User talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound

---

Endometriosis_Foundation_of_America is live 22:04, 4 September 2020.

EndoFound redirects to Endometriosis_Foundation_of_America

EFA disambiguation includes Endometriosis_Foundation_of_America

---

Memdmarti/endofound/Archive 1 is at Talk:Memdmarti/endofound/Archive 1.

---

To do when going live

 Done

SandyGeorgia note is at User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#Further_reading

Add COI to EndoFound Talk: "User:Memdmarti (Dan Martin, Memphis) is an honoree and supporter of EndoFound. The article was reviewed in sandbox by User:SandyGeorgia and admin User:Jimfbleak for any COI or past deletion concerns, and they approved the article."

1.  Done

In the edit which creates the article, use the following edit summary: "Start article with some content taken from Tamer Seckin, version at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamer_Seckin&oldid=896214135".

 Done

After you edit-copy, edit-paste the article to Endometriosis Foundation of America (with the edit summary indicated above), you will still need to:

1. Uncomment the short description and categories

    Done

2. Add WikiProject and COI declaration to talk page

    Done

3. Create a redirect at EndoFound (Redirect#How_to_make_a_redirect) -> #REDIRECT [[Endometriosis Foundation of America]]

    Done

4. Add it to the dab page at EFA under Other.

    Done

After you start the article, the WikiProject tags are added to the talk page. In this case, you will be adding to the talk page:

1. {{WikiProject Medicine|class=start|importance=low }}

   {{WikiProject Organizations|class=start|importance=low}}

    Done

Then

1. Check Redtab @ Padma Lakshmi

    Done

2. Add Wikilink to EFA at Tamer Seckin

   I have COI, ask SandyGeorgia

3. Check WP for EndoFound and Endometriosis Foundation of America

    Done

Memdmarti (talk) 00:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Questions for SandyGeorgia

 Done

On-topic & other concerns

 Done

I hope you are had great break; glad to have you back.

I understand why Tamer Seckin’s use of EFA lists was off-topic Diff.

Are the following lists off-topic or something similar? These are in the draft of the EFA page section. The first, third and fourth lists are manageable.

1. The Endometriosis Foundation of America's yearly Blossom Ball includes women who have suffered from endometriosis such as Susan Sarandon, Padma Lakshmi, Whoopi Goldberg, ...
2. Others who have supported the Endometriosis Foundation of America include Deborah Harry, Tyra Banks, Eileen Guggenheim, …
   1. The other supporters list looks unmanageable to me. It looks like the type list you would see in an annual donor's report with different levels of donors. The one from Emory University looks like thousands of donors.
   2. It could be limited to celebrities or those with Wikidepia pages. The ones not on the list may question why.
3. Honorees of the Blossom Ball include Fran Drescher, Alaia Baldwin, Molly Qerim Rose, …
4. The Harry Reich Award has been presented to Linda Giudice, Liselotte Mettler, Serdar Bulun, …

Does the lede need non-organizational citations?

Memdmarti (talk) 18:44, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

See User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#Review

Your sandbox page should be content, with your questions on talk. If you can move all of your questions to here, I will respond to each. Other editors should not edit your sandbox directly, but I can edit talk! Then, when the sandbox is ready to go, since you are the only editor of it, you can edit copy edit paste it to main space, without having to worry about attribution, because it's all your work. So clean it up to article content only, and we'll address the questions here on talk. Do everything BUT categories, since you shouldn't categorize things in user space ... those are added on once you move it to mainspace. What I usually do is comment out the categories in draft mode by using inline hidden comments. Any text surrounded by carat exclamation dash dash as follows is a hidden comment (leave off the nowiki) <!-- THIS IS A HIDDEN COMMENT --> SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:31, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I think I answered the rest of the questions at User talk:SandyGeorgia, so need to copy them here ... just clean out everything at your sandbox except what actually goes in the article, and then I'll advise you on making it ready for mainspace. Once we're done, you can edit copy-edit paste it to the actual article, uncommenting the categories. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:56, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! I will do that later today. Memdmarti (talk) 13:55, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done added TOC limit Memdmarti (talk) 15:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done moved two sections from User:.. to User talk:...Memdmarti (talk) 15:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I still see some of your signature, and non-article stuff in the sandbox page ... let me know when you've cleared out everything that isn't article per se, and when you've polished it to your satisfaction, and I'll review it to see if it's mainspage ready. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

See User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#Review Memdmarti (talk) 05:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Controls and Categories

 Done

 Done Q1: SandyGeorgia, does "authority control" need to be enabled (it is currently nowiki disable) while I am learning how to do a new page?

• Did the following create problems?
  • "Category:Medical associations based in the United States," "Category:Medical and health organizations based in New York City]]," and "Category:Obstetrics and gynaecology organizations" were enabled and disabled Diff
  • WP:authority control "authority control" was enabled and disabled Diff.

 Done Q2: Can I use "User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound" page instead of "User talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound" page for questions to you when I am in Sandbox? Does "WP:BLANKING you can do what you want. (;  Darth Flappy «Talk» 19:10, 25 June 2020 (UTC)" apply? If not, can I move this page to "User talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound?"

 Done Moved from User to User Talk Memdmarti (talk) 14:54, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Memdmarti (talk) 18:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Note to SandyGeorgia & Wikipedia - Source of Material

 Done

The refs and some material at User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound were harvested from Tamer Seckin's page. Tamer is the president and founder of EndoFound (Endometriosis Foundation of America), the subject of the User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound page that is in progress.

• Tamer Seckin Diff Category:Medical associations based in the United States, Category:Medical and health organizations based in New York City, Category:Obstetrics and gynaecology organizations 22 Aug 2020
• Tamer Seckin Diff 19 Feb 2020
• Tamer Seckin Diff 11 March 2017

The template was harvested from ASRM

COI User:Memdmarti:

• Endometriosis Concepts at User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#External_links is part of my site.
• Memdmarti is a supporter of EndoFound
• Memdmarti (Memphis - Dan Martin) is an EndoFound Harry Reich honoree.

Moved here from User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound at 14:54, 25 August 2020

Memdmarti (talk) 19:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Change Notes

 Done

Sections were moved to

• User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#Controls_and_Categories
• User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#Note_to_SandyGeorgia_&_Wikipedia_-_Source_of_Material
• Queries for EndoFound moved to MS Word for offline work

Tracking note: "nowiki" for Catogories was removed at 3 Diffs

• Diff
• Diff
• Diff

Memdmarti (talk) 02:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

References

Memdmarti (talk) 20:38, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Review

Memdmarti, the page is a bit of a jumble, so I will just start over here with suggestions.

• Some elements at User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound would not be in an article; you could remove them now, so the article would be ready to copy-paste to Endometriosis Foundation of America

  ENDOMETRIOSIS FOUNDATION OF AMERICA in all caps at the top would not be in the article

  Your signature is throughout the article

  Your website is listed in External links; it would not meet WP:EL for this article. See WP:ELNO and WP:ABOUTSELF-- the only place your website would be used on Wikipedia would be an article about you.

  Your "Notes to delete later" are confusing ... all you have to do is add the categories at the end of the article, but in a hidden comment, and then just uncomment them after you move the content to the real article. You comment out text like this:

  • <!-- This is a comment -->

• The rest of your notes there would be more effective here on talk; that is, separate article space from talk space.

• Are you working on getting the logo? I don't do images, so I don't know how you are going about getting the image uploaded. You could just delete all of that from the sandbox for now, and the image can be added at any time.
• Huffington Post contributors are rarely considered reliable sources: see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, consider deleting anything sourced to them as it raises red flags. Ditto for Medium.com. Anything reported by ONLY those kinds of dubious sources is unlikely to be encylopedic content. Which brings up the next series of points-- three paragraphs I would completely delete:
  • "EndoFound's yearly Blossom Ball includes ... " unencyclopedic. WP:NOT ... not for fundraising, not for name dropping, and not a press release. Glamour, looktothestars, and press releases. That's fine for their website, but not encyclopedic content or high quality sourcing.
  • "Others who have supported" ... ditto to all above, and sourced to press releases as well.
  • "Honorees of the Blossom Ball include " ... ditto ... poor sourcing or press releases.
• "Furthermore", "in addition", things like that ... don't prevent it from being ready for mainspace, but I will slash all such similar on copyedit :) :) For example, to read less like a press release and more link an encyclopedia:
  • The Foundation promotes advocacy, education, and awareness of endometriosis, surgical training, and research. It sponsors annual conferences and a public awareness program to educate school nurses, students, and teachers about endometriosis in New York City schools.
• Who is Harry Reich and why is an award named after him?
• Publications are all listed on their website: WP:NOT a webhost, I would not include them here. Ditto for Videos.
• See also: Endometriosis is already linked in the article, not needed. The other two See also links can be accessed from there.

So, if you can get this down to just an encyclopedic page (Meaning, delete three paras that are about fundraising, delete See also, Publications and Videos), get your sig and off-topic content out, then let me know when done, and you can move it to Userspace with a note on Talk:Endometriosis Foundation of America about your COI, but indicating that SandyGeorgia reviewed it for COI, I will endorse that, and New Page Patrollers should leave it alone in spite of COI. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:31, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! I will work on this tomorrow. 05:31, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

User:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound ready to be reviewed by SandyGeorgia.Memdmarti (talk) 16:05, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Almost time to clean up the cabin, pack up, and start the long drive home. I will attempt review from iPad and hotspot from the car, but be prepared for typos :) Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:08, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

 DoneMemdmarti (talk) 02:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Questions - COI / Agent Systems Reference Model

 Done Thank you, SandyGeorgia!

1. Is this reasonable for COI at Talk:Endometriosis Foundation of America
   1. Reviewed by User:SandyGeorgia (add brackets) for COI.
   2. Memdmarti is a supporter of EndoFound
   3. Memdmarti (Memphis - Dan Martin) is an EndoFound Harry Reich honoree.
2. Do I address “For the reference model of the same acronym, see Agent Systems Reference Model?”
3. What is siri in (→‎Section headings: siri) at Diff? Memdmarti (talk) 16:14, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

References

I'll get to this once I'm on the road ... Siri is the idiot I talk to in my iPad who can't sort out that I sometimes speak Spanish, and sometimes English, so I end up with gobs of typos :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:22, 1 September 20 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia!Memdmarti (talk) 16:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Dan, I'm on the road, with a spotty connection, so bear with me. I'll probably make piecemeal posts so I don't lose them. I'm unsure why you asking about the acronym hatnote. This article (EndoFound) makes no mention of and is unrelated to (??) the ASRM, so that hatnote is not needed here. It is dealt with correctly now at both American Society for Reproductive Medicine and the other acronym article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:07, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Next piece, more to come. For the COI notice at Talk:Endometriosis Foundation of America, I would make it much much simpler. Also, a full citation and excess detail is not needed there; it's a talk page. I suggest, under the heading of COI declaration:

• User:Memdmarti (Dan Martin, Memphis) is an honoree and supporter of EndoFound. The article was reviewed in sandbox by User:SandyGeorgia for any COI concerns, and she approved the article.

And then I will sign under that to endorse/acknowledge. You only need enough text there that New Page Patrollers will not object, and the article won't be tagged COI in the future by some overanxious newbie. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Moved to To Do above  Done Memdmarti (talk) 02:31, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Review: next pass

• Link to 501(c)(3) organization, which is a non-profit by definition, so the wording "non-profit" is redundant. Alternately, since you again mention both in the infobox, put non-profit in the article lead, with the link to 501(c)(3) in the infobox ... Done
• Remove hatnote; not relevant here.
  • See query below Memdmarti (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• You have linked to external sites in the infobox where you should instead be using that external link as a cite for the content that it was founded by Seckin and Lakshmi. We only link to external sites in references, further reading, external links, and to include a link to the organizations's website in the infobox-- here you intend that link to be a citation. Done
• I would suggest a more apt short description is US medical advocacy organization, but I don't pay much attention to short description. Done
• EndoFound was founded ... sounds weird. Since this is an opening paragraph, it is OK here to ditch the abbreviation and spell out The Endometriosis Foundation of America was founded ... Done
• Dr Harry Reich ... avoid Honorifics, we've covered that elsewhere. Was he an ob/gyn? Then say that ... say what he was, not the honorific Dr., which could be a PHD  Done
• comment out the short description for now ... see the bottom of the page where it is triggering an error message, meaning someone will come along shortly and remove it ... it can't be in userspace, only belongs in mainspace.
  • See query below Memdmarti (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• Laparoscopic surgery needs linking ... you don't want a new page patroller sticking a maintenance tag on the article. Done
• Most important! I have glanced back at Tamer Seckin, and I think you have done enough original writing here that you don't have to attribute the content back to that article (it's no longer a copy of what was at his article), but for an abundance of caution, do the following. See WP:CWW-- copying within Wikipedia. In the edit which creates the article, use the following edit summary: "Start article with some content taken from Tamer Seckin, version at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamer_Seckin&oldid=896214135". You must include those links in the edit summary to give attribution to any wording you may have copied,
  • Moved to "To Do before going live" Memdmarti (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC) **  Done

The following is moved to "To Do before going live" SandyGeorgia, see questions below. Memdmarti (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• After you edit-copy, edit-paste the article to Endometriosis Foundation of America (with the edit summary indicated above), you will still need to:

1. Uncomment the short description and categories
2. Add WikiProject and COI declaration to talk page
3. Create a redirect at EndoFound
4. Add it to the dab page at EFA
5. The article is already red-linked at Tamer Seckin, and I've dealt with it here, so that when it goes live, it will not be tagged as Orphaned by new page patrollers.
   1. Thank you SandyGeorge!

Dan, I think that's everything. This may have seemed like a long exercise for you, but in creating an article from scratch, one can learn best. You now will have an article that should sail through New Page Patrol without tags or issues, you will have learned a number of new Wikipedia tricks of the trade, and you now have under your belt a fine start to an article that is neither full of puffery, nor promotional nor overly cited to press releases and marginal sources. That makes you a Wikipedian ! You're ready to go after you do the list above. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:05, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you SandyGeorge! I will work on that tonight but it may take a day or two as I have Zooms and doctor's appointments (chronic nuisance problems) for the next two days. Memdmarti (talk) 01:19, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Remember there still a few pieces in the section above this one, bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:25, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! I will do those also. Memdmarti (talk) 01:33, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

9/2/2020

1. It is hard not to use "Dr" after a lifetime of using it, except when coaching basketball for 20 years. Then it was coach or ocassionally doc.
2. Those in User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#Questions_-_COI_/_Agent_Systems_Reference_Model are done
3. What is a hatnote and how do I remove it?
   1. See below
4. What is "comment out the short description for now"?
   1. See below
5. Please clarify "Uncomment the short description and categories"
   1. See below
6. What is a WikiProject declaration?
7. Does redirect at EndoFound use "#REDIRECT target page name here"?
8. WP:dab Do I add a section above Military at EFA?
9. Thank you, SandyGeorgia! Memdmarti (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

9/2/2020.2

1. Are these the hatnote and short description? sb = "{" or "}"
   1. sbsb: for|the reference model of the same acronym|Agent Systems Reference Model :sbsb
   2. sbsb: short description|US medical advocacy organization :sbsb
2. I took out the <!-- Add "Category:Medical associations based in the United States," "Category:Medical and health organizations based in New York City," and "Category:Obstetrics and gynaecology organizations"--> Is that correct?
3. What are comment out and uncomment? Memdmarti (talk) 04:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Responses

1. On the "hatnote", see WP:HATNOTE-- sorry I slipped into WikiLingo again :) You may have missed this post above: I'm unsure why you asking about the acronym hatnote. This article (EndoFound) makes no mention of and is unrelated to (??) the ASRM, so that hatnote is not needed here. It is dealt with correctly now at both American Society for Reproductive Medicine and the other acronym article. That is, the first line in your sandbox is to a hatnote about the ASRM, which does not belong here-- has nothing to do with this article. Remove: "For the reference model of the same acronym, see Agent Systems Reference Model."

   ASRM = American Society for Reproductive Medicine and Agent Systems Reference Model.  Done Memdmarti (talk) 20:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

2. You have added a short description to your sandbox: "US medical advocacy organization". Short descriptions (like categories) are only used in article space. If you add them in user space, they trigger an error, which you can see at the bottom of your sandbox: "Hidden categories: User pages with short description." That means your sandbox is listed in an error category that someone has to address ... eventually someone will come along and delete the short description.
   When you are building an article in user space, you can add these elements anyway (short description, categories, etc, that only belong in mainspace) to your draft, but comment them out-- make them hidden -- so that you can just uncomment them when you move it over. That way, your work is complete and ready to go, but won't trigger error categories.
   The way you comment something out is to enclose the text like this (ignore the nowiki tags, which make it display here): <!-- {{short description|US medical advocacy organization}} --> Anything you put inside the bracket exclamation two hyphens and the two hyphens bracket is commented out of the article, hidden. Then when you move it to mainspace, you can just uncomment it. You can do the same with categories. You could have left the categories here, and just commented them out so that the article is ready to go.
   Many editors use this technique when copyediting-- they put questions, queries, problems directly in to the article via hidden comments, so when the main editor goes through and addresses problems, they just remove the hidden comment.

    Done Memdmarti (talk) 20:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

3. After you start the article, the WikiProject tags are added to the talk page. In this case, you will be adding to the talk page:

   {{WikiProject Medicine|class=start|importance=low }} and

   {{WikiProject Organizations|class=start|importance=low}}

   Moved to To Do above Memdmarti (talk) 20:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

4. To create the ENDOFOUND redirect (that is, you want people who type ENDOFOUND in to the search engine to be redirected to this article. Yes, you create the page Endofound as a redirect with #REDIRECT [[Endometriosis Foundation of America]]

   Moved to To Do above Memdmarti (talk) 20:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

5. At the EFA dab page, I would just add it to the list under "Other" alphabetically.

   Moved to To Do above Memdmarti (talk) 20:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Dan, I hope you realize that all of the stuff I am teaching you is way beyond what we normally expect from a newbie. Normally, you would put the article in and someone would have to come along and correct all of this. But I am viewing this as a learning exercise for both of us-- teaching you the ropes, at the same time I am learning how hard it is for newbies to follow Wikipedia procedures and lingo. Basically, you are ready to go here. Once you have started the article, I am going to add back some of the puffy sources I had you delete as further reading. They were not high quality sources, but I don't object to listing them for reader interest in Further reading. I am on all day now in case you have further questions. IF all of this is too much, you could basically put the article up now and I will be here to make any corrections. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:08, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Oopsie, please go ahead with all of those corrections, but see note below-- wait to move to userspace. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! I know to wait on Jimfbleak.Memdmarti (talk) 20:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

New Question 9/3/2020

Is WikiProject declaration covered at User_talk:Memdmarti/sandbox/endofound#To_do_when_going_live? Memdmarti (talk) 20:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Yep, but don't sweat this remaining stuff ... I'll be right behind you to fix anything needed. You are ready to go now, once Jimfbleak weighs in. He is a fairly regular editor, but I see he stopped editing today just before I pinged him. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:53, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! Dan Memdmarti (talk) 21:11, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

By the way, just to bring you up to speed on another feature of Wikipedia ... the reason we are waiting for Jimfbleak is that this article has been repeatedly created and re-created. In those cases, we see "delete and salt" engaged, where IF someone were to say the article did not meet Notability, THEN a decision could be made to "Delete and salt", which means, protect the page so it can't be re-created again without admin tools. Best to play it safe when there have been many past mistakes. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:22, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! Memdmarti (talk) 21:32, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Hit a snag

Fiddlesticks. I just realized this article has been deleted three times before (because someone put up crap, which is exactly what we are trying to avoid). Because I am not an admin, I cannot see what the previous versions were. We should get Jimfbleak to look in here before you recreate the article from sandbox, as he was one of the former deleting admins. Jimfbleak, I have helped Memdmarti (who has a COI on this article) create Endometriosis Foundation of America in sandbox; he is a relative newbie to WP:MED, an ob/gyn, learning the ropes, so I took this opportunity to teach him how to create an article from scratch. Could you have a look before he re-creates it? Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

PS, Jimfbleak, there are still a series of corrections to be made before this goes live, see section just above this ... I don't want you to correct anything, as this is a training/learning exercise :) Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, thanks. The most obvious shortcoming of the sandboxed version is that it's basically "this is what we do" and not much else. The foundation appears to have no staff or internal organisaton, no income and no expenditure (although we are told some of the things that it presumably spends money on). It's also not clear either whether this is a membership organisation or not. As it stands, it could be three people in a shed, so definitely needs some real facts. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:34, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Incidentally, the deleted versions were, as you suspected, well-intentioned but highly promotional crap. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:37, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Jimfbleak ... some of that shortcoming may be because I told Memdmarti to delete a lot of info per NOT and to get down to bare bones so as to not appear promotional. For example, an older version is here, and Memdmarti has listed more in the section below. Would some of that help? I also had him delete mentions from Glamour magazine and Huffington Post ... perhaps I was too strict. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:20, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, looking at the list below, 1-3 I think are essential, and 4-6 I think are OK. No names for personnel unless they have an existing article here already. Mention that it has publications and videos, but don't list and certainly no ELs. 9 looks Ok, but the rest I'm less convinced by. Lists aren't normally a good idea, and these are largely self-sourced too. You know this topic and WP:MEDbetter than I, so happy to defer to your judgement if you take a different view.

Got it, thanks for the feedback, Jimfbleak. Are you OK then if, after I guide Memdmarti through your comment above, we go ahead and re-create the article? And then also mention your review on talk once launched? Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, the page isn't protected, despite the multiple deletions, so go ahead as you suggest. I'd guess that it meets our notability criteria, and I'd hope that the involvement of two experienced editors might help it survive, cheers Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:08, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Jimfbleak ... so Memdmarti, what Jimfbleak is referencing is that the page isn't "salted" as I explained above, but our goal is to make sure it doesn't get "salted" :) There are newbie editors who get kicks out of sending articles to AFD, and we want to make sure you put up an article that will pass New Page Patrol without being subjected to AFD, and possibly ending up "salted".

So, go ahead with the list above, let me know when you're done, and I'll advise. I agree with Jim's list, and appreciate Jimfbleak's help! Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia and Jimfbleak! Dan Memdmarti (talk) 14:27, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Consider

Thank you, Jimfbleak!

Which of the following are useful?

The first six are linked from About Us.

Numbers 7 to 12 were previouly considered and deleted.

For the web page citations, should I harvest the date from the page source code if it is apparent?

1. EndoFound’s fourteen-member Board of Directors includes patients, scientists, and physicians.
2. It has a staff of eight, and
3. reported $1,359,233 revenues and $759,941 expenses in 2018.
4. Annual events include the Patient Day,
5. Medical Conference, and
6. Blossom Ball.
7. Publications

   The Blossom Letter

   The Blossom Blog

   Endometriosis Stories

   Endofound's Bookshelf

8. Videos

   Patient Day 2019

   Medical Conference 2019

   Blossom Ball 2019

   Video Gallery

9. (I like this one. / memdmarti)EndoFound's holds a yearly Blossom Ball which includes women who have suffered from endometriosis such as Susan Sarandon, Padma Lakshmi, Whoopi Goldberg, Halsey, Lena Dunham, and Kirsten DeHaan.
10. (This section looks like a yearly donor report and is not needed / memdmarti) Others who have supported EndoFound include Deborah Harry, Tyra Banks, Eileen Guggenheim, Sanjay Gupta, Aasif Mandvi, Boomer Esiason, Henrik Lundqvist, Jill Flint, Katrina Bowden, Lauren Miller Rogen, Mark Teixeira, Michael Bloomberg, Russell Simmons, Judy Joo, and Madeleine Rudin.(Others ____?).
11. (This section may be a list of 20 to 30 and looks adequately covered in the current version/ memdmarti) Honorees of the Blossom Ball include (1st-9th Blossom Ball Honorees _____?), Fran Drescher, Alaia Baldwin, Molly Qerim Rose, Michael J. Dowling, and Lisa Sanders.
12. (This section may be a list of 15 to 20 and looks adequately covered in the current version / memdmarti) The first annual Harry Reich Awards to physicians and scientists, presented at the Blossom Ball, was to Linda Giudice and Liselotte Mettler. The Harry Reich Award has also been presented to Serdar Bulun, Dan Martin, Ronald Batt, Robert N. Taylor, and Farr Nezhat, co-founder of the Worldwide Endometriosis March.(Other Harry Reich Awardees ____?).

Memdmarti (talk) 12:47, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

References

Query

Dan, what do you mean by For the web page citations, should I harvest the date from the page source code if it is apparent? Could you rephrase, as I am not understanding the question. Or give me an example of which web page you mean? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:55, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Me neither! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:04, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Example using web page https://www.endofound.org/about-us

A "| date =" for {{cite web | title = About Us | url = https://www.endofound.org/about-us | website = endofound.org | date = | access-date = 4 September 2020}}</ref> is not on the web page. But the page’s source code (right click / select View page source / (Find / date)) has style sheet and resource dates 2018-10-23, 2019-07-17, and 2020-06-09. The 2020-06-09 is the most recent and could be used in "| date =" with the concern that it was maintainence and not an update.

Since it might be maintainence, my question does not appear to apply to that page. Memdmarti (talk) 13:19, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

--------

Example that works https://www.danmartinmd.com/ although it is also on the displayed page.

"Find / date" has two hits. The second is "Updated August 31, 2020" / Memdmarti (talk) 13:56, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Don't worry about it :) Unless there is a date on the page, it's not essential to have one in the citation. For citation purposes, the accessdate is what matters most on websites. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! Dan. Memdmarti (talk) 14:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

The only other thing is to be consistent with date (and other) formatting) even if that means changing fromm the source docs Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:10, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Jimfbleak, Dan. Memdmarti (talk) 14:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Friday

Thank you, SandyGeorgia!

1. I added #1-3 to lede. # 9 (list of celebrities with endometriosis) and shortened mention of publications (#7) and videos (#8) were added in the History and activities section.

   "It has a staff of eight" should say "as of 2020", as that kind of info can change. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

    Done

   Publications[16] and videos[17] from the patient days and medical conferences are online ... it is not clear what is meant by "patient days". So, yes, go ahead and add Items 4 through 6, but all in one sentence, rather than a list. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

    Done

2. Should #9 , the list of celebrities with endometriosis be deleted?

   Should Kirsten DeHaan, who has no Wikipage, be deleted? I would not know who she is without Google.

   The list of celebrities is ok (per Jimfbleak), but we only include those who meet Wikipedia notability (that is, have an article or could have a WP:RED article), so yes, better to delete Kirsten DeHaan. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

    Done# #4-6 are held at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Memdmarti/sandbox#Test_Section

   See #1 above.

3. #10-12 were not used
4. COI for EndoFound Talk changed to: "User:Memdmarti (Dan Martin, Memphis) is an honoree and supporter of EndoFound. The article was reviewed in sandbox by User:SandyGeorgia and User:Jimfbleak for any COI concerns, and they approved the article."

I will be back in about three hours Memdmarti (talk) 15:32, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Looking good, see my Further reading to be added, which should bring it over the notability hump. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia!

I added URLs, active links, for four of the Further reading and removed the |via= ProQuest. Is that reasonable?

Are Caps OK in “Annual events include the Patient Day,[9] Medical Conference,[10] and Blossom Ball.[11]” I reworded that and removed the caps. Memdmarti (talk) 18:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Further reading

Dan, you can add a Further reading section (that goes after References but before External links). I found all of these via my library database. They all discuss EndoFound. They will help assure notability is met. Just copy the text below into a new section, Further reading. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

• "Lunch with Lakshmi includes straight talk". The Washington Post. March 4, 2016. p. C2 – via ProQuest.
• Doheny, Kathleen (April 13, 2016). "Endometriosis linked to heart disease in study: Researchers urge talks with doctor, lifestyle changes". Chicago Tribune. p. 2 – via ProQuest.
• Fisher, Benjamin (March 6, 2020). "Finkenauer shares personal struggle with endometriosis". Telegraph - Herald. Dubuque, Iowa. p. A3 – via ProQuest.
• Johnson, Carolyn Y. (December 4, 2009). "Scientist takes aim at her longtime silent scourge". Boston Globe. p. A1 – via ProQuest.
• McDermott, Maeve (February 14, 2018). "Lena Dunham undergoes total hysterectomy following endometriosis battle". USA Today. Retrieved September 4, 2020.
• Press, Simone (December 7, 2009). "Padma dishes on show, her pregnancy cravings". Boston Herald. p. 14 – via ProQuest.
• Zorker, Jessi (May 16, 2020). "Invisible no more: Artist paints her endometriosis journey to raise awareness of misunderstood disease". Arizona Republic. Phoenix, Ariz. p. Z72 – via ProQuest.

-------

I added URLs, active links, for four of them and removed the |via= ProQuest. Is that reasonable?

I am still working above Memdmarti (talk) 18:14, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Moved URL question up one section Memdmarti (talk) 18:44, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

If you found URLs, yes, remove via=ProQuest and remember to add an accessdate. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:19, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Dan, it looks ready to go except that, per WP:MEDMOS we prefer to avoid the victimizing terminology "suffer from" and just say "had". I think you can launch any time now. I'll be watching, although I'm in and out, gardening. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:21, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

"suffer from" -> "had"

In addition to Jimfbleak, there are two others who deleted this page: Toddst1 and RHaworth. Do I need to notify them? Memdmarti (talk) 21:50, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Nope, you've done due diligence. Remember the edit summary I told you to use when edit copy-edit pasting over to mainspace? Just add on to that the words, "reviewed by admin Jimfbleak", and you should be good to go. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:54, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

You have a Wikilink to Endometriosis Foundation of America in the Endometriosis Foundation of America section for Tamer Seckin

Does Tamer Seckin need a Wikilink in the lede and Infobox?

Thank you, SandyGeorgia!!! Dan Memdmarti (talk) 22:26, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, he does ... I thought I had left that as WP:RED ... but you can link it now. And then you can see a new trick. If you go to the EndoFound article now, look in the boxes on the left-hand side of the screen, under Tools, you will find "What links here" ... by clicking on that, you can find everything linking to the page. I think you will also get notifications now for every new link. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

I may have misunderstood your question ... link on first occurrence, which is the lead, and remove the later link at Tamer Seckin. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:30, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

No removals, just additions. Can I link all three locations on the Tamer Seckin page? Am I concerned about COI for Wikilinks? Dan Memdmarti (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Only link on first occurrence ... and no problem on COI with linking ... don't go paranoid on us ! I'll go find the page that explains wikilinking momentarily, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Here ya go, MOS:LINK, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:53, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! I do not know if it is MOS:LINK or me that/who needs an English syntax instructor, a math lesson, or a lawyer. From MOS:LINK: "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, hatnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead." That can be summarized as "only once in an article, but ... repeated in infoboxes... and at the first occurrence after the lead." That sounds like the lede and repeated in the infobox and the first occurrence after the lead for a total of three. What does it mean to you? I will apply what you say. Dan Memdmarti (talk)

Welcome to Wikipedia's Manual of Style-- where anyone on the Internet with an opinion can register it, and ... the Manual of style is a guideline which is not a policy, hence ... numerous extremely acrimonious editwars revolve around MOS because everyone has their own interpretation !! This stuff matters at the WP:FAC level, but for this start-class article, it means that one link in the lead will suffice, because Tamer Seckin is a very short article, and the reader will not have forgotten what the term means by the time they hit it the second time. If you look at a long, technical article like dementia with Lewy bodies, you can see why we *may* need to link a second time on occasion, but even some sticklers will call that out at WP:FAC. In this case, one link in the lead will do the job. (PS, I know Jimfbleak from FAC, as he is the numero uno bird man :) Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

The Wikilink is in the Foundation of America section, not the lead. Should I move it to the lead? Memdmarti (talk) 23:21, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, link the first occurrence, which is the lead, and unlink the later occurrence. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:55, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia!  Done Memdmarti (talk) 00:01, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Unwatching this page now, Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:06, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, SandyGeorgia! Will leave here as archive. Memdmarti (talk) 00:12, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Memdmarti (talk) 02:15, 6 September 2020 (UTC)