Kaschelott

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Welcome to Wikipedia, Kaschelott! Thank you for your contributions. I am HiLo48 and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Kuhn Island (Franz Josef Land) has been accepted

Kuhn Island (Franz Josef Land), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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AviationFreak💬 01:26, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Kane Island has been accepted

Kane Island, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Sulfurboy (talk) 23:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Great article mate. Thanks for your work.

Sulfurboy (talk) 23:14, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

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Norwegian schooner Isbjørn and captain Johan Kjeldsen

Is this photo File:Kapitein Kycksen aan boord van de Fobjören Nordpol-Expedition. - Am Bord des Fobjören. Kapitain Kycksen observirend (titel op object) Le Tour du Monde Reise um die Erde (serietitel op object), RP-F-F10432.jpg actually of the Norwegian schooner Isbjørn and her hired captain Johan Kjeldsen?

See commons:Category:Ships named Isbjörn for other photos of the vessel.

Do you have a build date for this ship?

There seem to be some discrepancies that need ironing out between Johan Kjeldsen and Wilhelm J. Burger and Count Johann Nepomuk Wilczek and Austro-Hungarian North Pole expedition? - Broichmore (talk) 14:45, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@Broichmore: Yes, I'd say that photo is definitely of Isbjørn and Johan Kjeldsen, nice find! My interpretation of the handwriting is "№15._ Nordpol-Expedition._ Am Bord des Isbjören. Kapitain Kyelsen observirend." The spelling "Isbjören" is an understandable spelling deviation for a German speaker and Payer's writing also leaves out the "d" in "Kjeldsen". I found this picture where the handwriting is clearer and the same spelling can be found both for "Isbjören" and "Kyelsen", this time it's a cabin boy named "Karl Kyelsen". Perhaps some relative of Johan's? In any case, it's pretty clearly not Fobjören or Kycksen.

About the build date of the ship: Payer writes it was a completely new vessel and its first voyage was the 1871 probing journey for the Austro-Hungarian North Pole Expedition.

By discrepancies do you mean the ship type? I notice I wrote sloop in the article on Johan Kjeldsen, but schooner in the Austro-Hungarian North Pole Expedition article. I'm guessing this is because Kjær called her a sloop, but that seems incorrect going by the number of masts in the images you provided. Payer calls the ship "Schute" which would translate to something like barge, I think, and says she was rigged as a cutter, which I can't make sense of. Barr and Cappelotti both write schooner, so I'm guessing that's correct. Kaschelott (talk) 21:46, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I was thinking of the expedition dates. Here it says from 20 June 1871 to 4 October 1871. The ship in that reference is called a barge.

Yeah, ship terms can be loose. It's my experience that generally new ships were preferred for Arctic expeditions; but there are exceptions. No one uses Barque, which surprises me The variety of terms used is not a problem, I think.

Just noticed the Isbjørn also went on the main expedition too according to this reference.

This reference is intriguing and seems to suggest the build for the Isjborn might be 1867? Log books for 1867 to 1874. If its our ship the books would cover your period.

Lastly, do you have views on spelling? Isbjörn or Isbjørn or Isborn; and their are other variants. The last (Isborn) is easier for search. The variants make life difficult on the internet. - Broichmore (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

@Broichmore: Oh, I see what you mean. It's not very clear from the articles in their current form that there were 3 journeys in total in connection with the Austro-Hungarian North Pole Expedition: first the 1871 preliminary reconnaissance mission on Isbjørn, led by Weyprecht and Payer, with Kjeldsen as captain. Then in 1872 the actual expedition launched on Tegetthoff, led by Weyprecht and Payer on their own. And also during 1872, Wilczek chartered Isbjørn again (with Kjeldsen as captain) and laid some depots for the eventual return of the Tegetthoff. The two ships met briefly during that trip.

The ships logs look interesting. I'm having a hard time trying to find out anything beyond those titles at the moment though.

The spelling variations are a bit annoying, I agree. Isbjørn is how you spell "Polar Bear" in Norwegian nowadays. Isbjørnen is "The Polar Bear", so that's why it's often also written like that. Historically, ö (the German version) was used interchangeably with ø in Norwegian as well, so at the time it could just as well have been spelt Isbjörn. Spelling it Isbjorn is incorrect, if admittedly much easier for searching. A 'legitimate' way to avoid ø or ö would be oe, so spelling it Isbjoern. But really that alternative is of limited use, because the people who know you can replace ø with oe will probably spell it 'properly' with an ø or ö.

Thanks for the spelling lesson. Interesting. I'll cover the variations in a wikidata entry. Think I'll go with the Lloyds register entry, if it exists, or default to the way spelt when built... Broichmore (talk) 14:02, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Broichmore: By the way, I checked the data from those log books from the Historical Arctic Database you linked. I'm afraid those must be from another ship with the same name. The dates and positions logged just don't fit. For example, on 20.06.1872, when Wilczek sailed from Tromsø the logbook records a position of 72°N 5°W, out by Jan Mayen. From where the voyages start and end, I suspect that one is based in Denmark. Kaschelott (talk) 16:11, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

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