Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Organized crime task force/wikipedia

Updates

Just a few recent updates regarding organized crime related news on wikipedia. Please feel free to add to the list if anyone runs across anything. MadMax 05:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

1. A concern has been raised on Talk:Jewish-American organized crime regarding a controversal external link HRP: The Jewish Mob in America written by a Dr. William Pierce (who may or may not be the neo-Nazi and author of The Turner Diaries William Luther Pierce). While it largely deals with the Russian Mafia and charges its alleged predominatly Jewish membership, it apparently cites souces from the FBI and the NYPD. I've personally found the article to be at least partially inaccurate, however I've placed a template to encourage anyone able verify or disprove its credibility. This seems to be a controversal subject however I'm unsure of Wikipedia's policy oregarding this subject.
2. User:Mafia Expert has suggested a reorganization of organized crime related categories, in particular the renaming of Category:Mafiosi to Category:Criminals among other suggestions. I've suggested any further plans to reorganize might first be suggested by User:Stefanomione, who has long worked on organized crime related categories for at least two years. Any suggestions ?
3. As many of you may be aware, study of organized crime and related subjects has long been subject to innacuracies, contradicting accounts, and underworld myth. This is of course has unfortunatly proved true of crime authors such as Hank Messick, Jay Robert Nash and others such as the ghostwriters of the autobiography of Lucky Luciano. This has, of course, resulted in dispites and edit wars over content as seen in articles including Mafia, National Crime Syndicate, Louis Buchalter, Meyer Lansky and others. What I would propose is the compilation of reliable references and other sources as well as to weed out others which are considered unreliable. (see related discussion at: project)
4. I've been involved in WikiProject British Crime as of late, and it occured to me perhaps some sort of collaboration might be arrainged among crime related WikiProjects. Certainly there are well documented cases of British and Australian organized crime, the former having links to various syndicate casinos in London during the 1950s and 60s.

Articles nominated for deletion

1. Category:German-American mobsters is presently up for deletion in case anyone wants to give their two cents. MadMax 01:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
2. The article Nicholas Bianco has been nominated for deletion. MadMax 13:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
3. The Category:Roman Catholic mobsters and Category:Roman Catholic gangsters has been nominated for deletion.
4. The Category:Irish-American criminals, a parent category used by Category:Irish-American mobsters and Category:Irish-American gang members, has been nominated for deletion.
5. List of Irish-American mobsters has been nominated for deletion.

Misc.

Any good references?

I've been thumbing through google looking for good, informative sites but there are very few out there. I was wondering if anyone has a good stie in particular or maybe a really good book I could pick up at the local library. PeteShanosky 01:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• Mr. Shanosky,

That's a good question, given the large number of websites available on the topic (many of which contradict each other, either directly or indirectly). There are, however, a select few websites from some of the more well known experts on organized crime such as Rick Porello's AmericanMafia.com (not to be confused with the equally impressive American "Mafia" by Thomas P. Hunt) or CrimeMagazine.com. Other well known references include amateur writers such as GangRule.com and Kenny Torrio's Mafia-International. There are also several websites focusing on one specific area such as The Tampa Mob: A story of the Trafficante crime family and ClevelandMob.com. A recommended reference page would make a good addition to the page. I primarily use Jay Robert Nash's Encyclopedia of World Crime series and Carl Sifakis's Mafia Encyclopedia as well as other various sources. Most libraries, at least in the general area, should have at least one of those two authors. MadMax 01:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, finally some good reference sites. Like you mentioned, a lot of the other sites seemed to disagree with each other, dispite all claiming to be experts on the subject. PeteShanosky 03:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

• Unfortunatly a large part of organized crime's history is based on underworld legends and popular rumors of the day, much of which is disputed even among traditional sources such as Henry Asbury's "The Gangs of New York" (as does other books which offer contradictory information). Much of the information on various websites are taken from these sources resulting in contradicting sources and untimatly adds to the confusion. MadMax 21:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Jay Robert Nash sources

• May I mention that Jay Robert Nash isn't a reliable source because it contains fake entries, biaised information and false statements in order to sue other people copying from his material. Lincher 18:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

• This does raise a valid point. Should Nash be removed as a reliable source, as he is used in many sources both online and otherwise ? Even I can admit to various errors within the Encyclopedia of World Crime series, although many of these may simply be typos and other printing errors given the later revised editions. Also, for the three sole members who may or may not be reading this, it would be greatly appreciated if using Nash as a secondary reference and, if possible, to list any recent organized contributions using Nash as a reference to either myself or Lincher. MadMax 19:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Merge and/or future collaberation with WikiProject Mafia

• In attempt to try and jump start a discussion here, it's recently come to my attention that a similar project was started by User:Extofer in March 2006. I have spoken with him and he seems to be interested in at least a possible collaboration with this project in the future. The "Honorary Members" section not withstanding, as neither groups have a significant amount of members of the five needed to become an official project (with three members including myself and Extofer as the sole member of his), would anyone have any objections to asking Extofer if he would consider merging both groups ? I certainly don't see a conflict of interest on this end as a large focus of this project focuses on much of the American Mafia. MadMax 19:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

• It sounds good to me. It would increase effectiveness of both projects and I can't see it creating any problems, unless for some reason we do not get along, which I seriously doubt will be the case. The two projects themselves are quite similar and I like the idea of a merge. PeteShanosky 23:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

While it looks like there are no objections however, as the project page was recently deleted I'm unsure what the status of the project (or the project leader's interest) is at the moment. I'll try to contact him on his talk page to see what I can find out. MadMax 06:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

List reorganization

An issue regarding the nessessity of alphabetising lists has been brought up on Talk:List of Irish-American mobsters. It's been proposed the section headers be deleted, given the relatively small size of the list, or reformat the list altogether. Should this be proposed for the other lists ? MadMax 19:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Possible References

Considering how easily organized crime falls into the realm of myth, perhaps first-hand accounts should be considered for references? The recent turnover of ex-members of organized crime is a great resource. Americanmafia.com, though it can be full of posturing "wanna-bes" has many articles featuring discussion with ex-members or associates of the American Mafia (Sicilian.) I found this article to be especially educational, and the question-answer sessions would be a great Wikipedia resource. In my opinion, the Mafia article needs a lot of work, mainly in organization of the talk page communication and more control of changes. It's understandable not everyone has time to read a whole book, which even then makes many assumptions, unless written by an ex-member, so the on-line interviews may be helpful. --Somethingironic 12:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Timeline complete

• Just thought I'd mention the Timeline of organized crime now lists every year from 1880 to 2006. I'd just like to thank everyone for their contributions and hard work which made this possible. MadMax 20:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Good work, I wish I had the time to keep on with 2006 in organized crime but it took so many hours of work each week. :(

--Alexbonaro 00:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem Alexbonaro. I'm hoping the 2006 page will serve as a model for the rest of the timeline entries eventually. MadMax 06:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Crime

A proposal for WikiProject Crime is presntly being discussed. MadMax 19:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The project has official begun at WP:CRIME. MadMax 19:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal

A proposal to merge the articles Street gangs and Gangster (which has been proposed to merge with Gang) has been suggested. MadMax 19:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

User page related to this project

The following user page may be of interest to this project: User:MadMax/Organized crime. Northamerica1000^(talk) 02:40, 2 February 2012 (UTC)