User talk:Mellk/Archive 4
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I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Mellk. Thank you for your work on Loshnitsa. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
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Belarusian placenames
FYI, I started Category:Set index articles on populated places in Belarus. If you notice other Belarusian placename homonymy, please populate it or let me know. - Altenmann >talk 19:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- OK, thanks. I already created a few disambiguation pages e.g. Zamastochcha, should I convert those? Mellk (talk) 20:02, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
On note of the Belarusians flag
The rationale behind it was it's common use by Belarusian cultural organisations throughout the world
Here's some examples off of commons
Also, here are some links to google i could find of this flag being in use.
I hope this is sufficient. 🤓 WeaponizingArchitecture | scream at me 🤓 07:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, you are correct that it is still widely used, particularly by diaspora, but I still do not think that this can be considered an ethnic flag. The template documentation for Template:Infobox ethnic group says:
Please be cautious about using this: most ethnic groups do not have a strongly associated flag.
. Perhaps you can check if any WP:RS refer to it as such? Thanks. Mellk (talk) 07:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrain War
Hi. You said, "Due to WP:RUSUKR, editors who are not extended confirmed (<500 edits) are unable to make edits about the Russia-Ukraine war, but can still leave constructive comments on the talk page or edit requests.". it would nice if there was a Protected or semi-protected notice on the page. There isn't one that I could find.PaPiker (talk) 18:36, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Page protection is one way of enforcement, but it is not really feasible to protect all pages with such content. It also says:
On any page where the restriction is not enforced through extended confirmed protection, this restriction may be enforced by other methods, including page protection, reverts, blocks, the use of pending changes, and appropriate edit filters.
Mellk (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
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Sockpuppet
Sorry, I don't know how to say it for competent user, But it seems, that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cavide96 is a sockpuppet of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Andriyrussu Noel baran (talk) 15:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Seems possible, I was watching Viktor Tsukanov and noticed they restored the sock edit. Do you have any other diffs that could be used as evidence? If you are unable to, I can submit a new case at WP:SPI. Mellk (talk) 17:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know exactly, but he made a typical editions (for Andriyrussu) with surnames and collided with another user: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cavide96. And all these editions, for example here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yvan_Dibango&action=history. Andriyrussu, after - 213.110.126.122 (maybe him), followed with his "reincarnation" Naxsy, and ended with Cavide96. Also Naxsy was blocked on 7 March and its created on 9 March ([[1]]). Noel baran (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the account was indeed a sockpuppet and is now blocked. Mellk (talk) 03:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the help! Noel baran (talk) 04:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- I do not think they are going to stop creating new accounts soon so if you notice any new accounts you can open a new case at the SPI (or add to open ones). Mellk (talk) 09:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, you are right, is created a new one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BunicaValea Noel baran (talk) 15:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- But I see, that it was already reported at the SPI--Noel baran (talk) 15:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, you are right, is created a new one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BunicaValea Noel baran (talk) 15:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- I do not think they are going to stop creating new accounts soon so if you notice any new accounts you can open a new case at the SPI (or add to open ones). Mellk (talk) 09:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the help! Noel baran (talk) 04:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the account was indeed a sockpuppet and is now blocked. Mellk (talk) 03:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know exactly, but he made a typical editions (for Andriyrussu) with surnames and collided with another user: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cavide96. And all these editions, for example here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yvan_Dibango&action=history. Andriyrussu, after - 213.110.126.122 (maybe him), followed with his "reincarnation" Naxsy, and ended with Cavide96. Also Naxsy was blocked on 7 March and its created on 9 March ([[1]]). Noel baran (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
I have sent you a note about a page you started
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Vladimir-Suzdal chronicle(s)
Hi Mellk, I wonder if you would be interested in helping me write a new article on what is variously called the "Vladimir-Suzdal chronicle(s)", "Vladimir chronicle(s)", "Suzdal(ian) chronicle(s)", "Suzdal-Vladimirian Chronicle(s)", or "north-eastern Rus' chronicle(s)" (e.g. ru:Русские летописи#Летописи Северо-Восточной Руси)? I've been trying to set up a draft over here: User:Nederlandse Leeuw/SVC. But I can't really get a proper definition or scope of what it is, what it is or should be called, whether there was or is one or multiple "chronicles", and what we can say about it.
Currently, I think scholars are talking about essentially the same text covering the years c. 1177 to 1203, written in Vladimir on the Klyazma, probably in several stages (linguist Timberlake 2000 has identified 5 segments), and having been preserved in the Laurentian Codex (Lav.), the Chronicler of Pereyaslavl in Suzdal (ru:Летописец Переяславля Суздальского, LPS), the Radziwiłł Chronicle (Rad.), and the Academic Chronicle (Aka.). (There are probably later textual witnesses as well, but these 4 seem to be the most important). But elsewhere I am getting the impression that "Suzdalian Chronicle" just means everything in Lav. after the PVL, so 1117 to 1305. But the 1117 to 1177 content is usually identified as sharing a common ancestor with the Kievan Chronicle, scholarly known as the "Southern Rus' source", while the 1204-1284 seems to be a unique Laurentian continuation of the Vladimir-Suzdal chronicle, and the last few decades are commonly identified as copied from a lost Tver Codex of 1305.
All of this is a bit confusing to me, to put it mildly. ;) I've tried to visualise it here: User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Timeline Rus' chronicles manuscripts. I hope this can give some valuable insights into what we are talking about. Anyway, are you interested and able to help me write this article? I would imagine there is a lot of Russian-language scholarly literature on the topic that I cannot easily access and understand. If you're busy doing other things, that's fine. Cheers, NLeeuw (talk) 12:46, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- I will have to look into it further but maybe the following is useful: [2] Mellk (talk) 12:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hey, I decided to publish it under the title Suzdalian Chronicle. If you've got some additions, feel free to add them. Cheers, NLeeuw (talk) 05:36, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Boris Yeltsin
Hello, I propose not to delete the important information about Boris Yeltsin's presidency. Please, first you have to discuss it on a talk page of the article. FlorianH76 (talk) 10:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- The chronology does not make sense, first it says he ruled a hybrid regime with a superpresidential system then it discusses his initial reforms and the 1993 crisis with parliament, which happened before the superpresidential system was established. Also, none of this is discussed in the body. See MOS:LEAD. Mellk (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, maybe we can simply put this information after the sentence where the 1993 crisis is mentioned? FlorianH76 (talk) 11:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- I already moved the text about super-presidential system to the section about the crisis. I also think saying he "ruled a hybrid regime" is a bit vague, though. Mellk (talk) 11:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- For example, look at these articles: Nursultan Nazarbayev, Ilham Aliyev. As you can notice in the articles about authoritarian leaders it is always mentioned what type of regime they established. Please, return the important iformation about Boris Yeltsin's political regime. FlorianH76 (talk) 22:15, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I already moved the text about super-presidential system to the section about the crisis. I also think saying he "ruled a hybrid regime" is a bit vague, though. Mellk (talk) 11:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, maybe we can simply put this information after the sentence where the 1993 crisis is mentioned? FlorianH76 (talk) 11:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Medieval Russian writers
A tag has been placed on Category:Medieval Russian writers indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 14:56, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
My edits
Good day! Please tell me why you are canceling my edits? I will be grateful for an explanation in advance.--Alex091981 (talk) 13:14, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Please see WP:SEEALSO for guidance. Mellk (talk) 13:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I read the instructions. I seem to have added everything correctly, according to what was written: One purpose of "See also" links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics; however, articles linked should be related to the topic of the article.... All the links I have included are related to the topic. I'm not vandalizing, I'm adding links based on my editorial judgment and common sense.--Alex091981 (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- You are adding those links to articles that are high-level overviews of those entities. Moreover, the articles you created look like WP:POVFORKs of the respective history articles. If you disagree, you can start a discussion on the talk page, if you so wish. Mellk (talk) 15:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I read the instructions. I seem to have added everything correctly, according to what was written: One purpose of "See also" links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics; however, articles linked should be related to the topic of the article.... All the links I have included are related to the topic. I'm not vandalizing, I'm adding links based on my editorial judgment and common sense.--Alex091981 (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
April 2024 Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion
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Hello. Could you please look at this article and the currently ongoing edit war? 212.3.130.232 (talk) 20:38, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- This editor has for a long time been making unsourced and disruptive changes. If it continues and they do not respond on their talk page, please raise this on WP:ANI. Mellk (talk) 16:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Regarding removal of Category:Former capitals of Ukraine from some pages
While I agree with the removal of Volodymyr from the category (the Principality of Volhynia isn't exactly "Ukraine"), I don't see why Chyhyryn, Baturyn, and Hlukhiv should be removed. They were all capitals of the Cossack Hetmanate, which can be considered the first Ukrainian state. In some documents of the period (such as the Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk) the Hetmanate is actually called Ukraine. Shwabb1 (talk) 15:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- From my understanding, this category is a subcat of Category:Former national capitals which is intended for former capitals of modern nations. The first bulletpoint for not included in the criteria says:
Former capitals of countries that no longer exist (see Category:Capitals of former nations), unless they were also capitals of yet-existing countries.
- Since the Hetmanate went out of existence and those capitals did not become capitals of Ukraine later, I am not sure if they should be included. But the criteria is not as clear as I would like. Perhaps we can include those cities in Category:Capitals of former nations instead? Mellk (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, the criteria are somewhat ambiguous. Looking at the other "Former capitals" categories, I see that some of them include cities that don't even exist anymore (e.g., Tigranocerta from 1st century BC for Armenia). And Category:Former capital cities in India includes over 200 pages!
- Including the capitals of the Hetmanate in Category:Capitals of former nations makes sense, but applying the same to all the other categories might take a while... Shwabb1 (talk) 17:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- I am not opposed to including them again to Category:Former capitals of Ukraine (if we want to have a loose definition of "country") since it is not applied evenly but we would just need to include a hatnote explaining this (e.g. "this category is for former capitals of Ukraine since the establishment of the Cossack Hetmanate"). At least until someone sorts out the parent category. Mellk (talk) 17:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'm fine with either option (Category:Capitals of former nations or Category:Former capitals of Ukraine+hatnote), as long as these three cities are presented as former capitals somewhere. Everything considered, I'm not certain which choice is better. Shwabb1 (talk) 17:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- I am not opposed to including them again to Category:Former capitals of Ukraine (if we want to have a loose definition of "country") since it is not applied evenly but we would just need to include a hatnote explaining this (e.g. "this category is for former capitals of Ukraine since the establishment of the Cossack Hetmanate"). At least until someone sorts out the parent category. Mellk (talk) 17:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Please take part in relevant discussions when reverting
[3] and Talk:Crimea#Many_more_pro-Russian_protesters. Rsk6400 (talk) 13:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- You wrote in the edit summary: "Removing the misleading first sentence: Occupation was not caused by protests". But, the text does not say this. Therefore, you were reverted for using a misleading edit summary. Mellk (talk) 13:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Removal of significant wikibox info on Russian Civil War
Respectfully, what in God's name made you think to remove all the information about participants in the Russian Civil War from the wikibox? It's good and useful information, especially with the links to other pages. You should really stop this. Koss1919 (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- There was a RfC on the talk page that just ended. Here is what the closer wrote:
The outcome of this RfC is that editors may put in option B, and after they have done so, may further edit option B to reduce the bloat. Editors are asked please not to restore option A or make edits that increase the rendered size or byte count of the infobox
. We are not supposed to restore option A or add to the infobox because it was bloated. Mellk (talk) 18:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
July 2024
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to Name of Ukraine and this edit to Iryna Farion, you may be blocked from editing. TheWestBelongsToUkraine (talk) 21:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, then what? Mellk (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- He must be blocked Marcus Master (talk) 16:15, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, they were blocked. Mellk (talk) 16:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- He must be blocked Marcus Master (talk) 16:15, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Mellk, why you without explanation deleting updates?
First of all, my updates were much more relevant to scientific point of view, you better leave comment why there is ignorant and propagandistic part of wiki could be left this way instead of using more objective and more scientific points. We can discuss via email, or add your comment what should be proved with link or so Marcus Master (talk) 16:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would suggest to check the WP policies first. You keep making unsourced changes. See WP:V. Mellk (talk) 16:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- You already received several warnings for this as well, with the relevant links for guidance, but you are still repeating this behavior. Mellk (talk) 16:22, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Reverted Theofan Prokopovich edit
Why? As far as I understand, the modern name of the Ukrainian capital should be generally used. Furthermore, the linked sources also state clearly that he was also a Ukrainian, so including his name in Ukrainian is entirely valid. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 14:31, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Consensus is detailed here. Mellk (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- You also made several other unexplained and unsourced changes. Mellk (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- The only other changes besides Kiev -> Kyiv (which I now acknowledge was wrong) was clarifying what Theofan's name is in Ukrainian. That should definitely stay. One of the primary sources of the article, Ukrainian Encyclopedia online, directly calls him a Ukrainian statesman. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 18:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- OK, I have restored it and additionally added the Ukrainian romanization. Mellk (talk) 18:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, that looks better. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 19:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- OK, I have restored it and additionally added the Ukrainian romanization. Mellk (talk) 18:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- The only other changes besides Kiev -> Kyiv (which I now acknowledge was wrong) was clarifying what Theofan's name is in Ukrainian. That should definitely stay. One of the primary sources of the article, Ukrainian Encyclopedia online, directly calls him a Ukrainian statesman. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 18:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Russian SFSR
I have a concern over Vasily Utkin.
You see, all Russian biographical articles have an infobox using Russian SFSR, examples including Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, and Tsar Nicholas II.
As per Talk:Vladimir Putin/Archive 17#Geo links in infobox that engaging edit war over "Russian SFSR" by omitting as irrelevant option. By the time, it violates Wikipedia:General sanctions/Russo-Ukrainian War. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 10:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- The problem here is that Moscow Oblast in the context of the Soviet Union is the second-level administration division. It does not really make sense to include the second-level administration but not the first-level one (Russian SFSR). Today, it is a first-level administrative division, but not then. Either both or neither should be included. Mellk (talk) 10:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Do you mean, for example Yevgeny Prigozhin was born in Leningrad, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union is in the infobox, is this comprehensible? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oblasts isn't included, only Soviet republics included until 1991 for infoboxes. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- At the time, Leningrad was a city of republican subordination, not part of Leningrad Oblast. A better example would be Sverdlovsk. It is best to say "Sverdlovsk, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union", or perhaps "Sverdlovsk, Soviet Union". But I think the first option is usually preferable, the second one where the republic is omitted might only work for capitals of republics or just Moscow. Mellk (talk) 11:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- See also Template: Infobox person where it says for birth_place parameter:
For union republics, subordinate country can be shown
. Mellk (talk) 11:48, 1 August 2024 (UTC)- You're right, also can applies to union republics of SFR Yugoslavia as well? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Since Yugoslavia was a federated state, I do not see why not. Mellk (talk) 11:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- You're right, also can applies to union republics of SFR Yugoslavia as well? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
@Mellk and Firefangledfeathers: As a remedy for Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe, Mike Novikoff repeatedly omitting "Russian SFSR" to infobox on Vasily Utkin for not following Template:Infobox person/doc. Should we proceed to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement, after receiving this, and this discussion on Putin's infobox.
And by the way, should we designate this article as contentious topic? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 22:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
Also for David Burliuk in 2022, for removing "Ukraine" from infobox it specifically violates the WP:GS/RUSUKR:
49.150.12.163 (talk) 23:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- OMG, it looks like WP:DUCK. Perhaps my old "friend" SwissArmyGuy is here again. With his poor English and total misunderstanding of what Arbitration Committee is, among other things. — Mike Novikoff 01:15, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Mike Novikoff: For the last time, after making four WP:ANI discussions (1, 2, 3, 4) for a long content dispute that you edit as a contentious topic via Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Balkans or Eastern Europe. @Firefangledfeathers: should we proceed to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 01:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- The duck quacks louder and louder, yet it even starts trying to hide. — Mike Novikoff 01:56, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Mike Novikoff: since union republics of the Soviet Union are most important for biographical articles, for example, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was born in "Kryvyi Rih, Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union" is included the infobox, you can't omit it. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 02:02, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Not for people born in (or near) the largest Russian cities. Everybody knows what Moscow or Leningrad are, and everybody knows it's not Ukraine or Tajikistan. Infoboxes should be concise. On the other hand, specifying a small town such as Balashikha and omitting Moscow Oblast is wrong, because it forces the reader to follow the link for the town that they might not know. — Mike Novikoff 03:04, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- You mean Yevgeny Prigozhin, Alexei Navalny, are born in "Leningrad, Russian SFSR", also for Tsar Nicholas II died in "Yekaterinburg, Russian SFSR". 49.150.12.163 (talk) 03:57, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is best to start a more centralized discussion somewhere like Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Russia to get more opinions on the matter. Mellk (talk) 04:06, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- I see your point, but would still look a little odd to me to say something like "Moscow Uyezd, Russian Empire". I am not sure if the MOS is strict about this, though, but this is just my opinion. Mellk (talk) 04:07, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Why not? It's better than a small town alone. As for the MoS, I can't find a rule for this specific case, but we do have MOS:NOFORCELINK. And RSFSR is just too broad, it says almost nothing about the location. — Mike Novikoff 05:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- You mean Yevgeny Prigozhin, Alexei Navalny, are born in "Leningrad, Russian SFSR", also for Tsar Nicholas II died in "Yekaterinburg, Russian SFSR". 49.150.12.163 (talk) 03:57, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Not for people born in (or near) the largest Russian cities. Everybody knows what Moscow or Leningrad are, and everybody knows it's not Ukraine or Tajikistan. Infoboxes should be concise. On the other hand, specifying a small town such as Balashikha and omitting Moscow Oblast is wrong, because it forces the reader to follow the link for the town that they might not know. — Mike Novikoff 03:04, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Mike Novikoff: since union republics of the Soviet Union are most important for biographical articles, for example, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was born in "Kryvyi Rih, Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union" is included the infobox, you can't omit it. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 02:02, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- The duck quacks louder and louder, yet it even starts trying to hide. — Mike Novikoff 01:56, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Mike Novikoff: For the last time, after making four WP:ANI discussions (1, 2, 3, 4) for a long content dispute that you edit as a contentious topic via Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Balkans or Eastern Europe. @Firefangledfeathers: should we proceed to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 01:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)