Lmatt123

Hello, Lmatt123, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or or by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! SwisterTwister talk 06:43, 2 May 2012 (UTC) Getting started Introduction The five pillars of Wikipedia How to edit a page Intuitive guide to Wikipedia Finding your way around Table of contents Department directory Editing articles How to develop an article Manual of Style Getting help Frequently asked questions Cheatsheet Where to ask a question Help pages New contributors' help page Article Wizard – a Wizard to help you create articles How you can help Contributing to Wikipedia Community Portal Join a WikiProject Follow Wikipedia etiquette Practice civility

Maryse Selit

Please vote only once in the AFD discussion. You may also want to read WP:SPA and possibly WP:COI. Hairhorn (talk) 15:37, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

REPLY TO HAIRHORN: I did not vote a second time. I merely responded to the comments made by NJ Wine (are you telling me that only you and NJ Wine are entitled to make multiple comments but, as a new editor, I am not?? Where in the Wiki G/Ls is that stated??) As for your allegations of a single-purpose a/c and potential conflicts of interest, you are absolutely and utterly incorrect. I am not trying to promote this attorney or anyone else for that matter. I contributed to this article and a number of other related articles because they are subjects I am knowledgeable about. I am personally aware of the achievements and notability of this lawyer and, as an attorney myself, have the expertise to make that assessment. I found your comments "about Spammy references" and "the fact that she is just an entertainment lawyer does not cut it" etc. to be in conflict with Wiki guidelines (and I have spent a lot of time reading the G/Ls). I also saw that you removed the pics I uploaded of Katt Williams (which i did at his request) without any explanation. Mr. Williams lived in Watchung and wanted his presence on the east-coast documented b/c be intends to make it a permanent residence, but you arbitrarily decided to remove that pic, because you were "unsure what it was doing there". I have been monitoring your comments and contributions too and I can see how you appear to believe that you more rights than I do just because you are a frequent contributor. Contrarily, you are bound by the same rules that I am and I intend to spend the time to make sure that you do not continue to behave this way towards people and articles you dislike personally (and believe me, I see a clear pattern).

I considered your bolded "keep" a second vote, you can make as many comments as you like, but please don't restate your vote at the beginning of each one. I pointed you towards the SPA page, not simply because your edits are focused on a single subject, but because your image uploads are all related to Maryse Selit ‎and all tagged as your own work, suggesting that you have a connection to this person. Hairhorn (talk) 17:22, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I am not disputing that Ms. Selit is a colleague (as already stated, I am personally aware of the achievements of this attorney) but I have also uploaded images of Katt Williams, Snoop Dogg, Katya Kharkova and others. Moreover, I have been neutral and factual in my contributions and there have been no embellishments. I am relatively new to Wikipedia and intend to contribute a great deal more going forward. However, it would be helpful in that regard if more experienced editors offered guidance and advice instead of unnecessarily harsh commentary that does not conform with Wiki etiquette.

In response to your feedback

Could you please tell me more about what happened? I tried looking through your contributions but could not figure it out. :)

Tow Trucker talk 00:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

 

Maryse Selit AfD and Civility

Several of your comments on the Maryse Selit AfD are not in the spirit of Wikipedia. Although I agree with you that the AfD is not an appropriate forum for a person to accuse you of having a single-purpose account, nothing is really gained by engaging in personal attacks against admins who you haven't dealt with: "I have no doubt the administrator will vote in your favor, but it will have nothing to do with your allegations of SPAs. Instead, since you nominated this AfD, it does not matter what the discourse is or how many Keeps you get in favor, you'll make sure to find the right people to support your deletion decision and bully them into going along with you." My experience with admins closing AfD is that they are very fair. Although in a few cases I disagreed with an admin's decision, I have never seen a case where I thought they played favorites. NJ Wine (talk) 03:17, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

REPLY TO NJ Wine: Thanks for the note. Your insight and guidance is much appreciated.

Reply

I read the AfD regarding Maryse Selit and have voted based on my best judgement. Please note that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and I have tried to judge if the article is a proper fit for inclusion in Wikipedia. Please note that editors on Wikipedia are volunteers and accusing your fellow editors and getting into arguments does not contribute anything and is bad for the community. The final decision on if this article will be included in Wikipedia will be based on the final consensus from the AfD discussion. Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia :) --Tow Trucker talk 05:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Reply Tow Trucker Thanks for reviewing the article per my request and voting in your best judgment. While I agree that it behoves no one to get into arguments and accuse one another, I think it is extremely bad for the community when editors (whether volunteers or not) make libelous and pejorative comments about the subjects of articles and falsely accuse contributors of acting in bad faith. Once that is done, I certainly believe that a response is warranted. I have documented numerous accounts of such conduct towards the Wiki community by one editor in particular. And, as a lawyer myself, I genuinely believe this behavior must not be tolerated.

Merger of Maryse Selit

I've spent a good deal of time reading about Maryse Selit, and I think she falls in a controversial category called semi-notable. Not everyone at Wikipedia believes in semi-notability, but I believe that the Maryse Selit article contain some material which is notable (e.g., her award for pro-bono work), but also material that is not notable (e.g., her famous house, her appearance on Dr. Oz). Because of that I have added a statement about her in the William & Mary School of Law article. Please review the W&M Law page, particularly the alumni section and the reference at the both that describes her work. I'm sure that in a few years, Maryse Selit will be among the top public interest attorneys in the United States, and then a very large article about her will be written. NJ Wine (talk) 20:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

NJ Wine (talk) Thank you so much for taking the time to do all that research, I really do appreciate it. I did see that your addition was subsequently deleted, however, and have a question about that. Even if Selit does not have an independent article about her on Wiki (b/c independent articles require satisfaction of a higher notability standard) why couldn't what you wrote remain on the W&M alumni section? I see other alumni included on that list that do not have their own Wiki article? The same thing for Watchung residents as well as the list of notable Sri Lankan Americans. There are numerous people currently on those lists that do not have independent Wiki articles (as you will see, their names are in red). Can you advise why she shouldn't remain on the W&M, Watchung, and SL American Wiki entries? Again, many thanks for all your help with this NJWine. (talk) 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maryse Selit

Hello, Lmatt123. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maryse Selit.
Message added -- Trevj (talk) 09:20, 29 May 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Please clarify re Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey)

I wonder if you can clarify a couple of things for me.

• First, what is the basis for the article's assertion that Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey) is "historic?" Can you briefly quote the passages from the DAB, NYT, or Time pieces [1] that discuss the house, other than to say that Eaton built and lived in it? The garden club reference is, unfortunately, a primary source and not usable for notability.
• Second, you identified [2] as "own work" the images of the house which you added [3] to the article. Yet one of those images was identified [4] in promotions of the property as a vacation rental at $1500/night. [5][6] Can you clarify how that came to be?

You can answer here -- I'll be watching this page. Thanks in advance. EEng (talk) 06:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello EEng First, I believe the home is identified as a historic property on the NJ register and is cited as such in a book called "Images of America" by David Page. Second, the pics are my own work and were put up on Flickr by me. They were used by the owners for their rental listing with my permission (I am a lawyer and have worked at the same firm with one of the owners, Ms. Selit). Third, since you are watching this page, can you answer my question to NJ Wine above which he has not answered yet. I am a relatively new user of Wikipedia who contributed a biographical article about Ms. Selit that was deleted due to inadequate references on notability. I am in the process of researching/contesting that deletion, however, in the meantime, I am confused as to why various other references about Selit on Wiki (one of which was contributed by NJ Wine) have also been deleted. As I understand it, the notability requirements only apply to standalone bios/articles and I see numerous people referenced on the Wiki pages for W&M Alumni, Watchung residents and Sri Lankan Americans that do not have standalone Wiki bios or articles. Many thanks for any guidance that you can offer in this regard. lmatt123 (talk) 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're not going to like what I write here, but please believe that I have no personal stake in this and am giving you my best opinion based on my fairly long experience here.

• From the online preview of the Page book I don't see any mention of the Eaton house being on any register etc. -- though admittedly the preview suppresses some pages; even if it did, I know this series of books well -- they are little better than local-history-society compilations with less than careful fact checking. On top of that I checked the NJ Register directly ([7] -- Wachtung is at the end) and no Eaton house is listed there. And (sorry to keep driving more nails into the coffin) even if it was listed (and I know this may sound counterintuitive) that's little guarantee of notability in the Wikipedia sense. As I'm sure you know by now, the test for notability is the existence of multiple, independent, substantial sources (WP:N) on the subject. But (and for perfectly valid reasons) historic registers list structures, statues, and so on which, often, have little or nothing published about them at all. For example, a society of architects may nominate a building for an Historic Register because of some special significance visible e.g. in city records (prominent former owner or occupant, for example) yet there may be no published secondary discussion of it at all, and therefore no Wikipedia notability (at least for now -- if a few people write books or articles about it someday, then at that point a WP article can be written based on those sources). In any event, it neither appears that Eaton House is on any register, nor does there seem to be any significant discussion of it anywhere.

With regard to Ms. Selit, a coupla things:

• Information on Deletion Review is at WP:DELREV. But (a) note that the first thing it tells you to do is discuss the matter with the admin who closed the deletion discussion, who is talk→ BWilkins ←track; and (b) I really think this is a bad idea for you to pursue (see below).
• In all sincerity I advise you to drop the Selit matter. Please read WP:COI carefully again. You are a colleague/friend of hers, and that makes it very hard for you to be neutral about her. And like it or not, the fact that you created an article on her house, and uploaded for that article a photo which just happens to also be used in an advertisement promoting that same house as a very expensive luxury rental, will lead even the most charitably-minded editor to wonder whether you were attempting to promote the rental on her belhalf. I'm sorry, but that's what people will say. As an attorney you know that the appearance of COI is almost as bad as an actual COI.
• Selit sounds like a very nice and accomplished woman, but taking into account both the evidence you've already offered and the sort of evidence you plan to pursue, I see nothing to indicate she's notable in the Wikipedia sense. But I could be wrong. If I am, someone else will write an article about her, with appropriate sources. But let someone else, who doesn't know her personally, read about her in the paper and be so inspired as to start an article on her.
• In the meantime, there are zillions of other articles that need editing or improving which you are no so closely related to.

I'm in a bit of a hurry so the above is a bit rambling. Please try to take it in the spirit in which it's offered. I invite you to ask other experienced editors what they think about what I've written her. You probably should direct them to the deletion discussion as well: [8].:EEng (talk) 03:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

EEng You've made some excellent points here and I'm not offended at all by any of them. While I genuinely believe that an article should be written about Selit because of her notable public interest commitment, I agree with you that a perceived COI is just as bad as a real one and, therefore, will drop the matter as you suggest. Hopefully, someone else who does not know Selit personally will take the time to write an article about her (although, in all honesty, I doubt that any of these articles are written by people who have no connection whatsoever to those about whom they write). In any event, I do see what you are saying, and while I have no personal stake whatsoever in any of this (and my only intention was to acknowledge the commitment and dedication of an individual who does so much for people that society has forgotten), I can see how my point of view might be deemed non-neutral.

If you do get a chance, take a look at the questions I posed to NJ Wine and let me know your thoughts. I am curious about it in general rather than specifically with regards to Selit. Thanks again and all the best. lmatt123 (talk) 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Just a postscript now that it turns out you're a sockpuppet

You're the kind of person that makes it hard to assume good faith in borderline COI situations. Look at all the time of other people you've wasted -- shame on you, an officer of the court! Tell me, counselor, in your opinion does this count as moral turpitude? Lucky for you WP has a no-outing policy. EEng (talk) 00:39, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey)

The article Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

NN house.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Epeefleche (talk) 20:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

"NN house" means non-notable house. Epeefleche (talk) 21:46, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eaton House (Watchung, New Jersey) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Epeefleche (talk) 21:56, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but a recent edit of yours to the page Brian Grazer has an edit summary that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. Please use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did, and feel free to use the sandbox for any tests you may want to do. As here. Epeefleche (talk) 23:32, 20 April 2014 (UTC)