Hellswasteland

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{{Archive box|*Archive 1 : May 2007 ~ June 2007

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Greg Bownds

Extra time beyond July 18 may be required to obtain proof of notability. That's why I removed the tags. Australian wrestling sources are much harder to find than US and that does need to be taken into account. If you wouldn't mind. Mal Case 05:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

That's fine, I'll give some more time for you to fix it. It needs proper sourcing & references from legitimate sources to prove the notability, as well as become wikified in order to be wiki-worthy. Take the tag off if you have not already done so, and I'll watch it. Deletion is not really wikipedia's goal or mine, however you must understand we can not have people adding unsourced information for a potential non-notable person, place, or thing. Hellswasteland 13:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I've added some secondary sources for you to some parts. The Dragon Gate website is in Japanese which affects the ability to provide sources for information relating to that - that's the only issue we have at the moment (I got help with the sources). Mal Case 05:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

AWF

I'm sorry, but if you are saying that World Series Wrestling's relationship with AWF doesn't make the AWF notable, then you should be nominating the WSW article for deletion as well. But you haven't. I'll leave the tag for now - but I want to know why it doesn't make it notable. It does! Mad Dog Dunstan 03:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Hate to butt in here, but one source doesn't make an article. You need more. Greg Bownds is the owner of the AWF - I think you should make use of that. As well as the IA link. Mal Case 05:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Well now some guy called Maxim has taken the dates literally and deleted it! I've asked him to put it back. It's not fair! Mad Dog Dunstan 04:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Hellswasteland, it appears that Maxim might be in no position to respond to the request to reverse the deletion on the grounds that five days for this article isn't long enough. Do you have any other suggestions? As Greg Bownds owns the promotion, and his notability has now been established, I think we can use this to rescue the AWF article. Mal Case 06:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I had mentioned to Mad Dog to copy the article and re-open it into his/her sandbox. If noone has copied it, then it needs to be remade from scratch. If an article is going to take awhile to reference or prove notability, then it should be created in a sandbox and kept there until it is ready to be posted by wikipedia standards. If an article is posted prematurely, chances are it will either be deleted again or nominated for permanent deletion. Better yet, considering the school/fed may not be notable on it's own you can merge it with the Greg Bownds article making it one. That is probably the best bet actually, because I really think it will get deleted on it's own. Then add the name of the fed to a re-direct to Greg Bownds. Hope that helps you out. Hellswasteland 13:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I have no doubt the AWF is notable. Proving it is the problem though. I'll speak to Curse of Fenric who no longer edits here regularly but is a friend of mine and would have the best idea of sources. I don't know that including it in the Greg Bownds article would work - given that the cheif notability for him is the fact that he's worked in Japan (which has nothing to do with the AWF fed).

I'm not sure, but Mad Dog Dunstan may just be a fan of the AWF and being new to Wikipedia he might not have acted in the way you suggested. Wrestling fans can be like that in Australia. Dedicated, but WP technology isn't easy. The rules here aren't for everyone either. I know that's why Curse stopped editing and started a Wiki of his own. If Mad Dog didn't save it, and I'm right - he might not be able to create it from scratch. Even my knowledge is pretty basic although it's good. Curse may be better at creating it from scratch, but I don't think he's about to do Wikipedia any favours himself. Can you grab the deleted article and lump it into my sandbox if Mad Dog didn't? Mal Case 05:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I can't grab the deleted article, but perhaps the admin who deleted it can. I think it is most probably history if it had not been saved. I warned Mad Dog, and I told him he should copy it. I guess it lies with him now. Also, not for nothing but for anything or anyone that is notable you should be able to find references or sources whether it be on websites, magazines, books, etc. Don't take this the wrong way, but I really doubt the notability of the federation and the wrestler to be honest. If the claim to notability is working in Japan, that does not make him notable. Hundreds of wrestlers go and work in Japan, they are not all up here on WP. Regardless, in the spirit of wiki I chose not to enforce the prod I had stuck up to give the opportunity to improve on the article, and prove notability. I would think that eventually, an admin will wind up killing the Greg Bownds article. I believe that the notability factor may be a little stronger if you add the federation to the Bownds article because at very least it would make it stronger. Hellswasteland 13:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

One of the reason Curse of Fenric stopped editing was because of the notability issue. He called it "applying US standards to other countries" which he called unfair and discriminatory. Local notability does need to be taken into account. For example, not many wrestlers from Australia make it to Japan. Greg apparently opened a lot of doors for a number of other wrestlers to try their luck there this year. Greg also got a couple of Japanese wrestlers to come here, which no one else in Australia can claim. Curse also told me that the AWF article can stand on it's own - it just needs sources which he says he can find but it will take some time as it involves scouring newspapers from different areas. Curse said that the AWF ran a tour called "Psychotic Slam" which was ground breaking for Australian wrestling at the time. The wrestlers invited are included in the Greg Bownds article. It may be that the AWF is the only Australian based fed that has travelled outside it's own state/region. Curse also tried to apply WP:IAR to counter these issues - to no avail. I'm more patient than he is, but it does raise a number of problems re the accuracy of Wikipedia.

I note that Mad Dog hasn't been back yet. You're right - if he hasn't recorded the article we have a problem, unless Maxim is able to assist out of the deletion log. Mal Case 05:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Warning for civility

Replies like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Professional_wrestling_aerial_techniques&diff=148201364&oldid=148198095 are not acceptable. You have no right to lambast people for asking questions when they are being perfectly civil. This violates numerous policies on Wikipedia. Please watch your replies more carefully next time. - Timber99 - Timber99 05:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Can You Help Me?

Hi Hellswasteland, I know you are aware of the dispute that went on about the Iconoclasm, and XiBalba on Aerial Techniques. After the long ridiculous debate, I renamed the move a Top Rope Flipping Slam as per your suggestion, and catagorized three moves underneath it in alphabetical order to be fair (Fall From Grace, Iconoclasm, and XiBalba). I re-wrote it all again to ensure wikibility, and I referenced the moves (which might I add almost nothing is references on many of these pages). The account Timber99 was created right after I made the original change on the other page, and has made no other edits except to fight about this move or complain about myself or you you! Now all of a sudden, User:Lid is pulling a similar stunt where I moved everything (Professional Wrestling Throws). My references are a story written on the wrestler from Wrestling Then & Now magazine, as well as an interview with the wrestler Brimstone. The ONLY references for the Iconoclasm are fan sites! There are no references that show this move as created by the wrestler CIMA. A lot of things concern me with this whole situation, from users to lack of proper referencing. On wiki, the claim with proper citation should stand, not an unreferenced piece of work or a poorly referenced work. Regardless, I need help. If this can not be resolved, then the whole move should come off until more referencing can be found. Now all of a sudden, Timber99 is responding to my plea to User:Spartaz. I am feeling as though something is going on here, and I am not going to accuse... however people can put two and two together WrestlefnLI 15:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This was a response I left after Timber responded again.

Evan Ginsberg who has been a part of the wrestling business for many many years puts out Wrestling Then & Now. He is extremely reputable in the business, and is an agent for many former superstars including Johnny Valiant. If you would like more information on his reputability, then feel free to either look him up for real, or chack out these links http://www.evanginzburg.com/ , http://www.riotradionetwork.com/index.php?view=getshow&show=Evan%20Ginzburgs%20Legends , and http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling3/thenandnow/ . I am sure that you can find plenty of reliable references on him if you would like to look. Here are two seperate sources from an extremely reliable source MAKING Evan & Wrestling Then & Now a reliable source http://www.mediaman.com.au/interviews/ginzburg.html & http://www.mediaman.com.au/articles/wrestling_then.html . Media Man Greg Tingle is a major source of reliable and notable information. I believe I have answered Timber99's question beyond a shadow of a doubt, where can I go from here? WrestlefnLI 15:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

User:WrestlefnLI vs. User:Timber99

Just to let you know... This dispute has been sent to the Request for Mediation page. -Fall Of Darkness 04:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

It's only going to be a brief visit, some things needed to be addressed but I've got a couple of articles to write while I'm here though. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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New deal for page patrollers

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