User talk:JonRidinger/Archive 8

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Xavier College

G'day Jon,

I've withdrawn from the discussion over at Talk:Xavier College, and have therefore withdrawn my proposal because the discussion had turned WP:UNCIVIL with no hope of getting back on topic. Additionally, I won't be editing that page further as it is abundantly clear that certain people WP:OWN that article and hard. Hopefully they'll make the changes you suggested, but thanks, anyway, for your contribution. -danjel (talk to me) 18:55, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject United States

Hello, JonRidinger/Archive 8! WikiProject United States, an outreach effort supporting development of United States related articles in Wikipedia, has recently been restarted after a long period of inactivity. As a user who has shown an interest in United States related topics we wanted to invite you to join us in developing content relating to the United States. If you are interested please add your Username and area of interest to the members page here. Thank you!!!

--Kumioko (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to stap and say welcome to the Project! Please let me know if you have any questions, commments or suggestions.--Kumioko (talk) 20:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Re: Radio discussion

Hello, JonRidinger. You have new messages at Neutralhomer's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Winter 2010 USRD newsletter

Volume 4, Issue 1 • Winter 2011 • About the Newsletter
Departments Assessment roundup Portal selected articles and pictures	Features The Year in Review Royal Award Conferred USRD busy at work at FAC	State and national updates Project reports for CA MI MN NE NJ UT WA
Archives • Newsroom • Full Issue • Shortcut: WP:USRD/NEWS

—

JCbot (talk) 01:04, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

New Years Message for WikiProject United States

With the first of what I hope will be monthly newsletters I again want to welcome you to the project and hope that as we all work together through the year we can expand the project, create missing articles and generally improve the pedia thought mutual cooperation and support. Now that we have a project and a solid pool of willing members I wanted to strike while the iron is hot and solicite help in doing a few things that I believe is a good next step in solidifiing the project. I have outlined a few suggestions where you can help with on the projects talk page. This includes but is not limited too updating Portal:United States, assessing the remaining US related articles that haven't been assessed, eliminating the Unrefernced BLP's and others. If you have other suggestions or are interested in doing other things feel free. I just wanted to offer a few suggestions were additional help is needed. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions, comments or suggestions or you can always post something on the projects talk page. If you do not want to recieve a monthly message please put an * before your name on the members page.--Kumioko (talk) 03:32, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

New Albany, Ohio

An IP is complaining that I'm violating policy by removing unlinked nonnotable band members from the notable natives and residents section of New Albany, Ohio. Can you help me please? Nyttend (talk) 04:07, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Jon - I undid your deletion, you said in your edit that the band is nonnotable, it is not, it has a separate Wikipedia article and has clearly established notability. The only reason it was not linked in the notable residents section was because the link was given only a couple of lines above.

Given the notability of the band (and the fact that all the members are from New Albany and reside there), wouldn't you consider them to be notable natives/residents? Thanks for your input. 155.188.183.19 (talk) 17:58, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

If the band is notable, then the band should be what's listed and the facts that the band was established in New Albany that several (or all) residents are from the city. There needs to also be a reliable source linking the band to New Albany. An example in List of people from Kent, Ohio has a similar situation with the band Six Parts Seven. The band itself is notable; the members, however, have not achieved notability on their own, so individual names are not listed at this point. Remember, the burden of proof falls on you to justify the inclusion of info. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with your edit, the band should be in the list as the band. (In the citations on the band's page, the link to New Albany is already mentioned.) Your interpretation matches my original interpretation, but another editor changed it, first to delete the entry, then to list separately as individual people. I'll leave it as it is now. Thanks again for your help. 155.188.183.18 (talk) 20:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

As long as it's properly referenced in the article, it doesn't need to be referenced again. I would, however, recommend just having it mentioned in Notable people. The Arts and culture section is more for events and places people in the town go and do. Unless those specific events resulted in a number of notable performers/groups, then you keep the people in Notable people since those people really aren't a part of the arts scene in the town. As it stands now we have the entire section devoted to things to see and do, then a random mention of a band that came from the town. Notable people is where the town's notable "success stories" can come into play. Eventually the section could be written in prose instead of a list (see Kent, Ohio#Notable people for an example). --JonRidinger (talk) 21:02, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject United States

I have proposed a change to the mission statement of WikiProject United States at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States#Mission statement for WikiProject United States and would welcome your views. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 13:36, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

St. Andrew's Episcopal School (Amarillo, Texas)

I a school project member. What is your take on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/St._Andrew's_Episcopal_School_(Amarillo,_Texas)? Just curious. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Copritch (talk • contribs) 17:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

New WikiProject United States Newsletter: February 2011 edition

Starting with the February 2011 issue WikiProject United States has established a newsletter to inform anyone interested in United States related topics of the latest changes. This newsletter will not only discuss issues relating to WikiProject United States but also:

1. Portal:United States
2. the United States Wikipedians Noticeboard
3. the United States Wikipedians collaboration of the Month - The collaboration article for February is Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
4. and changes to Wikipolicy, events and other things that may be of interest to you.

You may read or assist in writing the newsletter, subscribe, unsubscribe or change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you by following this link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page or the Newsletters talk page. --Kumioko (talk) 20:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

ANI you would probably be interested in

I saw your comment on User talk:131.204.254.72 and that you have the same concerns as me, so please go to this ANI discussion and add your input. If I missed anything in my numbered list, please feel free to add on to it. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Question for You

Hi Jon, I placed a question for you on the WikiProject Schools Talk Page [1] Greg Comlish (talk) 05:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Online Ambassador Program

Please take a look at this project page and see if you can be a mentor to one of the many Areas of Study. If you can, please put your name in the "Online Mentor" area of the Area of Study of your choice and then contact the students you will be working with. As the Coordinating Online Ambassador for this project, please let me know if I can be of assistance. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

2010 Census Data

The FactFinder 2 is a monumental piece of cr*p. Numerous people from Wikipedia feel the same way. As I understand it, they have been releasing data in stages. I know that Iowa has been online for a while, and I heard yesterday on the news that Kansas was online.

I took me a large number of tries to get this Census counts for the counties. Originally I thought it was only for Kansas, but later after pasting it in another browser, I noticed that it is for all counties in USA, then you have to click on a pull-down to choose the state. I've already been updating some of the counties in Kansas using this link as a reference. http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_PL_GCTPL2.ST05&prodType=table

For Peabody, Kansas, I finally found a census list for all cities in Kansas, but the web page was very slow. Unfortunately I didn't save the URL, thus is why I didn't put it on the Peabody article. Tonight I need to see if I can recreate the search for it again. The census number for Peabody is correct and did come from Fact Finder 2. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 18:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I knew they were releasing it in stages, so I was checking to see if they had released more. Thanks for the link. Many states are listed, but not all yet (dangit!). Like Ohio, for instance, is not in the drop down menu. So, either Ohio is no longer a US State or they don't have the data! :). Glad to see some of the local data is finally coming out. Thanks for the reply. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Census Information Released...FINALLY

Hey Dude, long time, no talk...how ya been? Good I hope. Wanted to let you know that the 2010 Census information is FINALLY out. You can find the new information on the slightly harder to use American FactFinder website. So far, they just have population information and demographics in the Redistricting files. Since Kent is a large city, they might have more information than just Stephens City, but not sure on that. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • Coor. Online Amb'dor • 08:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

About to find out...thanks for the heads up! --JonRidinger (talk) 16:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. :) Glad I can help out. - Neutralhomer • Talk • Coor. Online Amb'dor • 23:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

2010 Census Changes For Cities

I decided to write up a quick article to guide other authors on updating the 2010 Census for city articles in Kansas. This is the approach that I'm going to take for modifying articles. This is considered a live user article, so likely I will change it as I find errors and get feedback. Obviously, everyone can do whatever they want, but hopefully they will take my changes into account.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sbmeirow/RecommendedChangesToArticlesFor2010Census

• Sbmeirow • Talk • 02:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I was just planning on manually updating the sections when the data becomes available. The Demographics sections should be more dynamic (i.e. some comparisons with previous data and other cities) than the raw census numbers anyway according to WP:USCITY and in most recent FAs. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I am kinda confused on how we should update these pages. Since some of the information is out, but some will come out this year and even into next year, I am wondering if we should hold off on the updating of the pages until we have a majority of the information out. Right now, I have a mix of 2010, 2009 estimates and 2000 census information on Stephens City, Virginia. It kinda looks messy and out of place. - Neutralhomer • Talk • Coor. Online Amb'dor • 03:11, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

In my case I have no choice as there is virtually nothing about Ohio out. In cases where limited info has been released, it's not an easy choice. I want to say update where you can (especially the population), but if you do just be careful to date the info. I would also point out any significant changes (if any) in demographic data between the last two censuses. "Significant" is probably a matter of debate, but I see "significant" as something more than at least 50% up or down. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:17, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your advice regarding Barbara Stadtlander. I'm new to Wiki and still trying to get the hang of things.

Should her page actually be converted somehow to "Barbara Stadtlander (Artist)"? Given that she's deceased? I'm not 100% sure how it works.

--B4theword (talk) 03:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. To answer your question, the only time a title would need something in parenthesis is if there is another article with the same title. For example, the high school I attended is Theodore Roosevelt High School. There are several schools with that same name, so "(Kent, Ohio)" is added to the title in that case (Theodore Roosevelt High School (Kent, Ohio)) to differentiate it from, say, Theodore Roosevelt High School (San Antonio), Theodore Roosevelt High School (Los Angeles), or any other TRHS. The parenthesis are needed to differentiate between them. So, unless there is another Barbara Stadtlander that also has an article, the current name is just fine. That is subject to change, of course (if someone else named Barbara Stadtlander becomes notable), but unlikely. For more info, see WP:AT. If you have any other questions, please ask! :) --JonRidinger (talk) 04:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

RE: Including Kent & KSU

In all honesty, personally I've no problem with it. Kent falls into the Cleveland-Elyria-Akron CSA, and is part of Portage County. Greater Cleveland (mainly Cuyahoga, Lake, Medina and Geauga counties) is an admittedly vague interpretation depending on whose view we are going by. I'm sure there are those who would argue that Akron and Cleveland are separate entities as far as a metro area, which is to say that Metro Akron is where Kent would likely fall if there was a discussion regarding where to place Kent... except I don't believe there is a WikiProject Akron to make a case... although WikiProject Ohio members might make a stink about it seeing as it's a feature article. Do what you feel is appropriate.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 21:28, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Template:Portage County, Ohio

I'm sorry my edit summary didn't adequately explain the purpose of the change I made. It's to bring this template into line with many other similar ones, with the intention of removing the rather fragile dependency on a link to a subheading within the City or Village articles. The idea is to link to a state-specific redirect [City (Ohio) or Village (Ohio)], which itself then points to the location of an explanation of these concepts. Therefore, if a better explanation can be found elsewhere, or those articles are reorganised, only a couple of redirects need to be changed, not every single Ohio county template. This same change has already been made to all the other Ohio county templates, and many for other states, without objection. For example, the comparable Alaska templates, where the equivalent links Borough (Alaska) and City (Alaska) are redirects. Or the Utah emplates, where both Town (Utah) and City (Utah) are redirects to Town#Utah, as that's where the best explanation of these two concepts is to be found. Colonies Chris (talk) 10:41, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

add notable alumni: your recent edit 421410202

Sourcing does not confer notability; you are right. However, in this circumstance I am not using a source to signify notability. The notable aspect of this alumnus' contributions is the fact he was the national player of the year in basketball, a very rare feat indeed. For that reason, he is notable. The source is used merely to verify that fact. For that accolade, he should be placed among the other notable athletes in the list.

Please undo your edit in this case, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsfeditor (talk • contribs) 04:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

In any kind of notable alumni or notable people lists, the general rule of thumb is to wait for an article to be created before inserting them into a list. If there is a question about notability, these lists aren't the place to find out. The point of lists isn't to fit as many people as possible who may be notable or have been successful, but to connect articles that have an underlying theme, in this case the school or town that person is from. Of course it's not an absolute rule, but remember, "rare feat" or even "highly accomplished" doesn't necessarily mean "notable". Player of the year is definitely a rare feat and a great accomplishment. Most college players, though, (even in Division I) aren't notable unless they win several high-profile awards, have significant media coverage, and/or go pro. Most Division II athletes don't fit that since Division II has very low visibility, even the very best. Could the player achieve notability? Sure, but be sure to review what notability is and isn't, in particular that notability isn't temporary. In a few months will anyone outside of this person's school or town remember that he won POY? Heck, how many IN the town or school will even remember in a few months? Based strictly on winning the D-II POY, that is not notable in and of itself in my opinion, which is why I removed it. The most appropriate list would be if there is an NCAA Division II Player of the Year list for basketball. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I guess I disagree with your opinion. In this case, Ducharme was inducted, with Barty Smith, into DSF's inaugural hall of fame class. He also played professionally for several years after college, and was a well-followed player at a much higher level at the ACC's UVa before transferring to the D-2 school. To boot, there was "significant coverage" of him in the Richmond Times-Dispatch and features in the USA Today and Washington Post. Finally, the "time-to-time reassessment" criterion is satisfied by last year's HOF induction story. In terms of "waiting for an article", just Google his name and the high school and you will see several articles about his tenure there. The link I cited in the notation just validates the D-2 accolade from an independent source, however, one could easily include any of the articles on Google. The aforementioned points I think rebut much of what you request, and I again recommend your reversal of your edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsfeditor (talk • contribs) 00:51, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Being inducted into a local Hall of Fame is not notable. For my own high school, the "Notable alumni" section is far smaller than the number of people in the school's Hall of Fame and every year the latest Hall of Fame class has an article written about them. Local Hall of Fames usually honor a school's most successful alumni, but as I've said before, being successful doesn't automatically mean notable. Also, with "significant coverage", did it last long? Was there on-going coverage of his career in more than just the local papers? Notability is also not temporary, so having a local story about the POY award is expected, even a mention in USA Today. Having a HOF story doesn't mean his notability is established because of a time limit either. I'm guessing the story was a local story and no one outside his area knew or cared. Because many newspapers will publish stories from other sources, often times being covered in multiple papers isn't necessarily a guarantee of notability either. If you believe he is notable, why not start an article or go to an appropriate Wikiproject (WP:CBBALL) and ask other editors if they think the person is notable? That's really your best bet for keeping him on a given list. Trying to prove notability just for the purpose of inclusion on a low-visibility high school list is missing the point of the lists and will likely end up having the name removed down the road by another editor. If he's notable enough to be on the list, then he's notable enough to have an article, even if it's just a stub. I obvsiously don't think he's notable enough, but other editors may see it differently. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:29, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

While your points are well taken, there is considerable leeway in deciding what "significant coverage" and temporal nature of accolades are. Case in point: the former Devo drummer who played in a single concert who is featured as a notable alumnus from your high school (I wouldn't cite that list as the paradigm). No one cares who played for Devo for a single concert! My point is: in the finer points within the gray area of notability's connotation I think you are being a little too strict. There are numerous lesser figures who are held out as notable on Wikipedia! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsfeditor (talk • contribs) 20:42, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Stow HS

I am willing to accept the removal of the phrase "quarter-century reign" if you are willing to accept "once considered a 'powerhouse' " for the Latin Club section. Both were properly sourced, but I see how from your POV that at some point to can become too much. Let's compromise.
Levdr1 (talk) 21:22, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Just in case it wasn't already clear, the "powerhouse" quote was on the page nearly a year.
Levdr1 (talk) 23:47, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, I saw your name on the Progressive Field scoreboard on TV behind Bruce Drennan on SportsTimeOhio. Levdr1 (talk) 01:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Haha you saw that? I sang the national anthem at the game tonight!  :)

As for the quotes, I know they are sourced, but this is another one of those "keeping things in perspective" and encyclopedic things. Bottom line is clubs aren't that significant, even ones with awesome runs like Stow Latin. Taking the Roosevelt article through GAN showed me that they really don't like a whole lot of details on the clubs since most school clubs have almost no visibility even within their own school. It's basically highlight significant clubs, minimal info about any accomplishments (especially on a national and state scale) and that's it. Even though I've kind of cooled off really editing major sections, I still will likely trim more out of the Roosevelt article before taking it through FAC. In this case, simply presenting the bare facts is all you need to get the point across and keep it encyclopedic. Using journalistic quotes gives it, well, a journalistic feel instead of an encyclopedic feel. Having one journalist using "powerhouse rein" in an article just seems a bit much to make into the article. I would be more supportive if the terms had been used on a much wider scale. In the end, the 28 consecutive is impressive on its own (as far as people even care what it's related to), so the estra quotes didn't add anything beyond trying to make it look even better. Let the facts speak for themselves. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:19, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

So yes or no? You don't agree with me here. Likewise, I don't agree with you (entirely). I'm asking for a compromise.
Levdr1 (talk) 04:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, you're combining two different quotes from two separate sources. "Powerhouse" comes from the Beacon Journal in 1995; "reign" comes from Cincinnati CityBeat this past fall. I've removed "Reign" and the Cin. citation b/c I respect your perspective.
Levdr1 (talk) 04:54, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Forget it. I've removed both quotes. Levdr1 (talk) 09:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It's in no way meant as a sign of disrespect for you as an editor or Stow Latin Club and their accomplishments. But the whole GAN process and then several later discussions about school clubs (including athletics) that have arisen on the Schools Wikiproject have really shown that lots of details about school clubs aren't what the consensus is looking for in the long run. That's not to say we shouldn't have anything about them, but for the most part, lots of details about specific clubs/teams are going to get removed or at least toned down. The reason I didn't edit it until now is just how it worked out. I was looking over the page after your most recent edit and felt the quotes weren't all that crucial in understanding the main point and came across as unencyclopedic and promotional. To be honest I don't think listing every year is really needed either, but I'll leave that to you. While it's no one's article, you have put far more work and effort into its development. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Quotes are gone. The years for Certamen (quizbowl) titles stay (as they should). Let's move on to more editing and national anthems. Levdr1 (talk) 20:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Remember, Wikipedia isn't a democracy, so it really doesn't work simply by compromise. Content is either appropriate or it isn't. Consensus is not the same as compromise. I'm not going to go and do a whole bunch of edits to the Stow HS article because overall it's really not a huge concern or priority for me. I make them only when I feel they are absolutely necessary (tone is far more important than excess details to me). But if you ever want it to progress beyond the C-class article it is, I can tell you now that eventually most of the details about the various clubs are probably going to need to be pared down. One potential option would be a collapsible chart, though that's no guarantee the info would stay through any kind of Good Article review. That's based on my own experiences in many school articles and discussions, not just the Roosevelt one. --JonRidinger (talk) 00:06, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I know, I know, I know. I just wanted to settle the Latin Club section between us for now. Are we settled for now? Levdr1 (talk) 01:01, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind. Levdr1 (talk) 01:05, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Of course we're "settled". I'm just trying to give you some advice to help make the article better. --JonRidinger (talk) 01:12, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

April 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States

The April 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

 
--Kumioko (talk) 19:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

1. Open an account with the Akron-Summit County Public Library.
2. Go to http://www.akronlibrary.org/
3. Click "Database & Websites" on the left.
4. Scroll down. Under "Newspapers", click "Akron Beacon Journal".
5. Enter your library card #.
6. Select appropriate Ohio newspaper(s).
7. Search.

History Ancient Aliens Image Inquiry

Hello Jon,

I work on the documentary television series Ancient Aliens, which appears on the History Channel in the U.S. We are doing a show called "Cowboys and Aliens" that deals with the unexplained, mysteries stories, and people looking to the stars in the Old West. We are covering the start of Mormonism with Joseph Smith's vision of Moroni. We are also touching on the idea that some early Mormons questioned whether life could exist on other planets. Our show provides both the facts of Mormonism and our Ancient Astronaut theorists wilder theories that try to connect things to aliens, but our show is about showing both views. I saw you have a photo of the recreated Cabin in New York where Joseph Smith saw the angel Moroni that would be great for our show. We are also looking for high-res photos of statues of Smith, Brigham Young, BYU, and the LDS Temple in Salt Lake City. Please note that final credit appearances are subject to network approval. If you are interested permitting use of your images, please contact me at the e-mail below with any questions.

Thanks and I hope to hear from you, Matt Thomas Researcher Ancient Aliens Season 3 Prometheus Pictures Los Angeles, CA matt.thomas@prometheuspix.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.80.199 (talk) 17:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

May 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States

The May 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

 
.--Kumioko (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

U.S. Roads WikiProject Newsletter, Spring 2011

Volume 4, Issue 2 • Spring 2011 • About the Newsletter
Departments Assessment roundup Portal selected articles and pictures	Features Stub drive continues on User Vaoverland passes away Get your kicks with the US 66 task force	State and national updates Project reports for CA DE MD MI PA
Archives • Newsroom • Full Issue • Shortcut: WP:USRD/NEWS

—Rschen7754bot (talk) 02:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

June 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States

The June 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

 
--Kumioko (talk) 19:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

US National Archives collaboration

United States National Archives WikiProject

Would you like to help improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to the National Archives and its incredible collection? This summer, the National Archives—which houses some of America's most important historical documents—is hosting me as its Wikipedian in Residence, and I have created WP:NARA to launch these efforts. There are all sorts of tasks available for any type of editor, whether you're a writer, organizer, gnome, coder, or image guru. The National Archives is making its resources available to Wikipedia, so help us forge this important relationship! Please sign up and introduce yourself. Dominic·t 15:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)