Jirka6

WikiProject Czech Republic

Zakládáme WikiProject Czech Republic, možná bys mohl mít zájem, podívej se prosím [1] a hlasuj pro vytvoření. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 10:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject

Projekt byl uspesne spusten: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Czech_Republic. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 12:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Gregor Mendel - apropos the category you added

What do you mean by saying those were "Czech Lands"? For those regions and this time of Europe you can say Bohemian Land, Silesian Land etc. there was no "Czech Kingdom", or am I mistaken? At Mendel's time it politically belonged to the Austrian Empire. There were of course Germans, Czechs, Poles, etc. living in those regions – can you name some of Mendel's ancestors who were ethnic Czechs? Otherwise the category "Czech biologist" is simply not correct.
Regards, 217.236.219.243 21:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not have Mendel's biography with me right now for the ancestry, but you can find it in (Orel 1996), he cites researchers who dug through the birth records. Mendel was mostly ethically German, but 1/4 or 1/3 or so of his ancestry was Slavic. I do not think this is that important. You can say that Mendel was Czech-Austrian or Czech-German simply based on the fact that he spent his nearly entire life in the Czech Lands.

I do not see a reason why Moravia and Silezia would not be part of Czech Lands (the Lands of the Czech Crown), Franz Joseph was the king of Bohemia which made him automatically the ruler of Moravia (if I am not mistaken).

Just take a look at what I wrote in the discussion of Mendel's article. The Encyclopedia Britannica considers Mendel to be Austrian – furthermore Heinzendorf belonged to the Austrian Empire. You don't consider Franz Joseph I of Austria to be Czech, do you?

Why should Franz Joseph be Czech?

What do other biographers say about Mendel's ancestry? – and furthermore are you willing to change the labelling for those people who are now only called Czech to German-Czech when you apply the same standard you are now applying to Mendel? Strangely enough this only seems to be a one-way road.

217.236.242.57 14:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Are there some people labeled as Czech and should not be? Personally I do not understand how can Mendel not be labeled as Czech-German, but if you want to label him as Eskimo, go ahead, I am out of this.

Well, like it was argued, there was a lot of "interaction" (quote) and it was inferred, that "simple national classification is likely to be misleading" (quote). I have not heard of anybody who dug (like you said) through birth records of somebody who spoke Czech but lived in an area with such a mixed population and is labeled Czech today, to find out whether another attribute should be added – there you have the one-way road.

And again – I think calling Mendel "Czech-German" or even "a Czech botanist" is like calling Kant "Russian-German" or "a Russian philosopher"– simply wrong. 217.236.235.197 19:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Re birth record: Did you check the reference I gave you?

Czech-German (Deutschboehme) was a common label for ethnic Germans living in Czech lands. Mendel was one of them.

Re Kant: this comparison simply does not work. The places were Mendel was born, lived and died were part of Czech Lands for centuries before . East Prussia became part after WWII.

Simply calling those regions "Czech Lands" does not work. Do you seriously believe that Gregor Mendel himself considered himself to live in "Czech Lands"? If you take this wrong premise as basis for your inferences – you can label EVERY German whose hometown is the Czechia today Czech. Are you serious about that?

And I think it's really funny that you consider "Boehme" in "Deutschböhme" as simply Czech. Do you know that Hitler was back then and is also by many historians today called the "böhmische Gefreite"? I bet you don't want to add a category labeling Hitler as Czech, do you? I would like to know.

217.236.210.204 13:32, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

PS No I could not check that reference. Have you looked at what other biographers wrote? Is there a consensus to call Mendel Czech? If there is Encyclopedia Britannica has not heard of it – they call Mendel Austrian.

PPS For the reasons I mentioned the comparison with Kant does work - the main reason to retroactively give new nationalities to Germans is, that the region where they lived is located in a another state today. Kant has just for too long been known and to too many people as a German philosopher - that's why nobody thinks of it in this case.

"Der Böhmische Gefreite" is one of Hitler's nickname. (I think it is attributed to Hindenburg who thought that Hitler had been born in Branau in Czechia and not in Braunau am Inn.) And yes, I think it should be mentioned in an article about Hitler, but how would that warrant labeling Hitler as Czech?

I do not know whether Mendel said he lives in Czech Lands, we would need to have a look. But even if he did not say that, he still lived there. BTW he spoke Czech fluently.

So if the reason you give why Hitler was called like that is true, it's again modern historians (like Knopp) perpetuating an error by calling him like that.

But you simply omit the main argument again – you erroneously equate Böhme with Czech – so you can refer to ALL nationalities who lived in Bohemia as Czech – is that what you are up to?

Don't you think there is a Czech people, a Czech nationality to which they DO NOT belong?

217.236.228.219 09:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

PS Do you add the category "German" to ethnic Czechs of that time who spoke German fluently? (one-way road)

PPS So you don't consider Gödel as Czech who did not speak Czech and called himself an Austrian expatriate?

There is no difference between Bohemian and Czech in the Czech Language, it is both český (adj) or Čech (person). Similarly Bohemian and Czech mean the same thing in English (if there is any difference then Bohemian refers to the West part of Czechia without Moravia and Czech Silesia.) Czech is used for people living in Czechia (Česko in Czech, Tschechien or Tschechei in German). If you want to stress the blood, then you say ethnic Czech. It is not a one way street, my friend who moved to Germany and has German citizenship is definitely a German (of Czech origin).

Ad Goedel: he was legally Czech for some time (he had it in his ID), but unlike Mendel it was not his whole life and not during the time he made his discoveries. The fact that he did not like it does not make much difference. My mother was Slovak even though she was happy to become Czech. If she discovered something you would she would have both Czech and Slovak categories.Jirka6 12:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Díky za "Česko" u hesla "Czech Republic"

Sám jsem se na to chystal. Ty vandalské editace jsou fakt k vzteku! A přitom – o co jde? Proč musí pořád někdo do geografické problematiky (kterou pojmenování naší země je) vnášet politiku a své nenávistné emoce??? No, je dobře, že rozumných je většina... --Iaroslavvs 10:58, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

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