Impru20

Results breakdown of the 2023 Spanish local elections

I've noticed that you seem to be in charge of the Spanish elections side, so my question is if there are any plans around adding more results breakdown of the 2023 Spanish local elections, considering that it's been consistently done all the way up to the 1979 ones. For the latest w:Category:Results breakdown of the 2023 Spanish local elections, however, it's only been done for Asturias. Sincerely, 79.152.206.114 (talk) 23:20, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:2024 disestablishments in the Basque Country (autonomous community)

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2024 European Parliament election in Spain

Hi, I noticed you reverted my change to the opinion poll table in this article. Please note that this table is transcluded in Opinion polling and seat projections for the 2024 European Parliament election, where including EP groups adds clarity and consistency. Mibblepedia (talk) 14:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mibblepedia: And? Opinion polls in Spain do not ask for European affiliations at all (and indeed, some of these parties comprise various affiliations). Adding them is misleading since it leads readers into thinking that European affiliations are actually polled. All info pertaining such affiliation (currently past and, in due time, future) is shown elsewhere in the article where appropiate, so this information is not missing at all (just located where it is key). "Transclusion" alone would not merit inclusion, such transclusion is not even required by a Wikipedia policy or whatever (since you can easily link to the actual article anyway), plus you shouldn't change the transcluded text only because it fits another article. Impru20^talk 14:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Place to Discuss Major Political Editing Changes

Where does one suggest such a thing would take place? As the whole issue with whether or not pages should adopt one of two templates, I feel there should be a place where such a discussion should be held, rather than the talk page of a singular election. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 17:02, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Thing is, the issue has been discussed quite a few times (most of these at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums, I think), and it has been mostly left out as a no consensus/case-by-case issue.

The main issue I detect is that the "case-by-case" is not being attained by explicit consensus in almost any situation (i.e. a discussion on whether the infoboxes for all elections in any given country should use TIE or TILE), but rather through imposition (enforcing the edits anyway, then re-reverting those who revert the original edit). We have currently an edit warring situation in many countries, and I fear there is no single solution for all of them: consensus will have to be attained in a case-by-case basis.

It's worth noting that this has worked in some cases: there was a discussion a long time ago on UK elections where it was agreed that TILE could be used for future elections as long as they hadn't been held yet. That is why 2024 United Kingdom general election uses TILE (but will resort to using TIE once the election is held). Impru20^talk 17:20, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

God, that makes things complicated. Hmm... looks like another one is going to have to be made, or at least over all the country political talk pages for elections that use TILE without consensus. First few would be Japan (which I'm guilty of), France, Italy, and the Netherlands. Would be nice if the consensus was clear-cut, instead of being a half-way between using TILE completely or not. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 17:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Going by this conversation, would you say there was consensus to change the Italian election pages to TILE? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 17:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Quick question, as consensus has to be gained to change infoboxes, does that mean the South Korean will have to too. I changed them all the TILE last year, and now the ones since 1992 are out of step with those before it. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 09:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

In addition, it makes the 2024 election an outlier since 1992, as the alliances were very messy. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 09:28, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, answering you by parts:

It's not that complicated, really, since I think the case-by-case basis has/would have wide acceptance. But that would require a proper discussion first with the specific motives why TILE should be preferred (taking into account that the discussion at South Africa seems to have layed some firm basis on the benefits of TIE over TILE and in which cases TILE could be helpful, which are not that many).

Italy: consensus there, as per this RFC, seems to be Option 2C for most infoboxes within the scope of the RFC, which are most Italian elections after 2018. Doesn't seem there is a consensus for using TILE for elections previous to 2018, since the driving motivator for TILE in Italy was the new electoral system that entered into force in 2018.

South Korea: Yes, consensus for using TILE should be attained explicitly. For South Korea it doesn't look like it was the case, so TIE should prevail until otherwise agreed for. The same applies to 2024 (plus, I don't see the alliance system was that messy looking at the "Results" section? It looks just as if the DP and the PFP used different names, but materially it doesn't seem really difficult). Impru20^talk 09:41, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

South Africa: I can see TIE being use from 1994 onwards, as the leader of a party can become President of the country

Italy: I agree that the discussion should've started in regards to elections prior to 2018, once the 2018 and 2022 RfC concluded.

South Korea: I can see why you may say the 2024 election doesn't look difficult, but it is. Unlike the 2018 election, DPK created a coalition (party by law) for the proportional seats, which in itself had a coalition called New Progressive Alliance (a party that renamed itself from Basic Income Party, as alliances are banned by SK law (someone told me, can't remember who)). Members of DA (including NPA) competed separately in constituency seats, causing difficulty with TILE, but certainly wouldn't be able to be solved using TIE. By using TILE, it is easier to convey the results of the election than using TIE, especially when you have independents winning seats (which aren't expressed with TIE (or very rarely). ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 10:07, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Independents are typically shown together for summarizing purposes but, unless they expressly act like so, they shouldn't be treated as an unitary group. So, justifying using TILE in order to acommodate independents is not really an argument. Infoboxes are meant as summaries, they are meant to make things easier for readers, not to complicate them further. For everything else, the issue is really easy to resolve: through consensus. There hasn't been a consensus of any kind to impose TILE in such a general way (and may never be outside of specific cases), which is what is causing the current disruption. Impru20^talk 10:41, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

What do you think of these as a compromise? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 16:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)