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Your editing of Séadna

Hi, Angr. How far did you get with Séadna? As far as I can see the proofreading stops about half-way in the book. Is that right? are you still proceeding slowly? do you know exactly where you got? I know someone in the Cork Gaeltacht who would consider recording Séadna on MP3s to be uploaded onto Wikipedia if the whole text were available in Roman cló.Djwebb1969 (talk) 14:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I got up to page 182, i.e. about halfway through chapter 21. I haven't been working on it since July, though, because I've had other things on my plate. A recording would be great! The whole text is available, it's just not all proofread yet. +Angr 14:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I made minor edits to chapter 1 today - all in line with the DJVU file. There were 4 instances of inte instead of inte, one of aoirde instead of aoírde, suidhe instead of suídhe, and some cases where a relative particle was lacking in the original, but had crept in in the transcription. I hope you don't mind me checking your work! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djwebb1969 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Not at all, four eyes are better than two in proofreading! (But what do you mean "inte instead of inte"?) +Angr 15:20, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you check the history files (eg http://wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=S%C3%A9adna%2FPage_6&diff=262583&oldid=251973) you will see that I changed "inte" to "inti" 4 times on page 6 - and you will see that that is correct according to the original text. By the way, I have a litriú simplí version of Séadna. And on archive.org there is also a translation of Séadna - it would be nice to see the side-by-side translation, but also boring to transcribe it. I thought I would draw your attention to the translation available though. I think the file on archive.org is called shianafromirish00oleauoft.pdf.Djwebb1969 (talk) 15:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a litriú simplí version of Séadna too; that's what the unproofread text is based on. I have the translation as well, but that would belong at en-wikisource, not multilingual Wikisource. +Angr 15:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Angr, litriú simplí does not refer to the modern spelling text that your unproofread text is based on, but to Shan Ó Cuív's attempt in the early 20th century to make a phonetic spelling for Irish based on Cork pronunciation!! Maybe the litriú simplí deserves a Wikipedia page in itself. There were newspapers (Glór na Ly) and allsorts in this phonetic spelling once. In litriú simplí, the first few lines of Séadna are:

Nóra- A Feg, inish shgiàl dúing.

Peg - B'ah lium sun! Inish fen shgial.

Gobanuit. - Níl än vah inti, a Feg. B'eár ling do shgiàlsa.

Shíli. - Din, a Feg, bemíd ana hocuir.

Peg. - Nách mah nár anuish socuir araer, nuer a ví "Madara na Nocht Gos" agum á ínshint!

And so on. The value of litriú simplí is that it shows the Cork pronunciation. I looked up faghtar yesterday in your Séadna and found the corresponding passage in the litriú simplí edition and it told me the pronunciation was "faytar". Djwebb1969 (talk) 15:55, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Cool, I didn't know about that. That it tells you the Cork pronunciation is good; otherwise I find it unreadable! +Angr 15:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

That translation of Séadna available as a PDF is being sold as a rare book on abebooks (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=Shiana&x=0&y=0) for $2500!

The 2 people involved with Simplified Spelling were Shán Ó Cuív (hence the spelling ofhis name, originally Seaghán Ua Caoimh) and Osborn Bergin. There are 2 books on archive.org in simplified spelling. See http://www.archive.org/details/cuneartlaereeil00cugoog, which is Caoineadh Áirt Uí Laoghaire converted into litriú simplí, and Irish Made EAsy, a book by Shán Ó Cuív explaining the Simplified Irish system, at http://www.archive.org/details/irishmadeeasybe00cugoog. Neither of these can be easily downloaded to hard disc, as Google seems to have disabled the PDF, but they can be viewed on DJVU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djwebb1969 (talk • contribs) 16:21, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

The PDF download from Google Books might be available only to people in the U.S.; I know that happens sometimes. +Angr 16:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I got the PDFs by going through a proxy server based in the US. (Note to Google: these out of copyright books do not belong to the United States.) So do you think an article on the simplified spelling system would be useful? I could rustle one up based on the book by Ó Cuív over the next day or two? Djwebb1969 (talk) 16:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I think an article on the simplified spelling would be great, especially if you can find more sources for it than just the Ó Cuív book. (It isn't that Google thinks that the out of copyright books belong to the United States, it's that books published before 1923 are PD in the U.S., but not necessarily so elsewhere. For example, Solomon Birnbaum's first book was published in 1918, when he was a sprightly young lad of 26, but he lived to be 98, so (the first edition of) that book is PD in the U.S., but won't be PD in the EU until 1 January 2060!) +Angr 16:45, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

There's a newspaper letter by the Minister for the Gaeltacht, Eamonn O Cuiv, at http://www.dinglename.com/articles/article.asp?a=56, where he explains why his name was changed. Funny he calls is leitriú shimplí, with lenition, but litriú should be a masculine noun?? Oh I get it, "leitriú shimplí" with the "sh" is itself in the simplified script, where "sh" corresponds to a slender s. I think the Internet is meant to get round barriers like "EU laws differing from US laws". Shán Ó Cuív died in 1955 - does that mean his books are not out of copyright until 2025? It is probably possible to find out who owns the copyright - many of these books were printed by the Educational Company of Ireland and the copyright is owned by the state **I think** and the Údarás could help out in gaining authorisation to use it. Why is more than one source required? I Have about 20 copies of the litriú simplí newspaper Glór na Ly. The trouble is, books written in the script are exceedingly rare. It was Shán Ó Cuív's attempt to make a Caighdeán Oifigeamhail based on Muskerry Irish!! Would that it had been successful! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djwebb1969 (talk • contribs) 16:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, his books won't be out of copyright in the EU until 1 January 2026. However, Multilingual Wikisource accepts works that are PD in the U.S. even if they aren't PD in their native country. Regardless of who currently owns the copyright, it's considered to be valid until the end of the 70th calendar year after the author's death. For the article, it's good to use more than one source to show its notability, but it's not required. And of course it doesn't have to be multiple sources in litriú simplí, but multiples sources about litriú simplí. What books or articles have been written about the history of attempts to simplify Irish spelling? +Angr 17:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll leave it, because I don't have a history of attempts to simplify Irish spelling. Anyway...Djwebb1969 (talk) 21:09, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

List of overweight actors in United States cinema

You edited this article. This is a friendly notice that your input would be welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of overweight actors in United States cinema. This information is provided without any request that you support or oppose the deletion of the article. Thanks. Edison (talk) 04:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Why I am closing my Wikipedia account

Hi, I have done a lot of work transcribing things for Wikipedia, but I cannot carry on doing things for an organization that is run by a bunch of extreme anti-European hatemongerers. I can do no more for this company. Have you seen the English Defence League page, where user Verbal keeps insisting the group is "far right" without any evidence for this at all. POV is permitted in each case to left wingers on this "encyclopaedia". To be quite honest, I am disgusted with this company. So I won't complete my transcription of Laoghaire's 4 gospels, or Mo Sgéal Féin, or do anything else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djwebb1969 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Interesting! Well, I am European and I rather like England and France. There are plenty of RS for far right, and the talk pages consensus that this should be included. However, I do invite Djwebb1969 to engage constructively on the article talk page. It would be a shame to lose a good editor. Verbal chat 18:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

No, you've lost me. The article on the English Defence League says around half-way down that the newspapers have claimed the group is far-right. That is correct -they have made that claim. Beyond that is POV. The statement in the first few sentences that the group is definitely far-right is actually not true - they have ethnic minority members, and are actually just sticking up for their country. Presumably any public involvement in policy on immigration is by definition far-right for you. You would think it would be rather confrontational for the "Unite Against Fascist" lot to have a policy of organizing counter-demonstrations on the same spot where any demonstrations against immigration are taking place. That can only cause confrontation. It should be the law that if you wish to hold a counter-demo, it has to be in another place - otherwise you will be just trying to create violence. The EDL does well not rising to the bait of groups like the UAF that do openly espouse violence. I am leaving Wikipedia, because of the free use of POV by the left, but suddenly when anyone not on the left wants to edit something - that's not OK. You are a foaming at the mouth member of the far left, and I regret I contributed anything to Wikipedia at all. I planned to transcribe a lot of old Irish books and get audio files done and uploaded (and the audio files are not free - the audio files I have uploaded to Wikisource for the book Mo Sgéal Féin cost me a 4-figure sum, as I don't assume readers will work for nothing. Good job I only uploaded the first 8 audio files, and not the audio files for the other 24 chapters also. You have lost a good editor by closing off Wikipedia to any contributions not by the far left. Djwebb1969 (talk) 19:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why a dispute at Wikipedia should lead you stop editing Wikisource. They're both owned by the Wikimedia Foundation, but they are independent projects, and there are plenty of people who are active at one and not at the other. +Angr 20:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why he should close any account. However, could you (as he seems to trust you) give him some advice? This edit isn't acceptable. Verbal chat 20:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I have blanked my talk page and logged out. They have refused to delete my account. So that's all I can do. Angr, I want you to know I will transcribe things in Irish on my own site at http://corkirish.com/wordpress/. You can see I have put Matthew 1-10 in Irish there, and will complete the project there. Also I will upload MP3s of Irish by native speakers on that site. Of course by putting them in the public domain I will not prevent you from using them on this or any other site, but I just won't help out such an extreme organization. There is no greater bigotry than left-wing bigotry, whose practitioners all claim to be motivated by love for the world etc. I have had enough of the bigotry. I just wanted to give you the link in case you were interested in my various Cork Irish projects.

Orphaned fair-use image

Hi, File:D3 Vault of the Drow.jpg is nominated for deletion. Regards Hekerui (talk) 10:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Request for Help, please

Greetings Angr,

Nice to meet you.

Could you kindly help me rewrite these 5 Gaeilge passages into the proper Gaeilge language? (based on the english version):

• Tá fála an Spiorad Naomh, a léirítear ag labhairt i tongues, an ráthaíocht ar ár n-oidhreacht Ríocht na Heaven.
• (Receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is the guarantee of our inheritance of the Kingdom of Heaven)

• Tá Uisce Baisteadh an sacrament do loghadh na peacaí agus athghiniúna. Bíonn an baptism ar siúl i gcónaí uisce nádúrtha, mar shampla an abhainn, farraige, nó san earrach. An Baptist, duine a bhí faighte cheana féin baptism an uisce agus an Spiorad Naomh, a stiúrann an Baisteadh in ainm an Tiarna Íosa Críost. Agus ba cheart an duine a fhaigheann an Baisteadh a bheith tumtha go hiomlán i uisce le ceann bowed agus aghaidh síos
• (Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins and for regeneration. The baptism takes place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, whom had already received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism should be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward)

• Cuireann an sacrament an níochán cosa amháin a bheith páirteach leis an Tiarna Íosa. Feidhmíonn sé freisin mar tairiseach gcuimhne gur chóir go mbeadh aon ghrá, holiness, humility, maithiúnas agus seirbhíse. Gach duine a fuair uisce baptism Ba chóir go mbeadh a chosa nite in ainm Íosa Críost. Féadfaidh Frithpháirteach troigh níocháin a chleachtadh nuair is cuí
• (The sacrament of feet washing enables one to have a part with the Lord Jesus. It also serves as a constant reminder that one should have love, holiness, humility, forgiveness and service. Every person who has received water baptism should have their feet washed in the name of Jesus Christ. Mutual feet washing may be practiced whenever is appropriate)

• Is é an Communion Naofa an sacrament chun comóradh an bás an Tiarna Íosa Críost. Cuireann sé ar chumas dúinn páirt a ghlacadh ar an flesh agus fola ar ár Tiarna agus a bheith i communion leis ionas gur féidir linn a saoil eternal agus a tógadh ar an lá deiridh. Ba chóir an sacrament bheith ar siúl chomh minic agus is féidir. Níl ach amháin arán unleavened agus sú Úrfhíon fíonchaor a úsáidtear
• (The Holy Communion is the sacrament to commemorate the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. It enables us to partake of the flesh and blood of our Lord and to be in communion with Him so that we can have eternal life and be raised on the Last Day. This sacrament should be held as often as possible. Only one unleavened bread and grape juice is used)

• An lá Sabóid, an seachtú lá na seachtaine (Dé Satharn) é, Lá Naofa, agus bheannaigh sanctified le Dia. Tá sé faoi deara cairde an Tiarna do na comóradh cruthú Dia agus salvation agus leis an dóchas an chuid eile eternal i saol atá le teacht.
• (The Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week (Saturday), is a Holy Day, blessed and sanctified by God. It is observed under the Lord's grace for the commemoration of God's creation and salvation and with the hope of eternal rest in the life to come)

Your help would be very Gratefully Appreciated, Thankyou very much. --Jose77 (talk) 23:25, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

(In return, I can also help you translate your favourite articles into the Chinese, Japanese, or Minnan language)

Sorry, my Irish isn't good enough that I can copyedit it; you'll need to get a native or near-native speaker to do that! But I can give you some vocabulary to replace the English words in the above:

• in tongues = i dteangacha
• Kingdom of Heaven = Ríocht na bhFlaitheas
• sacrament = sacraimint
• baptism = baisteadh
• Baptist = Baiste (in the sense of John the Baptist, not the modern denomination)
• holiness = naofacht
• humility = uirísle
• Holy Communion = Comaoineach Naofa
• flesh = feoil
• in communion with him = i rannpháirteachas leis
• unleavened = gan laibhín
• sanctified = beannaithe
• salvation = slánú

+Angr 06:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Copasetic request

Hi. I'd like to get a copy of the former article Copasetic undeleted in my userspace. We're having a long discussion at WT:NOTDIC that it might be relevant to examine that example for. (Regarding whether "encyclopedic treatments" of words should be deleted entirely, given that wiktionary doesn't want those contents...) Much thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 18:45, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Much thanks. I've added on to the thread at Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia is not a dictionary#Copasetic example with that article and your closing statement used as primary discussion points. You might have your own insights there, or might like to lurk and read background threads for a while first. (It's a long and historically troublesome disagreement, so be forwarned that tempers can occasionally get heated there ;) Thanks again. -- Quiddity (talk) 22:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

re: the parable

that should work but one could argue that wikipedia covers non-free material while vegan alternatives to animal products do not quite do the same

it is possible to have a wikipedia without non-free images, it's just that consensus finds it a bit inane to take the fair use right "for granted" and just scrap it because it's "conflicting"; "fair use" does not quite conflict with "free" here, as "fair use" is still technically "free" in the sense that you are allowed to do it without charge or other restrictions other than the actual restriction known as "fair use"

maybe I'm wording this wrong

also I'd like to know if English language has a significant British English slant, so someone could check for consistency Elm-39 - T/C/N 17:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I think one of the great things about the free content movement is proving we can do without nonfree content. English language shouldn't have a particular British slant, per WP:NPOV, though it is written in British English for historical reasons. +Angr 18:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Transport in Berlin

Hello Angr, I think the last paragraph in the article got nothing to do with the topic and should be deleted. Frankfurt and Munich Airport don't belong in here. The writer seems to dislike Berlin. The night flight restrictions mentioned in the sentence before are a fact and have been widely published in German media, but then again I don't really think this belongs in here either. What are your thoughts? Joerg--BajanZindy (talk) 21:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)