KevinBot

Please direct all questions or comments to User:Kevin Rector at User talk:Kevin Rector.

Below are some archived discussions about KevinBot and the chores that it does/will do.

Put a reference to the country in Rambot pages.

The following is here for historical purposes. But because Ram-Man has become active again, I am not going to be modifying any of the RamBot articles.

I have privately (to Kevin Rector) suggested that KevinBot should change all RamBot articles that they state that the place was actually in the USA. It currently goes X is a city located in Y-County, Z-State., and it'd be nice if you could add in the USA after that... I think this would be a bit more NPOV. Kevin Rector suggested that I bring up this on the pump for comments. Kokiri 13:43, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This is a good suggestion. I have been giving a bit of thought as to how Rambot articles can be improved and I agree this is a welcome change. — Trilobite (Talk) 14:31, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

As a U.S. citizen, I emphatically agree that each U.S. town article should include "in the United States". (I prefer that to an abbreviation. These articles are essentially automatically-generated starting points — why not use the proper term from the start?) A quick check shows that Paris, Tokyo, and Buenos Aires, all large and famous cities, clearly indicate their country, though such information is no surprise to most. Should we expect less of U.S. locales, just because many people might be expected to recognize the second part of their article titles as U.S. states? — Jeff Q 14:40, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"in the United States" sounds good to me. I expect you could even find some people in the U.S. who didn't recoginze all 50 states. Rmhermen 14:51, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)

I would prefer the formulation as X is a city located in Y-County in the U.S. state of Z-state. I'd argue that the U.S. state article is more relevant to anyone interested in what Z-state was than the main United States article. older≠wiser 14:56, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Even if you do recognize all 50 states, Athens is a city in Georgia is unclear, as there is both a US state and a country by that name. DenisMoskowitz

A reference to the country definitely should be added. I don't think the "in the..." is needed: why not just "<comma, country>?" My preference would be just to add ", [[United States|USA]]" after the state name, but some people don't like the abbreviation: ", [[United States]]" then. –Hajor 15:02, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I can already see trouble brewing here over the old controversy of whether United States or its abbreviation US is the best way of refering to the United States of America. My proposal is to have something along the lines of: '''Somewhere''' is a city located in [[State]], [[United States|USA]]. This avoids people complaining about US or United States because no one will object (hopefully) to the country being referred to by what is by far its most common abbreviation. — Trilobite (Talk) 15:12, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Something like that. Discreet, to the point, and links to both the state and the country (said in reply to Bkonrad, above). –Hajor

Also a US citizen, I very much want Wikipedia to not be US-centric, so I definately support identifying the country. I would prefer "USA" or "United States of America", as there is more than one "United States of ____". I would be happy with any of the following: Sunnyvale is a city located in Santa Clara County, California, USA. Santa Clara, founded in 1852, is a city located in Santa Clara County, in the U.S. state of California. Mountain View is a city located in Santa Clara County, in the U.S. state of California, USA. I like the latter two because they give the reader the most options to get further information, but can appreciate the arguement of succinctness of the first one. Niteowlneils 18:35, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If anyone actually writes a bot to do this, they will need to be somewhat careful. While the vast majority of the Rambot location descriptions do match the form: X is a city located in Y-County, Z-State, there are many situations with variations on this. Besides the obvious city/town/township/village variants, sometimes the county is not given, presumably because Rambot was not able to manage ambiguous cases where a city spans multiple counties. Also many of the entries have already been manually updated so that the Rambot text may not be recognizable. Basically, I think any such bot would need fairly close human supervision.

FWIW, I'm still partial to the form X is a city located in Y-County in the U.S. state of Z-state. The other forms presume readers understand the comma separated hierarchy of U.S. place names. For those unfamiliar with the U.S federal structure, saying "in the U.S. state of Z-state" makes it clear what Z-state is. I personally don't like appending USA or United States of America, though I could live with appending simply United States. older≠wiser 20:07, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Is there anybody who would understand the expression "U.S. state" without understanding the significance of "Z-state, USA"? ☺ I must admit an ignorance of how the rest of the world thinks of the U.S. and its states, which might be different from how they think of political divisions from other countries not their own. Whereas I would not expect many to be familiar with the région and département system of France, I expect the individual states of the U.S. seem to have much more world notoriety. (Of course, California is no doubt much better known than, say, Rhode Island, but how many French régions or Japanese prefectures can your average Wikipedia reader name? I just don't have a good perspective on this.) In any case, some form of "United States" belongs in the initial identification. As long as it's clear, it's not as important what form, especially since people are expected to improve upon the articles. — Jeff Q 00:07, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, my wife is German, although she's lived here for many years, and in discussions with her friends and relatives there, it's clear to me that for the most part they only have a very vague notion of U.S. states beyond travel destinations such as Florida or California. They may have heard the names of the states, but may not really know where they are and are about as mystified by the relationship between the states and federal government as I am about how the German states and independent cities relate to each other and to the whole. What I'm trying to say is that for all practical purposes they understand that Michigan is in the U.S. in much the same way that they might understand that Chicago or the Grand Canyon is in the U.S. Simply writing "Michigan, USA" does not provide any cues as to what Michigan is in the same way that "U.S. state of Michigan" does. older≠wiser 01:07, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've heard stories of European tourists on the east coast wanting to rent a car for a weekend trip to the west coast, and similar. Completely aprochryphal friend-of-a-friend type thing though. -- Cyrius|✎ 03:26, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

While it's true that Mexico is formally Estados Unidos Mexicanos, in Mexico itself the phrase Estados Unidos almost always refers to the United States of America, and the English form should certainly be seen as unambiguous—it is in international usage, anyway, as we see in the Olympics. For my money, I prefer the form "California, US," with or without the periods, making use of the most common English-language abbreviation as standardized by the ISO. Austin Hair 10:58, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

Also, while I agree that the country should be explicitly stated in the article, it should be noted that US states are not mere subdivisions, but autonomous entities, all of which have enjoyed varying levels of sovereignty in the past (states must be organized before admission to the Union, if only as territories). The 13 founding colonies existed as de facto nations within a loose confederation prior to the ratification of the Constitution; Vermont, California, Texas, and Hawaii were all independent republics before being annexed. As for significance, one could easily argue that Rhode Island is no more obscure than Azerbaijan, whose economy is easily exceeded by the former, our smallest state. Just something to think about. Austin Hair 11:32, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

I would dispute that US is the most common English-language abbreviation. I'm quite prepared to believe it's the most common in that country, but in the rest of the English-speaking world it would only be heard as part of phrases like "US Air Force" or "the US embassy". USA is far more common. — Trilobite (Talk) 11:52, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

My proposal: Exampletown is a city located in in the U.S. state of Examplestate. Neutrality 03:13, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I like the "in Florida, USA" or "in Florida in the United States" versions much better (I prefer the first). [[User:Sverdrup|❝Sverdrup❞]] 03:19, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it should be done hierarchically. Those who don't grasp that Florida is a state will be enlightened when they click on it. It seems illogical not to mention the country explicity — the "US state" proposal does it in a slightly roundabout way. Most articles on places give the country in the form "Dortmund is a city in Germany". The county and state need including so "Somewhere is a city in Somewhere County, Alabama, USA." should do fine. — Trilobite (Talk) 04:21, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Are you saying that people will not understand that "U.S. state" refers to a division of the USA? If we're talking about people needing to make an extra click to be enlightened, then why bother to include any qualification at all. If a reader doesn't know where Florida is, they can find out by clicking on it. I dislike the comma separated hierachy "place, county, state, USA" because it looks ugly, sort of like a postal address--but misleadingly because actual postal addresses would not include the county. I really don't care that much if people want to qualify the places that way, but I have been and will continue to qualify them by writing out "in the U.S state of". I don't generally re-write a USA ref unless I am also making other edits to the sentence containing it. older≠wiser 01:15, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I second Trilobite. I like "Somewhere is a city in Somewhere County, Alabama, USA." Also, KevinBot uses Regular expressions so if the standard format is not in the article (it's been edited since) then the article will get skipped. Kevin Rector 13:58, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

If this is a vote, I strongly agree with the above format. - Taxman 19:14, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)

Just say that {cityname} is a city located in [[{countyname}]] in the U.S. state of [[{statename}]]. I would oppose simply adding USA, U.S., or United States at the end of the current RamBot wording. The triple comma set-up is very awkward. --mav 07:21, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi Kokiri. It was time to clean the pump, so I've moved the above discussion on Rambot and Kevinbot here so you can decide what to do with it. By the way, that's a great picture on your user page. Do you have a larger version of it you could upload? It might be good for a nomination to Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, but would probably not be supported at its current size. Angela. 22:01, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)

Unless I've missed some, the list below shows all the permutations offered above, each option applied to one article that specifies the state and one that doesn't. Please add any I've neglected to include. (No. 3 wasn't previously offered. It's a refinement of No. 2, which simply splits the U.S. state link into two: it thus offers a list to the main country article as well as to the list of states. It struck me as helpful.)

1. Clovis is a city located in Curry County, New Mexico, in the United States.
   • Abilene is a city located in Texas in the United States.
2. Clovis is a city located in Curry County in the U.S. state of New Mexico.
   • Abilene is a city located in the U.S. state of Texas.
3. (Clovis is a city located in Curry County in the U.S. state of New Mexico.)
   • (Abilene is a city located in the U.S. state of Texas.)
4. Clovis is a city located in Curry County, New Mexico, United States.
   • Abilene is a city located in Texas, United States.
5. Clovis is a city located in Curry County, New Mexico, USA.
   • Abilene is a city located in Texas, USA.
6. Clovis is a city located in Curry County, New Mexico, U.S.
   • Abilene is a city located in Texas, U.S.

The rationale is that seeing all the options laid out in an orderly fashion might help us reach a consensus. I hope so. –Hajor 23:19, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Third Law Question

Exactly how do you go about protecting your own existence? ---Isaac R 19:05, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

I know about the Three Laws. It's just that applying them to a perl script seems a little, uh, pretentious... ;-) ---Isaac R 04:29, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Possible New Article for West New York'o philes

A prominent newspaper editor who worked for papers like the New York Daily Mirror named Philip A. Payne lived in West New York, according to an article in the Jan. 29, 2006 Union City Reporter (which I assume was also printed in the Hudson Reporter's other area papers.) There is no article on him as of now, and I have other article I wish to work on, so as a suggestion, if anyone wants to make a one on him, and you want the article as reference, you can see it in full at: http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/9012/philippaynearticle7hw.jpg. You can also begin a section on Noteworthy Residents for that city's page (as I did for Union City), and place him in there. I'm sending this message to all the Wikipedians that I saw on the History page for the West New York article, so you don't have to respond to me about this. Nightscream 00:12, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a automated to all bot operators

Please take a few moments and fill in the data for your bot on Wikipedia:Bots/Status Thank you Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 19:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Automated message to bot owners

As a result of discussion on the village pump and mailing list, bots are now allowed to edit up to 15 times per minute. The following is the new text regarding bot edit rates from Wikipedia:Bot Policy:

Until new bots are accepted they should wait 30-60 seconds between edits, so as to not clog the recent changes list and user watchlists. After being accepted and a bureaucrat has marked them as a bot, they can edit at a much faster pace. Bots doing non-urgent tasks should edit approximately once every ten seconds, while bots who would benefit from faster editing may edit approximately once every every four seconds.

Also, to eliminate the need to spam the bot talk pages, please add Wikipedia:Bot owners' noticeboard to your watchlist. Future messages which affect bot owners will be posted there. Thank you. --Mets501 03:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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