HisVic

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Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Chani Nattan

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A tag has been placed on Draft:Chani Nattan, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. CUPIDICAE💕 15:20, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

January 2021

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add promotional or advertising material to Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:12, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I did see your note on the talk page of the deleted article. First, references are necessary. There was a lot of promotional language: He is well known... ("well known" according to what reliable and independent source? That certainly requires a citation), He is also an endearing... (don't use fluff terms like "endearing"), who provides meals and comic relief... (don't use fluff like "comic relief", if someone does comedy, just say they do comedy; don't use fluff), breaking the previous record... (a claim of something like breaking a record must have a source), and then the end of the article included links to Twitter and YouTube profiles which articles should not contain. Wikipedia articles must be strictly neutral, not "talk up" anyone or anything, and not encourage readers to go to social media links. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:18, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

REPLY:

I really appreciate your feedback. It's my first article. Thanks. I'll correct it.

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you removed a speedy deletion tag from Draft:Chani Nattan, a page you have created yourself. If you believe the page should not be deleted, you may contest the deletion by clicking on the button that says: Contest this speedy deletion which appears inside the speedy deletion notice. This will allow you to make your case on the talk page. Administrators will consider your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. Thank you. Ashleyyoursmile! 14:02, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to remove speedy deletion notices from pages you created yourself, as you did at Draft:Chani Nattan, you may be blocked from editing. — Amkgp 💬 14:57, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you remove a speedy deletion notice from a page you have created yourself, as you did at Draft:Chani Nattan. — Amkgp 💬 13:36, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Chani Nattan (January 26)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Amkgp were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Chani Nattan and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Chani Nattan, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

— Amkgp 💬 11:17, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Chani Nattan

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Draft:Chani Nattan, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. CUPIDICAE💕 14:36, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Your edits

Greetings. I saw a report at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism asking for your account to be blocked as a purely promotional account. I can't say I disagree, but I wanted to discuss this with you. To date, you have thrice created Draft:Chani Nattan and it has been deleted twice as unambiguous advertising. It is tagged again for speedy deletion under the same WP:CSD#G11 criteria, and it is likely to be deleted again. If it is, it will likely be salted against recreation. Three times now you have removed speedy deletion requests from the draft [1][2][3], with the last of these being done after you were warned not to do this [4]. Your editing is disruptive, and you obviously have a very strong vested interest in promoting this person. You appear to have a single purpose in being here, that of attempting to promote Chani Nattan. You need to understand that Wikipedia is not a means of promotion. While I grant that Chani Nattan is a musician, his footprint in the music industry is very small. You need to read WP:NMUSICIAN. Please, stop trying to work against our policies and guidelines and start working with us. If you continue to edit as you have, it is very likely you will be blocked. You can consider this a final warning.

I also strongly warn you that referring to other editors here as "childish" is a direct violation of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. This behavior must end. If you have questions, let me know. Thanks, --Hammersoft (talk) 17:44, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

(moving conversation here from my talk page to keep conversation together. --Hammersoft)

• Hammersoft, thank you for looking into the issue. First of all, I should say the first speedy deletion request got deleted by mistake. The second one is on me. The third one I deleted because one of the users who have been following the page since the beginning messed with my source text which I had to recover from a backup. I apologize for my comment. It's been a tough time with this page.

  As I've disclosed and possibly have been reviewed by you, I'm a paid contributor for this article. This is my only Wikipedia account. That doesn't necessarily mean I won't contribute to Wikipedia in the near future from my own. I'm just a beginner for now. I appreciate how hard the volunteers are working to keep all these pages up to date and correct.

  I really want to mention some of the pages my speedy deletion requesters have created, some of them don't even have 200 Words. I know I shouldn't say this because they are so much experienced than me.

  Some of the colleagues of my employer have approved pages with fewer mentions and achievements. But then again that doesn't necessarily mean my draft is better than their page. I thank you for your time and patience. I'm currently removing one complete paragraph of my draft page because it sort of looks like personal advertising and working on updating the page with verified information only. I sincerely request you to review the page in a a day or two again and provide me with any advice whatsoever. I'll keep working on it in the meantime.— Preceding unsigned comment added by HisVic (talk • contribs)

• With respect, you haven't made a paid editing disclosure for Chani Nattan. You've made a paid editing disclosure for Upwork. This creates an entirely different scenario. If I have this correctly, Chani Nattan (via Upwork) is paying you to create an article about him. Is this correct? If that is the case, you should disclose this before conducting any more editing by modifying the disclosure statement on your userpage to be like this: {{paid|employer=[[Upwork]]|client=Chani Nattan}}.
• To the comment regarding what other people have created; there's a standard response to this at WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. It doesn't matter what others have created; it's not an argument for or against anything someone else has created. If you believe someone has created something on the project that you feel could be better, then make it better.
• My advice to you remains as above; you need to read WP:NMUSICIAN. I'm not seeing a significant footprint such that this person passes that standard. Wikipedia is not a means of promotion. If Chani Nattan truly becomes famous someday, an article will be written about him by an uninvolved, unpaid editor. That's how things are usually done here, to the tune of 6+ million articles. Chani Nattan attempting to pay someone to get an article written about them is most emphatically not how we do things around here.
• I understand why Chani Nattan wants an article about him on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is one of the top ten websites in the world, and having an article about him here would be a feather in his cap. But, you don't become famous because you have a Wikipedia article. You have a Wikipedia article because you are famous. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:35, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• Hammersoft, Let me get something clear. Chani Nattan is not my employer. He and I have no connection in any way. I was hired by a marketplace and I looked into him and other similar Wikipedia articles before taking on the project as well as musician notability and Wiki publishing guidelines. I agree that the wording may seem slightly promotional. I am working on the rewriting process. I think you'll change your mind afterwards because he's kind of a major player in the specified music industry.

WP:NMUSICIAN states may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria I noticed multiple criteria's already met. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HisVic (talk • contribs)

• Please sign your posts. To WP:NMUSICIAN; I disagree. Not that I'm the final arbiter, as I'm not. But, I don't see it. But, feel free to continue to develop the draft. It's not causing any harm. I'm not going to delete it, though another administrator may. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

With this edit you removed a prior AfC submission decline. Yet, the line clearly says "Do not remove this line!" Is there something unclear about this? I've re-added it. Please do not remove the line again. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:02, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I have also re-disabled the categories on that draft [5] after you re-enabled them [6] after they were previously disabled [7]. Please read WP:DRAFTCAT. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 17:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Reply: Thank you HisVic (talk) 17:26, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

February 2021

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, discussion pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at User talk:Amkgp, is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Even making spelling and grammatical corrections in others' comments is generally frowned upon, as it tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. — Amkgp 💬 17:13, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Chani Nattan (February 3)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Praxidicae were:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Chani Nattan and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Chani Nattan, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

CUPIDICAE💕 18:18, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Your paid editing

I've deleted Draft:Chani Nattan and protected it from recreation. The sources were clearly promotional copy, not independent reliable sources.

You need to clarify your paid editing situation. You initially said you were "paid by Upwork on behalf of Gary Gill for their contributions to Wikipedia" then changed this to "John Carter". You've claimed this has nothing to do with Nattan, but you've tried to get that draft published three times now and you've made no other substantial contributions to Wikipedia.

Please explain the nature of the contract and link to the Upwork entry. Fences&Windows 18:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fences and windows: I was not updating the draft because I was working on the sources and re-writing process after getting advices from a few users. I suddenly logged in and saw your notification. As for the payment, I was paid via upwork for the page which I disclosed rather than keeping it a secret. I'm new at Wikipedia. I was looking at some articles and though they might need to improvements. Just not had the time to make adjustments. But I look forward to contribute to Wikipedia from my own. I sincerely request you to recreate the draft page for me so that I can write the page from an encyclopedic point of view with updated and corrected sources and references before submitting. HisVic (talk) 20:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

No, you need to stop trying to create an article on this subject. You claim to have picked this article yourself, but why would anyone pay you, a brand new editor, through Upwork to create whatever articles you decide on? Why would you be so insistent on creating this particular article. What you are saying is not credible.

Please note that the Wikimedia Foundation requires "Paid editors must also provide links on their Wikipedia user page to all active accounts at websites where they advertise, solicit or obtain paid Wikipedia-editing services." See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure. You have not done this. Fences&Windows 20:29, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

HisVic, I don't know at what point we've been unclear with you, but allow me another opportunity to clear this up. To date, Draft:Chani Nattan was deleted three times under speed deletion criteria WP:CSD#G11. I.e., it is a promotional draft. The draft was also declined for inclusion in the project twice by two different editors. It was deleted by three different administrators under the same G11 criteria. This happened on January 24, January 26, and now today, February 10. Every time that you created it and recreated it, it became a promotional draft and was deleted for that reason. You've asked us to undelete the draft so you can work on it, saying that you will rewrite it from an encyclopedic view. Yet, you had more than a week to correct these issues in this latest deletion and did not do so. You've been directed before this last time it was deleted that it was promotional and you didn't correct the issues then either. In short, there is no reason to believe that this would ever become anything other than a promotional piece.

Further, as I explained on the now deleted talk page of the draft, this musician does not meet our requirements for notability under WP:NMUSICIAN nor does he meet WP:GNG. There is no compelling reason to continue with this draft, either because the person is not yet notable under our criteria or because your efforts to make it non-promotional have failed.

The issue with non-compliance with our paid editing disclosure requirements remains open, as Fences and windows noted. Lastly, as I noted before, you seem to have a single purpose in being here, that of promoting Chani Nattan. You're still doing it, in asking us to undelete this draft. That's not going happen, barring presentation of some evidence that he clearly passes WP:NMUSICIAN (and such evidence does not yet exist). So, if you want to contribute to Wikipedia in other areas, you are most welcome to do so. But, please...drop the Chani Nattan issue. It's not going anywhere. I'm sorry if this means you are not going to get paid, but Wikipedia generally takes a very dim view towards paid editing, and as you've been directed there are requirements that must be met. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 21:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)