MarkamBey

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Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (FC Barcelona Wikipedia page)

Hello MarkamBey

After reading the discussion on the FC Barcelona page it apparently appears that the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is NOT a trophy recognized by UEFA, although it is seen as the forerunner to the UEFA CUP, currently Europa League Cup.

Then there is the question; Should we include it, but clearly state that is is not a recognized trophy by UEFA currently. If not, then you and other editors should remove the trophy from every clubs Wikipedia page.

I still think we should include it but clearly state that as of now it is unofficial according to UEFA (as I did in my edit) but it is still listed on FIFA's webpage and FC Barcelonas webpage (among others).

What do you think?

Not trying to start a edit war I just think we should discuss it instead of deleting it right away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 11:42, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I also think you should take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_records_in_Spain and clearly state which trophies are official and which are not as the editors are apparently unaware that the Copa Eva Duarte trophy was recognized by the RFEF as well as the Copa de La Liga and that the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, although being the forerunner for the UEFA CUP is not recognized as a official trophy by UEFA.

Thank you in advance.

Thanks for your message Suitcivil133,

Pages have been edited since my last edits, but I agree with all of your comments. I think that we should separate official from non-official trophies when enumerating them on club pages, and/or provide a footnote explaining the reasons behind the different treatment.

About the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_records_in_Spain page, I have included my comments on the discussion page, and at the time the overall trophies table was correct, i.e. it included the Copa Eva Duarte but not the Interfairs Cup. Now it again includes the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup but not the Eva Duarte Cup, so I will go back to the discussion page and ask to revert to the previous edit.

Again thanks for your message, all very good points.

MarkamBey (talk) 11:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem, and thank you for your response.

I fully agree on your advice of a footnote. That could be used in connection to the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, who a lot of people mistakenly cosinder as a official trophy (also a lot of Wikipedia pages of football clubs who have won it has included it).

But since it is recognized by UEFA as the forunner for the current Europa League I should we should include it in the main page (in the honours section of course) although clearly clarify that it is unoffical as of current.

We could also do the same with another major unofficial trophy (Latin Cup) who also is regarded as the forerunner for the European Cup.

So my advice would be to make a seperate section in the honours page (in the main page) of major unoffical trophies and include those two trophies (of course not Copa Catalunya etc.)

What regard you edits in the Spanish Record page I fully agree, although you could make a seperate section/table of the Copa Eva Duarte trophy instead of merging it into the Spanish Supercopa section/table. If you do that you avoid confusion. I could be wrong of course but that is just my opnion;).

But as you can see I am not used to use Wikipedia and therefore not 100 percent comfortable with making such big changes in the edits, otherwise I would have done it myself.

PS:

Could you also please tell Strawberry on Vanilla (one of the editors in this page) not to remove my edit regarding the domestic honours section (I only made it clear which domestic trophies were championships and which were cups, but he deleted it). If you take a look at all the Wikipedia pages of football clubs in Italy, Germany, and UK they also make a distinction between domestic championships and cups.

Thank you in advance again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 14:17, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your message Suitcivil133,

I think that your ideas are good, I'll try to work on the honours sections little by little when I have some time. About the Spanish Honors page, at first I thought about separating the Eva Duarte as before, but since it is a direct predecessor of the Supercopa, I thought that it would be kind of a waste to devote one column to a trophy that was disputed under that name in only seven occasions, and opted to pool them together and put a footnote. However, I stand to be corrected, I don't think it would be worse to have it listed separately, either.

Have a good weekend! MarkamBey (talk) 14:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edits to the FC Barcelona article

I would just say thank you again for clarifying the history of the Copa Eva Duarte trophy. Although I speak Spanish I had not noticed that the Copa Eva Duarte first became a offical competition recognized and founded by the RFEF in 1947 where it also became a annual competition. So you are completely right to state that FC Barcelona's 1945 trophy is unoffical, primary sources support your view on that as well as the Spanish version of the Copa Eva Duarte Wikipedia page as well as FC Barcelona's Spanish Wikipedia page.

Sorry for my English btw, and I unfortunately don't have much time today to make the editions you put forward, although I have corrected the honours section on the main page regarding the Copa Eva Duarte trophy. But If you are not able to do it today I could easily correct the English version of the Copa Eva Duarte Wikipedia page (make it similar to the Spanish one) tomorrow and find a solution to the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup dilemma. (see the earlier discussion on this in the discussion section of FC Barcelona's English Wikipedia page )

Que tengas un buen día! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 10:30, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, thanks for your note! :) MarkamBey (talk) 11:46, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Question regarding the English FC Barcelona Wikipedia page

Hello MarkamBey

First of all thank you for your recent edits to the English FC Barcelona Wikipedia page.

I was thinking if you could be able to make a reference to these two following Wikipedia articles when the main article mentions overall trophies and being one of the most successful teams in Europe (and the world).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_club_competition_winners

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confederation_and_inter-confederation_club_competition_winners

Just like the reference used in this sentence in the introduction section of the club.

"They are the current Spanish and European football champions, and the most successful club in Spanish football in terms of domestic and overall trophies[3],"

I hope you understand what I mean, if not sorry for my English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 26 August 2011 (UTC) 

Copa Eva Duarte trophy

Hello again.

Sorry for bothering you, but I have just updated the Atlético Madrid and Athletic Bilbao English Wikipedia pages regarding the Copa Eva Duarte trophy (with references) and I have also updated the English article about the Copa Eva Duarte trophy, althouh I lack some references, or should I just use the one you did in the FC Barcelona page?

If you could take a look at the page I would appreciate it.;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

I would say that the reference from La Vanguardia is valid for all, since it shows that the Eva Duarte was organized by the RFEF. I will take a look at the pages later, thanks for your contributions! MarkamBey (talk) 23:56, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

My recent edits.

I finally made all those above mentioned additions myself, so you and other editors can judge them by yourselves, although it should be correct.;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

The record section on FC Barcelona's main page

Hello MarkamBey

Could you or another regular editor rewrite the records section on the main page? It is not in accordance with the rest of the article as of today;).

I made a few edits in the past days which you can take a look at if there are any English mistakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitcivil133 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

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