seen a similar issue with articles like List of minor Angel characters, which should be at List of Angel minor characters... A list of articles with problematic titles like this should probably be tracked down, and we should see if there's support for moving these in RMs... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
    • And I found one or more to move, related to some of your previous RMs – e.g. Children of General Hospital, etc. (looks like Children of Days of Our Lives is just a redirect...). I'd prefer to move these to List of General Hospital children or List of General Hospital children characters, etc. but I could probably live with List of children of General Hospital... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
      • Now that Arrow (season 4) is in the mainspace, all its episodes linking to List of Arrow episodes should link to it now. How to edit multiple redirects in AWB? I'm only good with mainspace articles. --Kailash29792 (talk) 18:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
        • You need to make sure that "Follow redirects" in Options is not set. Then I just replaced "List of Arrow episodes" with "Arrow (season 4)". Done now. --Gonnym (talk) 23:35, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

OK, I've put in a WP:RM on this – Talk:List of recurring Arrow characters#Requested move 21 January 2019. (I'll save the RM for the Children of General Hospital article for later...) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

@IJBall:, I asked around in the the grammar section - Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Title question - what do you think? Since English for me is a second language, it's hard for me to really understand the difference, both seem correct and incorrect at the same time. --Gonnym (talk) 16:33, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Honestly, in "speaking English" terms, I think both ways are correct. But for article titling purposes, what I'm proposing is highly preferable, I think, for the reasons I've explained at the RM. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:37, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

H2 (A&E Networks)

Any idea what this should be moved to? At first glance, I was tempted to move to H2 (U.S. TV channel) but that already redirects to Viceland, and upon looking at the lede I'm definitely thinking it should be moved to H2 (TV network)... Any ideas? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:37, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Since I'm not really sure how this "officially" goes, I go by the rule of Main article = network, other country versions = channel; since basically we usually don't have a network article AND a channel article for the first/main version. This article even has a H2 (A&E Networks)#Channels section which makes this even more network-er. --Gonnym (talk) 16:49, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

OK, I've moved it back to H2 (TV network) – it was incorrectly moved from this title in Sept. 2017, so this just restores the former title. I've updated the relevant template, but we should check what links here for H2 (A&E Networks) later today and see if any WP:AWB needs to be applied to any links... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:15, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I might be a bit off this week, as I'm visiting friends in a different city, but if there are AWB, leave me a note and I'll see if I can get to it. --Gonnym (talk) 17:17, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

And we're probably at the end of the road...

...With what's left in the main Category:Television articles with incorrect naming style.

As I expected, we're going to get stymied on a solution to the "documentary" disambig'ed ones, which means there's not much more that can be done.

The last remaining issue is what to do with those articles that cover shows that started on radio, and were later on TV (I think there's only half a dozen of these, or less...), and while I have an idea on how to handle these, if we aren't going to get agreement on what to do with "documentaries", I can pretty much guarantee we're not going to get agreement on how to disambig. these "radio-TV" shows.

So there's maybe half a dozen "easy" ones left, that you've added recently, than can be "solved uncontroversially". And some other "odds and ends" one that can maybe be resolved. But the rest of these involve ones in which there is no consensus on what to do with them. So I'm thinking this category is going to stay where it is right now, with 120+-odd entries that aren't going away...

I'm going to start moving on to the sub-cats of the "incorrect naming style" ones full-time soon, I think. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:32, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, if you wont send them to RMs, I probably would. You were too naive to think anything can be solved uncontroversially on Wikipedia. Also, I think even without these, we can still lower the 120+ down a lot more. --Gonnym (talk) 11:06, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

If you do, it's likely to be a big job, as you'll need to figure out which of them are true "TV series" documentaries, and which qualify as just "TV programs/programmes". But if ever do bring them to RM, I know how I'm voting! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:17, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Already past the 120 mark and soon <100! --Gonnym (talk) 17:19, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

A significant chunk of what's left are these cases of "radio shows" that became "TV shows", and so are difficult to disambiguate. I have an idea on how we should handle these, but I am majorly burned out on WP:RMs right now, and don't plan to launch any major ones for quite a while. (This applies to RMs for TV channels as well...) Then the rest are a mix of ones we've already tried to "solve" but were stymied, ones that can't easily be solved, and a few that should likely just be deleted. The only major group left is The Saturday Show ones, and I've been putting that one off because I think at least one of them may be a "TV programming block" and not a "TV series" at all... But, as I said – I'm off RM right now, so somebody else can solve that one. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

The American Revolution (miniseries)

Stuff like this drives me nuts! In looking around, I'm not sure that it's notable (I found nothing in Variety or Los Angeles Times about it, and that's usually a red flag...). But it's one of those things that if you took it to WP:AfD, I'm not sure it would get deleted!

To further complicate matters, because there is a lack of sourcing on it, I can't tell if it should be at The American Revolution (miniseries), or if it's just titled The Revolution (meaning it should simply be moved to The Revolution (miniseries)).

In short, I don't know what to do with this one, and I'm not sure either an AfD or a RM would help... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:06, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

I think the series is called "The Revolution" (with maybe The American Revolution as another title it was known as). The official History Channel PDF release names each episode as "The Revolution:" (episode 1, change the number to see the other PDFs); The official site, IMDB and Amazon also call it that. No idea regarding the miniseries/TV series though. --Gonnym (talk) 20:00, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

OK, I've moved this to The Revolution (miniseries), as per this discussion. I may need your WP:AWB assistance to update some links related to this move – if I do I'll let you know here in a few hours. Then, once that is all done The American Revolution (miniseries) can simply be redirected to American Revolution (disambiguation) as per WP:INCDAB. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:38, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

We're "clear" on this one – I didn't need AWB to update the links! So The American Revolution (miniseries) has been successfully redirected to American Revolution (disambiguation) as per WP:INCDAB. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 January 24

Rather then replying to each of the threads, just wanted to say in one go that I agree with you comments about removing some fields. Once those TFDs are closed, I'll consult with you (and anyone else who voices thoughts) on exactly which fields to keep and which to discard. Thanks!!! --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:01, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Comedy Central (Israel)

Gonnym – Can you tell if this channel is actually called "HOT Comedy Central", or whether it's just "Comedy Central"? If it's the former, we can just move it to that as per WP:NATURALDIS. But, obviously, if it's the latter, I'll just move it to Comedy Central (Israeli TV channel)... TIA. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:37, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

official site calls this "Hot Comedy Central", as does this official source.--Gonnym (talk) 06:48, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done – ultimately moved to Hot Comedy Central. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:54, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Note also that I'm guessing that Hot (Israel) will need to be moved to some other title as well – this would probably fall under WP:NCCORP which I'm not nearly as familiar with... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Celebrity Big Brother "2"

OK, so I'm looking at this promo, and recalling other promos I've seen on TV lately, and nowhere do I see any indication that this is called "Celebrity Big Brother 2". (Indeed, the CBS webpage seems to be calling it "Season 2".) So I'm wondering if Celebrity Big Brother 1 (U.S. season) and Celebrity Big Brother 2 (U.S. season) need to be moved to Celebrity Big Brother (U.S. season 1) and Celebrity Big Brother (U.S. season 2), respectively?... Pinging Alucard 16 as well. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:46, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

• In the RM Alucard did say that the current change was just to eliminate the (US) disambiguation, but that we might change again depending on how season two is written. I can't see the promo, but I'm sure once it starts we will know more. --Gonnym (talk) 16:50, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Right now I wouldn't worry about moving the Celebrity Big Brother articles as it is still too soon to figure out the proper naming convention. Big Brother has its current naming primarily due to WP:NAMINGCRITERIA and WP:COMMONNAME. CBS has an identity crisis with that show where in episode summaries they used the old name and in articles they alternate between Big Brother, season # and Big Brother #.

So far CBS is remaining consistent on the website by referring to the new season as Celebrity Big Brother, season 2 or Big Brother: Celebrity Edition season 2. A lot of sources are using Celebrity Big Brother, season 2 in articles, however there are some using Celebrity Big Brother 2 like this this this and this. Before moving the Celebrity Big Brother its highly recommended to let the show premiere and see how CBS treats it once the show starts airing. If an RM is proposed now it could get derailed especially if someone does their homework and starts finding articles like the four above. As of now I would say Celebrity Big Brother (U.S. season #) is looking likely for the celeb edition as there are more RS using Celebrity Big Brother, season 2 but like I said I would wait for CBS to start airing the show and see what they do as far as episode summaries, episode recaps and articles on the official site.

For now I think we should focus on the last remaining BB articles with naming issues, fix the Israeli series and figure out what to do with Pinoy Big Brother. I'm not to concerned with Celebrity Big Brother 2 (U.S. season) at the moment because it is in the process of working itself out. If CBS keeps and maintains the use of Celebrity Big Brother, season 2 without using Celebrity Big Brother 2 on the official website after a few episodes have aired then I would be ok with moving it. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 19:14, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: Time to start a WP:RM yet? I still see no evidence that season #2 of Celebrity Big Brother is called anything like "Celebrity Big Brother 2" by CBS (and season #1 is not being called "Celebrity Big Brother 1")... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:18, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

@IJBall: I was thinking about that however after the Power of the Publicist twist was announced CBS used the name Celebrity Big Brother 2 in the legal terms regarding the vote. [5] In the same manner as Big Brother 20 Julie's notecards have the old style logo from seasons 2-15 with the title Celebrity Big Brother 2. I did find eight articles from reliable sources using the name as well. [6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] I think after CBS used that name in the legal terms for the twist might be best to wait a bit more. After all CBS didn't use name Big Brother 20 in episode descriptions until the final episode. I believe the next one that should go through WP:RM is the Israeli version. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 07:04, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Battle of the Sexes (radio contest)

Any suggestions on what to move this to? Perhaps just Battle of the Sexes (radio program)? The only other thing I can think of is Battle of the Sexes (radio game show) but that seems less than WP:CONCISE and possibly even somewhat confusing... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Well you know I'll never care about WP:CONCISE in any discussion. Radio programs while not having a NC should probably follow TV's guidelines (as we've recently been moving those pages), and this does indeed seem like a radio game show. Also worth noting, that this isn't alone, as I've tagged 15 other radio game shows at Category:Radio game shows with incorrect disambiguation.--Gonnym (talk) 14:57, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

As an aside, from what I am seeing in recent RM discussions, yeah – too many people are elevating WP:CONCISE over the other article titling criteria (e.g. WP:PRECISE and WP:CONSISTENCY)... Suffice it to say, I will not be taking any more article moves to RM that are just following the relevant NC guideline, as it just gives people excuses to ignore the NC guideline for whatever reason people feel like. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it is insane that a guideline can be ignored without any need for exception just because a vote count said so. What's the purpose of having any guideline if any local consensus and any admin who doesn't care, can just ignore it? --Gonnym (talk) 15:21, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Also, while it does sound confusing calling a radio program a "show", the first sentence at Game show says A game show is a type of radio, television, or stage show in which contestants.... --Gonnym (talk) 15:00, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Hmmm... that would imply that Battle of the Sexes (game show) is actually sufficient for article titling purposes... Interesting. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

That could work, but also remember that we tend to always add the medium (I know the current NCTV does not add the medium, which is another in the list of shortsighted points in that guideline), so having only "game show" should not really be our end-result. --Gonnym (talk) 15:21, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I think the solution is to move it to Battle of the Sexes (game show), but have Battle of the Sexes (radio program) and the original title exist as redirects – that should capture nearly everybody looking for the article... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:44, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

The problem is searching and categories. For those a redirect title means nothing, so having an ambiguous disambiguator does not help anyone. For example, when I'm searching stuff, and in this case, I want to search for (game show) articles, I don't want a radio game show. There really is no reason not to continue on with (radio x) here. --Gonnym (talk) 18:13, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Latest WP:AWB request

So I just moved Tonight (TV programme) → Tonight (1999 TV programme) for necessary disambiguation from Tonight (1957 TV programme) as per WP:INCDAB. Could you please use AWB to update any articles pointing to either Tonight (TV programme) or Tonight (TV series) to point to Tonight (1999 TV programme) instead. Once that's done, I can then redirect both Tonight (TV programme) and Tonight (TV series) → Tonight#Television as per WP:INCDAB... Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:20, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Done! --Gonnym (talk) 18:45, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Category:Anime film and television articles using incorrect naming style

A good portion of these look like they're OVA series. Based on the previous RM's we've done, I guess a lot of these can be moved to "(film series)", but I'll probably focus on the (primarily) TV series ones first. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:36, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Good idea. As we have the backing of both the TV and Anime guidelines, the previous RfC and previous RM, I think that we are allowed to change these without anymore RMs, as those have shown us, the arguments are not based on any guideline or policy, but on IDONTLIKEIT responses. If anyone has any issues, they can always start a discussion after. --Gonnym (talk) 18:48, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

"Australian season [x]"

You seem to know the tricks of searching better than I do. Could you please list some examples of articles that are currently using "Australian season [x]" over "Australia season [x]"? There are a bunch of the latter in Category:Reality television articles with incorrect naming style, and I want to see a number of "correct" examples before I start trying to move these... Thanks in advance. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:18, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

• 27 articles using "Australian season" - [14]
• 3 articles using "Australian series" - Gladiators (Australian series 1), Gladiators (Australian series 2) and Gladiators (Australian series 3)
• 50 articles using "Australia season" - all are reality articles - [0}]
• 0 articles using "Australia series".

Australia is not the adjective though, so that can't be the correct title per NCTV. Did I miss anything? --Gonnym (talk) 16:24, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

No, this is good! As long as there are examples like Big Brother (Australian season 1) (which was the result of an WP:RM) and Dancing with the Stars (Australian season 1), then I have enough to justify moving all those Australian ones in Category:Reality television articles with incorrect naming style... But that's a big job – I'll probably try to peck away at these over the next couple of weeks. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:46, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Category:Reality television articles with incorrect naming style

Hello, could you explain why titles such as Top Model (France season 1) don’t comply with WP:NCTV, and what titles should they each be moved to instead? I’m happy to move the pages. Thank you. Linguist111^{my talk page} 18:28, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Linguist111:, the country name should actually be the country adjective from List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations. So for France, it would be "French season 1". --Gonnym (talk) 18:37, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes – see, for example: Secret Story (French season 1). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Alright, thanks! Linguist111^{my talk page} 18:49, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:RMC

You may want to take a look at WP:RMC, as I've been forced to start another RM for a TV series that now has incomplete disambiguation based on something you tagged yesterday. FWIW. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:40, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Replacing "produced by" credit with executive producer (showrunner) credit

Hi Gonnym, I replied to your comment on the discussion in the Template talk:Infobox television episode. ATC ^{. Talk} 21:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Tracking category question

Gonnym – so I've noticed there are a number of WP:BLPs (e.g. Karen David is the latest example that I've come across) that are using {{Infobox musical artist}} for subjects who are primarily known as actors, and thus instead should be using {{Infobox person}} with {{Infobox musical artist}} used as a module inside {{Infobox person}}. Do you think a tracking category for this could be created? If so, how hard would it be to "populate" such a category? Would it likely require a bot request?... Thanks for any thoughts you can provide about this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:29, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

This is a hard one. Lets see what your answers are to these questions, maybe this will help. If a person has a category Category:British film actresses, does it always need {{Infobox person}}? If a person has {{Infobox musical artist}} and has |occupation=actress, singer, songwriter which includes "actress", does it always need {{Infobox person}}? If the answer is yes for the first, then I guess a bot request can be made to check if an article that has one of the required categories has infobox person or not. If the answer is yes for the second, then maybe a tracking category can be added to the template, that checks if it is nested or not. --Gonnym (talk) 20:38, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

So, the issue is – it's probably not always that simple. If a person is primarily known for being an actor, then {{Infobox person}} (with {{Infobox musical artist}} used as a module) would be a correct. But, if they're a "singer/musician, first", and an "actor, second" (e.g. Joss Stone), then I'd say {{Infobox musical artist}} could the correct one to use (though I note that even Lady Gaga uses {{Infobox person}} with {{Infobox musical artist}} used as a module...).

Thus, what I can tell you is that the articles for people that use {{Infobox musical artist}} as the "primary" infobox and have |occupation=singer, actor/actress will include some of the problematic articles, but would also include articles that are probably correct using {{Infobox musical artist}} as the main infobox... So this probably doesn't help much at all, does it? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:55, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Nope, does not help. Code works in black and white (a Boolean) it is either true or false. If you can give me a scenario that always happens, I can see if we can make it work, but if not, there is nothing automatic about it. --Gonnym (talk) 21:01, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

OK, I'll try to start looking for commonalities, to see if something can be done... Failing that, I'll probably have to start my own "manual" list of these, because I keep coming across articles like this, where I don't feel like fixing the infobox issue when I come across it... and then I forget the articles at which it was an issue! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:06, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

FYI

Can you look at the bottom of User talk:AnomieBOT before... ? Hhkohh (talk) 10:12, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

@Hhkohh: Oh sorry, I didn't even realize. I was told that they should be subset and not deprecated. Should I revert all changes? --Gonnym (talk) 10:14, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I think there are two choices: either add them to User:AnomieBOT/TemplateSubster force temporarily to let bot continue substing or just remove |auto=yes from these templates (change from {{subst only|auto=yes}} to {{subst only}}) Hhkohh (talk) 10:23, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I think I'll remove the auto-yes part, as I don't know what the exact guidelines are for the use of AnomieBot. Thanks for letting me know of this issue, hope I didn't cause too much annoyance with this. --Gonnym (talk) 10:25, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I just see DannyS712 (talk · contribs) helping subst these templates Hhkohh (talk) 10:26, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

@Hhkohh: Thank god for AWB - I've also filed Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/DannyS712 bot 5 to help with this in the future. Do you want me to keep substing the ones listed at AnomieBOT's talk? --DannyS712 (talk) 10:28, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

DannyS712, I will let Gonnym decide whether these templates should continue being substing or not Hhkohh (talk) 10:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

A lot of these templates were nominated for deletion but were reverted, when I asked what to do with them at User talk:BrownHairedGirl#Template:WikiProject Botswana, I was told by @Amakuru that they should all be marked as subst only (based on Wikipedia:Templates for_discussion/Log/2017 July 19#Template:WikiProject Tanzania). He was referring to the Africa templates only, but I used that same rational to the other countries. So I think the proper thing is the subst. Please correct me if I'm wrong. --Gonnym (talk) 10:41, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gonnym: Well I'll keep substing them until someone objects --DannyS712 (talk) 10:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Gonnym, why not add these to User:AnomieBOT/TemplateSubster force to let bot do subst? Hhkohh (talk) 10:51, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm just not sure how to proceed with that as I have only one TfD discussion to link to and only for one template. --Gonnym (talk) 10:54, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Just like this edit see also this request case Hhkohh (talk) 10:57, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Added them all to the list. Anything else I need to do? --Gonnym (talk) 12:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

That should be all for these templates. If you're going to be auto-substing more templates in the future, please check the usage and add them to User:AnomieBOT/TemplateSubster force preemptively to avoid the bot spamming its talk page again. Thanks! Anomie⚔ 18:29, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that Anomie, I didn't even know the bot did that, I thought it was a message for the users (I copied it from another wrapper template). Will make sure if I do more that I check and add. Thanks for the info everyone. --Gonnym (talk) 18:48, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Why?!

Another fun one... [15]. Most with 1 transclusion. (I say most because I haven't checked every single one yet). *face palm* --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 23:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw some of those a while back. Those project members have hundreds of one-use templates. That is something I'm not going near. If you do go near it, make sure you read previous nominations, which I'm sure there are so you know what their arguments will be. --Gonnym (talk) 23:54, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh I've been a previous nominator... Staying away because certain members love to scream and yell about it. Definitely a case of the person who yells most gets their way. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 00:11, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Arrow (season 6) episodes

Now that the season has its own article, can you please re-target the episodes using AWB? --Kailash29792 (talk) 07:20, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Done! --Gonnym (talk) 09:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

An WP:AWB request

Gonnym – when you get the chance, can you please update all pages currently linking to The Three Musketeers (1973 film) to link to The Three Musketeers (1973 live-action film)? Then The Three Musketeers (1973 film) can be converted to a redirect to the disambig. page, as per WP:INCDAB. Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:49, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

On it! Can you move File:Three Musketeers 1974.jpg to File:Three Musketeers 1973.jpg? --Gonnym (talk) 17:59, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Since it was used on a template, a lot of links still say they point to it. Need for them to refresh, but I think I'm done. --Gonnym (talk) 18:15, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Looks like we need a WP:File mover for that. The instructions are here – Commons:File renaming. I'll put in a request... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

List of Flash Arrow characters

@Kailash29792 and Autumnking2012: I've been working to create a Flash version of List of recurring Arrow characters in my sandbox. I'm finished sorting it alphabetically, and now I'm going to go over the sources and validate what they actually give info for, fill in the story gaps and add missing sources. I do have a question for both of you - what do you think is better, to have all characters alphabetically (seen in the sandbox version A-Z) or, have all characters from the show's universe (Earth-1) sorted alphabetically by letter sections AND have characters from other earths separated (as can be seen by the bottom half of the sandbox). I'm actually leaning a bit to the Earth separation one as it seems to give more context to the characters. What do you think? --Gonnym (talk) 14:59, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorting alphabetically is a good idea. Just go for it. Kailash29792 (talk) 16:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

So the first option? --Gonnym (talk) 16:46, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Usually the parallel-Earth doppelgangers have less substantial roles and giving them separate sections seems too much.For example, E1 Hunter Zolomon appears in only one scene, so he should share a section with his more prominent E2 doppelganger. But Jay Garrick has a substantial role, so he should not share a section with Henry Allen. --Kailash29792 (talk) 04:34, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I would agree with Kailash that listing all of them alphabetically works best, with the most prominent character, regardless of Earth origin, listed, and their counterparts sharing the section. In cases of two prominent versions of the same character, give them separate listings, but keep one overall list. AutumnKing (talk) 09:10, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Ok, so one list it is. Regarding the non-primary versions, I'm a bit conflicted here. While the version of Zoom-1 version should really not have its own version as it was just less than a minute of him sitting on a bench, usually the other versions are much more prominent and are equivalent to other minor characters included in the list already. We also need to remember that the list is not a "list of actors and their roles" but a list of characters, and while they are named the same and played by the same actor, they aren't the same character. I guess it will be easier to see once the list is cleaned out more with more details and sources. --Gonnym (talk) 13:50, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Templates

Hello. "Walking" on the English Wikipedia noticed Template:Infobox sports team. Question. Will this template be further connected with templates of specific marged clubs in the future? I mean the following templates: Template:Infobox football club, Template:Infobox basketball club, Template:Infobox KHL team, Template:Infobox NHL team and others. Bogolub (talk) 17:55, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

• I have no idea. I've never taken a look at these templates to answer that, but without looking I can tell you that a lot of editors on en.wiki don't !vote with technical understanding, but with their emotions, which makes dealing with these kind of mergers very hard. --Gonnym (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Alarm für Cobra 11 – Die Autobahnpolizei season articles, revisted

OK, I believe I've now fixed all of these. (And Category:Television articles with incorrect naming style is now below 90 entries!!) However, you may want to go through these with WP:AWB and "correct" the capitalizations of all of the links, as I certainly did not catch all of the links using "(Season [x])" when going through them – I would think WP:AWB could make quick work of those, though... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:57, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Note also – I think there still might be a few "anime"(?)-type articles listed under Category:Television articles with incorrect naming style – e.g. List of Mega Man Star Force episodes (original series), List of Mega Man Star Force episodes (Tribe), List of Ojamajo Doremi (1999) episodes, List of Where Is My Friend's Home episodes (2015). FWIW. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:01, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Great job! I'm not too worries about those links using the old redirect, as we have so many of those still lying around. Wish that could be asked of a bot, but I'm sure people will use the "cosmetic" argument for that. Some guidelines I'll just never understand who the people endorsing them are. --Gonnym (talk) 19:13, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Two more obvious candidates for RMs are Double Dare and The Saturday Show. But, like I said – I've sworn off initiating RMs for a while, so it won't be me doing it... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:01, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I think I'll slowly chip away at moving what we have in the various lists until we are left with only RMs. That way it will be easier to see what really is the problem. We still have a ton of easy moves left in the various cats. --Gonnym (talk) 19:05, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Effing redirects...

I meant to tag {{volleyballbox2}}. Thanks for catching that! --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:38, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Parasparam

Hi, I just dropped an answer to your query on Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests. Regards. Kintaro (talk) 15:13, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Couldn't move it as an admin has salted the title. --Gonnym (talk) 17:29, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Template:*mp

Hi, you had added a speedy deletion request for {{*mp}}. Although it was deleted, I have undeleted it. It needs to stay because otherwise, the layouts of historical versions of WP:Selected anniversaries subpages get completely messed up. For example, without the template being there, [16] would look like...

Template:*mp 961 – The Muslim Emirate of Crete was conquered by the Byzantine Empire. Template:*mp 1447 – Tomaso Parentucelli became Pope Nicholas V. Template:*mp 1836 – Texas Revolution: Mexican forces captured the Alamo (pictured) in San Antonio from the Texans after a 13-day siege. Template:*mp 1913 – First Balkan War: The Greek army captured Bizani Fortress, near Ioannina, from the Ottomans. Template:*mp 1930 – Organized by the Communist International, hundreds of thousands of people in major cities around the world marched to protest mass unemployment associated with the Great Depression. Template:*mp 1975 – The Zapruder film of the assassination of John F. Kennedy was broadcast on television for the first time.

I even left a note on the template page itself in a noinclude block. Did you not see it? Or did you just decide to ignore it? I really don't understand the thought process here. —howcheng {chat} 17:01, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

That comment was raised in the discussion and the closing admin decided to still delete it. I'm not sure why you think it is ok as an admin to bypass the TfD result. All templates that are deleted break old revisions. So what? --Gonnym (talk) 17:19, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Because WP:IAR. That TFD entry had 3 comments on it. If I'd known about it and had been able to contribute to it, who knows how it might have turned out? Let me turn this around: Why does it matter to you if this template exists or not? —howcheng {chat} 19:40, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I've decided to clarify the situation by listing the template at TfD. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 22:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Infobox settlement wrappers

You have been involved in previous similar discussions. A new batch of wrappers has been proposed for replacement: Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 February 28#Infobox settlement wrappers 77.191.81.0 (talk) 03:01, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Redirects to Infobox settlement

I think they should all be deleted. I would not start that discussion now, but I think it should be done. Reason: If redirects exists, there is no system to prevent editors from using them and such usage is not easily detected. There are 65 as of writing, [17], but there could easily be several thousand, since there are thousands of subclasses of territorial entities and as one can see by the insonsistent naming in the list of current redirects, that can be doubled several times: e.g. word order, capitalization, usage of abbreviations etc. 78.54.186.169 (talk) 06:58, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Deletion review for Template:Puke

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Template:Puke. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 21:15, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

FTR, I can't figure out why that just can't be merged into Template:Smiley or something... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:49, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Latest WP:AWB request

Gonnym – could you please update all of the links currently pointing to Love Thy Neighbour to Love Thy Neighbour (1972 TV series), please?... Once that's done, Love Thy Neighbour can be properly redirected to the WP:DABPAGE at Love Thy Neighbor as per WP:INCDAB. Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:48, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

• Done Love Thy Neighbour, Love Thy Neighbour (TV series) and Love Thy Neighbor (TV series) (also Love Thy Neighbour (UK TV series) is empty). Also moved the list of episode articles. --Gonnym (talk) 10:59, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
  • And  Done – all 4 of those have now been retargeted to the WP:DABPAGE as per WP:INCDAB. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:24, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Aircraft spec templates

Should you not be nominating for merging with Template:Aircraft specs, per the discussion? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I mistakenly placed the wrong one as the names are too similar. I think I've fixed those now. --Gonnym (talk) 13:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Template:List of rivers of Tajikistan

• Template:List of rivers of Tajikistan (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Do you believe that this template is now safe from deletion?--Dthomsen8 (talk) 11:53, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

• It depends on the outcome of the TfD, but I'd say it would be kept. Once it is though, please add it to all the articles it links to, as that was part of the reason it was nominated in the first place. --Gonnym (talk) 13:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Double Dare (Nickelodeon game show)#Requested move 5 March 2019

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Double Dare (Nickelodeon game show)#Requested move 5 March 2019. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:56, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

There's a new RM on this one, if you care... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:45, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Update: A tie-breaker vote is still needed here. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:40, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

ping notification

I think I did something wrong and you might not have gotten pinged with my 03:32, 1 April 2019 (UTC) post at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_March_28#Template:Members_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_from_New_York--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:35, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

A Certain Magical Index (season 1) RM discussion

Gonnym, it looks like the discussion was completely ignored in the closing of this RM. It looks like there's two options: either contact User:wbm1058, and ask wbm1058 to reevaluate the close-moves. Or one of us can just move the season 2 and 3 articles to the correct disambiguation, as per WP:NCTV, ourselves... Which option would you prefer? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:41, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

I think its worth contacting him. While he did close it, someone else moved the pages hours earlier. --Gonnym (talk) 19:13, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Who should do the honors – you or me? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:28, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Did it. --Gonnym (talk) 19:59, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Based on what wbm1058 says, we should probably just move them ourselves. We can reference the discussion on wbm1058's page (and this one) as justification. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:53, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Sure, sounds good. Do you know which one is a better option? --Gonnym (talk) 20:55, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm going to go with "season 1", "season 2", etc. as we both preferred that disambiguation (as "standard" under NCTV). The problem with "I", "II", "III" is that I doubt it's universally used. (And, if it is, let somebody open another RM on that, and present evidence...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:28, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

 Done. Again, it either needs to be A Certain Magical Index (season 1), A Certain Magical Index (season 2) & A Certain Magical Index (season 3) – which is what I went with as the "better" WP:NCTV option – or it needs to be A Certain Magical Index I, A Certain Magical Index II & A Certain Magical Index III. If somebody wants to argue that the latter is correct, then let them do so in another WP:RM... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Query about a history-merge

• See User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Move request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:38, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Weakest Link (Hong Kong)

I'm requesting that you keep an eye on this one – this is one of the several Weakest Link articles we previously discussed that were not notable for standalone articles, so I converted to redirects. Now the editor primary responsible for this "article" keeps reverting the conversion to redirect with no explanation, and no real attempt to improve the article... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:59, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Big Brother sidebars

Hey Gonnym its been a while! I just created Celebrity Big Brother (U.S. TV series) but instead of using they typical sidebar I used {{Infobox television}} which I think looks a lot better and really captures more information about the show.[18] I also followed MOS:TV with this edition as well. Your thoughts? Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 15:29, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

I of course hate the sidebars, as can be seen from my recent clean up to our progress sandbox. So yeah, {{Infobox television}} is definitely the way to go with the series level articles. Hopefully I'll be done by tomorrow with the clean up so we can more easily see what is left. Also, welcome back! --Gonnym (talk) 15:34, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Finished updating the list. I've marked in red pages with issues. If you agree that the sidebar should go, then the next step is TfD and hope it passes. Some articles seem a mess because they have a few seasons in them. If we are keeping all that season information anyways, then its best to just split it into a proper season article. If we don't want a season article, then the tables need to be cut and replaced with a short season prose summary. There are also some minor issues with correct infobox formatting but I didn't mark those as those would be too much to list. --Gonnym (talk) 12:39, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the list! Defiantly makes it easier to see what needs to be done. I think the moment the sidebars go to TfD they wouldn't survive but its best we have replacements ready in a sandbox so we can immediately replace them. Celebrity Big Brother (U.S. TV series) pretty much shows that they are not needed and that {{Infobox television}} is the way to go here. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 03:05, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Where did TfD linking go wrong?

So I noticed the link to the {{Copyright-EU}} discussion in the TfD talk header template were broken. This was caused by DannyS712's edit here where one of the discussions was relisted, but XfDCloser updated both of the links; this could probably be considered a minor bug, since I would expect it to give a warning when multiple links are matched for updating (I haven't used XfDCloser, so I may be mistaken).

This led me to notice the links were imperfectly targeted originally, where Twinkle added a link to the section "Template:Intellectual property laws of the European Union", while the edit summary displayed a better targeted link to the section "Template:Copyright-EU" (I haven't used Twinkle, but the inconsistency between edit summary and header template seems odd to me.)

Interestingly, the link still works even though it didn't use the section title's name, but it targets to the template's name in the bulleted list. I can only surmise {{tfd links}} must add an anchor.

It might have been better if both discussions were relisted both related discussions simultaneously. Then again, maybe they should have been proposed together to begin with to avoid process cruft like this. But it's also always possible I misunderstand Wikipedia processes. e^πi (talk | contribs) 01:26, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

No idea why Twinkle does that, I guess it was just never setup to handle multiple different discussions regarding the same template. --Gonnym (talk) 10:21, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Infobox South African municipality

You took part in Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 March 4#Template:Infobox South African town and might be interested in Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 April 3#Template:Infobox South African municipality. 78.55.48.152 (talk) 01:48, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Town was running from 4 to 11 March. Municipality now open since one month. Last in continental Africa. 77.11.165.40 (talk) 20:36, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

"By country" RM's

Per this, did I leave any out?... Thanks. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:36, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I'll see if I can remember any. --Gonnym (talk) 08:05, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Remind me again what was the RM history tool. That will make my life easier as I can't remember any past RM. --Gonnym (talk) 08:09, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

It's generally broken. If it worked, it would be great. But every time I've tried it, it goes back only about 1–3 months, and no further. So I don't think it'd help... It definitely would be nice if there was a way to search just RM's. Probably the only "back up" option would be to use "Edit summary search" under User contributions, and specifically search for "Requested move" on Talk pages (only) – but even that won't be 100% effective as it won't catch when an editor launched an RM request... Anyway, I was only asking in case you could think of an obvious one I missed, so no worries. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:23, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Here are a few I could find with that search: Talk:Spider-Man (Japanese TV series)#Requested move 9 August 2018, Talk:Backstage (Canadian TV series)#Requested move 29 October 2018, Talk:Paradox (UK TV series)#Requested move 3 January 2019 and Talk:Happy Together (U.S. TV series)#Requested move 3 January 2019. --Gonnym (talk) 13:01, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Infobox German location

What do you think about renaming it to Infobox German place, to match section name and Australian place and UK place in Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Geography and place#Place? One talks of place names not location names. Also, the language might be more precise, a "place" has a "location". Later Infobox settlement could be changed to Infobox place. 89.14.34.135 (talk) 13:31, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

• The naming style should be decided other way around. Template talk:Infobox settlement#Requested move 28 February 2019 which was badly started but came up with a few good options, which I think Infobox locality had the most support and would be the best option at a new RM. The correct way to do this would first to get the main template moved to a more correct name, then move the others per WP:CONSISTENCY. --Gonnym (talk) 13:43, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

  Agree with badly started because I know how WP discussion can go, one better presents issues like for pre-schoolers. "locality [...] best option at a new RM" - why? In Wikipedia "place" seems to be the established term:

  1. Place name origins
  2. Category:Places
  3. Category:Place names
  4. Category:Place name disambiguation pages

  etc. Regarding procedure: outside WP in a scientific environment I would agree. But here, I am not sure. It might be more effective to first have three 10000+ templates using that term. 77.13.82.51 (talk) 15:21, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

  • The reason why it is the best option is based on the discussions. If you read that thread you'll see that locality had the most supporters. I personal dislike place, as it is ambiguous. Is an "Infobox place" also for a mountain? What about a restaurant or a landmark? Basically, anything can be a place, which makes it a bad name for an infobox. --Gonnym (talk) 15:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
    • "most supporters" in a "discussion" is just one way of determining "best". I prefer to vote for a name that is the best based on the English language and common practice and policies in the English Wikipedia. "Infobox place" would be for any place as long as for the type of the place there doesn't exist a more specific infobox, which in case of a mountain exists: {{Infobox mountain}}. I think this is common practice, e.g. Infobox person is used as long as there is not a more specific infobox. Regarding the term "locality" - it could be to narrow: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/locality . RE "anything can be a place" - anything that physically exists. Would science be a place? 78.55.45.190 (talk) 16:56, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
      • Please don't try and convince me. I don't decide names and I told you what I prefer and what I don't - you won't change it, especially if you are going to try and use stupid examples which you know I didn't mean. Go start a RM and see what happens. --Gonnym (talk) 17:19, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

        "Please don't try" - what? "convince me" - of what? "I don't decide names" - your recent page moves of infobox templates suggest otherwise. 77.191.55.237 (talk) 19:38, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

        "use stupid examples which you know I didn't mean" - what do you refer to? Why are you switching to this negativity and aggressiveness? 77.191.218.203 (talk) 18:19, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Incomplete dab

Re: Spygate (conspiracy theory)... just FYI, there are times when it's okay to target an article with an incomplete disambiguation. That's why {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} reads as it does... "Such titles should redirect to an appropriate disambiguation page (or section of it), or to a more complete disambiguation." Best to you! Paine Ellsworth, ed.  ^put'r there  06:40, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Cycling

In fact, a few number of people try to impeach the use of datas from Wikidata on EN Wiki. So since four year they use different stratagemes. This is the last. If they prefer having small articles, OK, but they penalize the huge number of reader and this is not normal. You can see a difference between fr:Grand Prix de Denain 2018 and 2018 Grand Prix de Denain. And we have an article for the fr:Grand Prix de Denain 2019, it is not the case here. Thanks to our system, the Wikipedias have bigger articles, more liable, and they are automaticaly updated when the race occur, one person do the work for everybody. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 08:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the context of this discussion is, but the wider community consensus is not against bigger articles if the information there is relevant and verified with sources. Can you please explain the issue? --Gonnym (talk) 10:00, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the late. The issue is there are less articles about some races on EN Wiki (an international language, it is the major point) where datas are already on Wikidata. Thus, on Wikidata, we are also deprived of contributors who could make updates to us who would return here through the algorithms. It is a more wider problem. For numerous datas, the fact we are not able to concentrate all efforts via Wikidata is a problem : in France, we will have elections for 35000 communes in less than one year and updates will be a problem. It is already a problem, see Hélesmes where the mayor dies. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 07:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

TfD for Infobox Shakespearean character

I would have appreciated a notice at WP:BARD (or my talk page directly as the last, iirc, to edit it) for the TfD nom for Infobobox Shakespearean character so that those with an actual interest in it would have had a chance to comment. As it was I didn't see that until your bot run to remove it just now. Now, as it happens I had previously concluded that that infobox as it stood was relatively pointless and caused more problems than it solved, and might well have ended up !voting to delete (merge) it; but either way I'm a bit miffed to be presented with a fait accompli decided without giving me a chance to at least be heard. Just sayin´. --Xover (talk) 09:59, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• Sorry you didn't see it, but I've followed the procedural as required by notifying User talk:George D. Watson#Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox Shakespearean character and by placing a tag on the template, which appeared on the template itself, all 80~ pages it was used on, and all 7.5k~ pages {{Infobox character}} was used on. Since the template is also tagged with {{WikiProject Shakespeare}} it should have appeared at Wikipedia:WikiProject Shakespeare#Article Alerts, but your projects alerts aren't working. I'm sorry if you feel you were left out of the discussion, but I'm not required (nor is it logical to expect) going over the edit history and notifying each and every person there, more so when your 3 edits are pretty minimal compared to other editors of that template. --Gonnym (talk) 10:27, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
  • See this thread for why there was no article alert in this case. I had assumed TfD just wasn't supported; but it turns out the bot just hadn't picked up {{tfm}} (vs. {{tfd}}) yet.
    And no complaint about your adherence to procedure. What I'm saying is that deleting stuff like this isn't so critical that there's any particular hurry in getting it done; but when people who care about whatever it is that's up at a XfD first find out about it by way of the deletion log, or an AWB run removing it, it will tend to upset them even if they would have agreed at the TfD. Going a bit above and beyond in notifying those who might care would avoid needlessly aggravating the natives. And I wasn't claiming any great contribution to that template, it was just a suggestion for one possible way to identify "people who might care and would appreciate a ping".
    In any case, I realise now you were (or so I assume) relying on the article alerts bot to notify relevant WikiProjects, and certainly couldn't have known that it didn't handle this particular scenario. --Xover (talk) 16:09, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
    • Good call on asking about it, I didn't even realize that the article alerts were missing those. To be honest with you, over the past year or so, I either nominated or was part of deletion discussions for around 32 fictional character/race/element infobox templates which all resulted in deletion. Some of the more popular had a lot of participation, but most had minimal, and their template's edit history usually showed no activity. Even for this template, the limited documentation (which was only an example infobox, not an actual documentation) missed more than half of the parameters the template had in the code. From my experience this usually means that the template has no maintainers. Again, sorry you didn't get a chance to voice your opinion on this, but I hope the outcome isn't something too awful to live with. As a side note - there were a lot of mixed usage in parameters with |see_also= and |source= sometimes used for the same thing and other times for stuff completely different. If a character is based on something previous, make sure those articles use |based_on= with {{based_on}}. --Gonnym (talk) 16:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
      • Yeah, you weren't wrong: the template wasn't maintained, had no docs, and was broken in several ways. My few edits were an attempt to start to fix it, but it was clearly too much effort for too little gain. I may take a stab at it again at some point in the future (Shakespeare characters have some unique attributes that are relevant, and some special sourcing requirements), but probably not until there's better infrastructure for making such infoboxes without creating the kind of mess the old template was. --Xover (talk) 17:43, 7 May 2019 (UTC)