User talk:Jonnybgoode44/Archives/2012

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Category:Steampunk music

Hey there. I saw the bot removed the category from all those pages after a small discussion agreed to delete it, and I had been planning on adding a new category in its place. What do you think about moving that category to Category:Steampunk-themed bands, or something similar? It's a little more accurate, since the steampunk style is more clearly defined than the music. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm ok with that, or with as I said on the talk page, "Steampunk musicians" (since one can easily point to musicians but not so much to the music). I just didn't want to do that without a consensus; I conferred with Andy Dingley earlier and he was afraid it would be seen as a disruptive end-run around the issue and might result in a ban; he said "it was a bad deletion; just challenge it directly." --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 14:51, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Just for the record, if you wish to challenge the deletion you have two legitimate avenues for doing so: either take it to WP:DRV for a review, or write a proper article about the musical genre so that the category can be properly supported (the lack of a proper head article for the topic was the primary reason for deletion.) You're not really allowed to just immediately recreate it without pursuing one of those two options first, however, because until there's actually a consensus established to overturn the deletion it can be immediately redeleted by any administrator as a recreation of a deleted category. There are processes available on here to have a CFD decision reexamined if you disagree with it -- but just ignoring it and recreating the deleted category the very next day, without doing anything about the reasons why the category was deleted in the first place, isn't really one of them. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 06:25, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

"the lack of a proper head article for the topic was the primary reason for deletion."

It probably was. However that's a nonsense reason. Especially when it's a clear sub category of a topic that does have a large article about it. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:10, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I've had a discussion with the closer of that CfD, and I think it should be possible to satisfy her request in order to restore the category. Take a look here and see if you can add anything. Thanks. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 17:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I realize I'm late to the discussion, but it's been a busy month for me and I didn't even know the category was up for deletion until it had been deleted twice. Perhaps, since this seems to be where all the interested parties have already gathered, we could use this space to discuss a replacement category? Specifically, how to define it so it can be defended from repeated deletions. I would suggest we tailor our definition to avoid obviously including mainstream musicians that just use Steampunk style in one of their videos without changing the music/lyrics to fit - unless, of course, they maintain the styling beyond just one video/performance. What do you think?

And just so it's recorded someplace we can readily refer to it, the artists included in the now-deleted category were: Abney Park (band), Andrew O'Neill Chris Vrenna, The Clockwork Cabaret, Doctor Steel, Johnny Hollow, The Men That Will Not Be Blamed for Nothing, Mr. B The Gentleman Rhymer, Professor Elemental, Robert Brown (musician), Rasputina (band), Steam Powered Giraffe, Sunday Driver (UK), Unextraordinary Gentlemen, Vernian Process. Blackfyr (talk) 19:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really sure Chris Vrenna or Johnny Hollow fit. There'd need to be some solid references for them; I've not heard of them being steampunk performers before. Mr. B is marginal; though it's unquestionable that he has some popularity within the community, he's been removed from the list as often as he's been placed on it as being more chappist than steampunk. A battle for another time, IMO.

I've reorganized the works page, added some references and have added "see also" pages on the musicians' pages linking back to it. Best compromise we can do for the time being, I suppose. Going to take the links off The Clockwork Dolls, The Clockwork Quartet and The Cog is Dead since there currently aren't Wiki pages for them. (I still need to rewrite the music section of the main Steampunk article too; it's gotten really bad, but I simply haven't had the time recently.) --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 06:20, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the inclusion of Chris Vrenna, I will simply point out the very steampunk soundtrack he did for the game American McGee's Alice in support of him.

As to how to define who to include in the listings, I'd like to suggest something along the lines of the guidelines currently being used at the Steampunk Wikia page on the topic < http://steampunk.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_steampunk_bands >. Blackfyr (talk) 02:47, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I really need to learn how to use one of these archive bots; my talk page is too long. :)

As for Vrenna, I don't question that he's done some music that many might consider steampunk. The problem is finding a reliable source stating that he is a steampunk musician (i.e. not someone's blog). And then asking the question, is he a decidedly steampunk musician, i.e. has he adopted the genre, or is he just doing a one-off or dabbling in it? In other words, is he an Abney Park or a Justin Bieber? If the former, then yes, if you can find a reliable source or sources referring to him as a steampunk musician then he should be included in the category of Steampunk music. If not, he should go on the List of steampunk works page under "Music: Other bands that have produced steampunk-themed works". --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 21:31, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

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Category:Steampunk music

Category:Steampunk music was nominated for deletion at WP:CFD October 4, and the discussion was closed by me as "delete".

Following further discussion with interested editors, I have re-listed the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 14#Category:Steampunk_music, where your comments will be welcome.

This notice is being sent to all the editors who participated in the original discussion, and also to those who posted on my talk page about the closure. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 05:36, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Happy Festivus

		Happy Festivus!
		Here's wishing you a happy Festivus! May you emerge victorious from the Feats of Strength, may your list of Grievances be short, and may your days be filled with Festivus Miracles. —Torchiest talkedits 14:00, 24 December 2012 (UTC)