Kacir

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Ivo Minář

Hi Misbeliever, I undid your recent edit of the article Ivo Minář because the text of the article doesn't state that he had used drugs. Addition of categories must stem from the facts in the article. With regards --Iohannes Animosus (talk) 12:06, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for message, I see it. --Misbeliever (talk) 12:26, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Petra images

I think the images you added are great, but several of them have been tagged with regard to the watermarks. Is it possible you can upload versions without those, or with them cropped out? -- James26 (talk) 05:01, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi, author Mr. Lebeda sent me images with watermark. I don't know how to remove it. Colleague JuandeV marked them with template Watermark to anyone remove it. I try ask somebody on Commons for help in that issue.--Misbeliever (talk) 12:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Whisperback

Hello. You have a new message at Prayerfortheworld's talk page. Message added 01:38, 12 July 2013 (UTC).

New Haven international?

Do you have a source for [1]? I see some other Wikipedia pages also say international but WTA says Premier in both [2] and [3]. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for checking. Yesterday, I updated tennis info on Czech Wiki, in Tournament article and template International New Haven belonged to International cat., moreover tournam. profile on WTA site had been broken (today is working). I didn't control it in PDF page. So, thank you once more.--Misbeliever (talk) 14:41, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'm not 100% sure myself. Long ago I read somewhere that the future status was uncertain but the WTA pdf is recent so I guess it stayed a Premier. Maybe it was all the time back when it changed to the Yale name. I searched for new information before contacting you and didn't find anything. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, key issue is that we have (most) reliable sources for Premier cat. (source WTA Tour).--Misbeliever (talk) 18:27, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Very clear. 2014 Connecticut Open is a WTA Premier level tournament (see {{2014 WTA Tour}}).--333-blue 14:22, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Note that we resolved last year.--Misbeliever 17:37, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Elite Trophy International?

Do you have evidence that WTA considers WTA Elite Trophy to be an International? It gets the time slot of the Tournament of Champions but that doesn't say anything about the category. Internationals are below Premier but the Elite Trophy gives around three times the prize money of regular Premiers. Tournament of Champions was green like Internationals in http://www.wtatennis.com/SEWTATour-Archive/Archive/AboutTheTour/TourCalendar_2014.pdf but Elite Trophy is purple like Premiers in http://www.wtatennis.com/SEWTATour-Archive/Archive/AboutTheTour/TourCalendar_2015.pdf (with the purple shade indicating a level between regular Premiers and Premier 5). And Elite Trophy covers both columns like other mandatory Premiers while the Tournament of Champions was only in the International column. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:47, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi, OMG – it seems you are right. I (logically) supposed that WTA Elite replaced Garanti Koza in the same level cat. International. Somebody updated that information already in WTA International tournaments. Now, there is a question, in what Category WTA Elite belongs to? In official profile is only info: Tier: Tour Championships, does it really mean that tournament is a part of Premier? From WTA International must be removed. Thank you.--Misbeliever 08:03, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I haven't seen a clear statement by WTA but the PDF calendar looks to me like Elite Trophy is Premier. WTA Finals and WTA Elite Trophy are generally worded the same way when WTA discusses categories in the 2015 WTA rules [4] so I think we should either describe both or none as Premier. Maybe it should be none. WTA sometimes said "Premier WTA Championships" before the WTA Finals rename, but I haven't seen them say "Premier WTA Finals" or give another clear statement that the WTA Finals are Premier. Maybe they silently dropped it from the Premier category when they renamed the tournament. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

By the looking into the Rulebook 2015, In my view the categorizaion is evident. At page 123:
Tournament Categories:

• A. Grand Slam
• B. WTA Finals and WTA Elite Trophy
• C. WTA Tournaments
  • Premier Mandatory
  • Premier 5
  • Premier 700 (obviously new, I've never heard it before)
  • International
  • WTA 125K

So, WTA Finals and WTA Elite Trophy have own separated category, not involved in Premier (both are in Tier: Tour Championships).--Misbeliever 06:54, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

@03md: Hi, you are a member of the Tennis WikiProject. What's your opinion on categorization WTA Finals and WTA Elite Trophy?--Misbeliever 07:08, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Are you crazy? Or real, please give me sources on my talk page.--333-blue 14:24, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

What are you talking about?--Misbeliever 17:41, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click):: May I have a one more question: What do you think about categorization WTA Finals and WTA Elite Trophy? In my view WTA Finals is not a part of Premier Cat, no realible source for that claim, on the contrary WTA Rulebook 2015 says, that both events belonging to own category, it's corresponding 2015 WTA Premier tournaments.--Misbeliever 09:00, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I hadn't followed this back and forth, but have now read it fully. I was always under the impression that the "WTA Finals" and old "Tournament of Champions" were distinct categories... almost even from each other. I had never read that they were considered "Premier" events. In Tennis Project individual player performance timelines, we keep them separate from the premier events. What's funny is if I were to rank the "Tournament of Champions" (now the WTA Elite Trophy) in terms of importance, it would be below a Premier 5 event since it has no players ranked above No. 9 by definition. It's the NIT vs NCAA tournament of college basketball. You could post this at the Tennis Project talk page and see if others agree. I'm wondering what are the points that will given out for this new WTA Elite Trophy? The same, more or less than the old Tournament of Champions? How do those points compare to the premier events? Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:22, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I just looked up the points. Where before, the old Tournament of Champions gave out points less than the lowest Premier event, now the WTA Elite Trophy gives out a max of 700 points (if you go undefeated). That less than the Premier 5 events but more than the new Premier 12 events (that replace the old Premier events). So the points now fit the Premier profile even if the official category doesn't. This may be a sort of evolving thing with the WTA that we need to keep a watch on. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:04, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

OK, I use on Czech wiki the same table in statistics from english version (Kvitová: Závěrečné turnaje roku means Year-ending Tourn.). I added {{Citation needed}} on WTA Finals into the Premier and I'm going to remove this event from that cat.--Misbeliever 10:12, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Defunct National Indoors

You'll have to explain to me what the problem is with these two events. We have a defunct tournament per the ATP and new Tournament per the ATP. Both have articles here at wikipedia. Both have different winners in different years. The actual Memphis tournament webpage no longer shows the National Indoors winners in it's history so this seemed like an easy fix. What's the problem? Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Although you present it as a new different tournament, you added past finals from 1975. Please look at interwiki and into the articles. Tournament changed name and category a number of times in the past. We have similar cases e.g. 2015: Nottingham Open, Ecuador Open (tennis) (continuation of tournament in one article). Yes, for 100 years it was the U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships--Misbeliever 07:13, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Those past finals are part of the past Memphis Open tournament per their own website. But their own website no longer recognizes wins from The U.S. National Indoor Championships. Their own website even has different winners than the National Indoor tournament. This one is not like the other events you mentioned. It actually had two names from 1977-2014. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:17, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

According to source: Memphis will continue to operate as an ATP World Tour 500 event in 2013 and then as a 250 event from 2014 onwards, there is no information about ending "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships", so why to have last edition 2014 in this article? But the truth is, that in U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships we don't have 1975 a 1976 editions winners (from Memphis Open). French version concerns tourn. from 1975 as well. OK, I will revert myself, but in the article MO are no categories.--Misbeliever 08:07, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

The National Indoors has Jimmy Connors and Ilie Nastase winning in 1975 and 1976. The Memphis Open has Harold Solomon and Vijay Amritraj winning in 1975 and 1976. Look at the talk we were having at the Indoor talk page. Editors were getting confused with the fact the Memphis Open and U.S. National Indoor had different winners. With the fact the Memphis Open website no longer has all the U.S. National Indoor winners anymore, this seemed like a good time to split them up. Plus the ATP website also shows different winners for the two events. Yes there is overlap from 1977–2014, but this way all the facts are at everyones disposal. What I should have done though it put a link to Memphis Open (tennis) at the top of the U.S. National Indoor Championships article. That way editors could find the new article easily. My mistake with that. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

OK, Best regards--Misbeliever 08:40, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

One thing more. It's entirely possible that the press will occasionally call the new Memphis event the US National Indoor Championship. It's also possible that the tournament itself will revert and start slipping in that detail. We'll have to keep a watch and make decisions on the fly if that happens. I'd still think it best to keep the events separate because of conflicting 1975-1976 champions, but we may have to re-add the Memphis Champions to the US Indoor Champions list if we find out the ATP goes back to calling it by both names again. I'll try to keep my eyes open if that happens. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Just conflicting 1975-1976 champions are serious reason to have two separated articles.--Misbeliever 10:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

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Re-ordering Prague tournaments

Hi, i saw you on en.wiki talk pages, leaving comments about czech tournaments, players and so on with precision and good references. Since i started a reorganization of Prague tournaments there i thought to let you know in case you want to share your view and knowledge about it. As you can see we are trying to consolidate all its tournaments (long time overdue) over two main articles, divided by the venue used, one on Stvanice island and the other at TK Sparta Praha. I have some hardship identifying some tournaments' venue, and i thought if you could be of some helping here:

ATP

1) Czechoslovakia Championship ( Red Clay 1979)

2) Paegas Czech Open (Red Clay 1998, 1999: both still on Stvanice?)

ATP Challenger

1) Prague Challenger (Red Clay 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995).

2) Ciur Cup 1999 https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciur_Cup_1999

3) Podebradka Cup 2000 (it.wiki) (Red Clay)

4) Prague Challenger (en.wiki) (Red Clay, 2001 2002, 2003, 2004)

I have already identified "TK Nerida" as the venue for the Indoor Czech Open from 2001 to 2004.

Thanks for your contributions. Cheers. --95.250.109.34 (talk) 15:50, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

1) Czechoslovakia Championship ( Red Clay 1979) – it would be good to know at least the winner... maybe you think (?) standard "Czechoslovakia Championship" (mezinárodní mistrovství Československa /ČSSR/) played since 1919 as International Championship (open to foreign players). In 1973, an agreement was reached between Ostrava and Bratislava on an alternating change of venue, so 1973/75/77/79/81/83... it was played in Bratislava, and 1974/76/78/80/82... in Ostrava. Winner in 1979 was Ivan Lendl. (BTW, ATP was created in 1990, previously it was played as Grand Prix).

2) Paegas Czech Open (Red Clay 1998, 1999: both still on Stvanice?) – yes, editions 1998, 1999 played in Stvanice; All editions of Czechoslovak/Czech Open played there.

3) Prague Challenger (Red Clay 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995) – as I wrote in a Czech article, challenger played since 1991 on Stvanice, 2000 moved to TK Sparta Praha, and 2001 returned to Stvanice as ECM Cup. In 2014 and 2016 they were played simultaneously challengers in Stvanice and Sparta Prague.

4) Ciur Cup 1999 – I just found out that it was Praha /Prague/ 6 challenger, sources from 2000–2005 show venue in Průhonice, in 2000 it was last career tournament for Petr Korda ([5]); but the 1999 edition was played on clay and at another time.

5) Podebradka Cup 2000 (Red Clay) – there is confusing information:

it wiki Podebradka Cup winners: Montañés / Čermák & Fukárek (clay)

en wiki 2000 Challenger Series#December – Prague winners: Montañés / Čermák & Fukárek (clay), but when you open ATP archive#December: winners: Vacek / Pless & Qureshi --> the same winners in 2000 August, August tourn. will be that edition 2000 in Sparta Prague (see above moved from Stvanice; clay; BTW outdoor clay tournament in Prague in December seems like absolute nonsense, I have never seen play outside professional tennis in the Czech Republic during the winter).

6) Prague Challenger (Red Clay, 2001 2002, 2003, 2004) – as ECM Prague Open was played in Stvanice (clay), and winter challenger in Prague (e.g. November 2002) took place in Průhonice.

Cheers, Kacir 19:25, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your precise and detailed answers.

I am taking them into account of the general plan or re-shuffling the Prague tournaments and i have already modified consequentely many wrong infos of the previous editions on en.wiki.

I have, for now, two further questions: one is about the 2000 Challenger edition played on Sparta Praha venue. I saw also your article about it, but i didn't find any specific reference. Were did you get the info?

And the other is if WTA 1996 edition known as Pupp Czech Open (played in Karlovy Vary) can be still considered as a "Prague tournament". I mean did they switched venue but it's still the same tournament, or it's a singled out edition to cover for the missing (missing because in 1995 and 1997 there are Prague I. CLTK WTA tournaments) Prague tournament? Have you some reference about it?

Thanks again for your answers. Cheers.

ps: i was almost forgetting about it. But about the 2000 Challenger editions played on Red Clay in August.. and in December :) , the Podebradka Cup, after some digging i found out that Montanes was the winner on red clay in August https://www.itftennis.com/en/tournament/prague-challenger/cze/2000/m-ch-cze-02a-2000/draws-and-results/ and Vacek the winner in December .. on indoor hardcourt, though https://www.itftennis.com/en/tournament/prague-challenger/cze/2000/m-ch-cze-03a-2000/draws-and-results/. I have already corrected for on en.wiki. Thanks for pointing that out.95.250.109.34 (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your activity in fixing inaccurate articles.
The information about Sparta Praha venue for 2000 edition is in challenger bulletin 2020 issued by I. ČLTK (BTW Vopička and his company Advantage Cars sponsored the tournament until 2019, in 2020 it was no longer named Advantage Cars Prague Open), first article "Turnaj pro příští hvězdy" (Tournament for the next stars, with image of Jan Kodeš and his nephew Vopička as previous general sponsor), text: Štvanickou sérii přetrhl až rok 2000, kdy se sice hrálo pod stejným názvem, ale na kurtech Sparty. O rok později se turnaj znovu vrátil na Štvanici. (The Štvanice series was not interrupted until the year 2000, when it was played under the same name, but on the courts of Sparta. A year later the tournament returned to Štvanice)

I found only in Czech sources for the tournament in Karlovy Vary 1996:

Nineteen-year-old Czech tennis player Lenka Cenkova, 145th player in the world, is one of the biggest surprises of the international Karlovy Vary tournament Pupp Czech Open 1996 ([6], Czech Radio)

The main draw of the 1996 Pupp Czech Open tennis tournament started in Karlovy Vary on Monday. ([7], Czech Radio)

ITF page and WTA page. De wiki has separate article, WTA Karlsbad, correct text: The tournament took place again in Prague from 2005 to 2010.

It really looks like a separate tournament, which was played in 1996 instead of Prague. Respectively in the sources there is no connection with Prague as only an edition of Prague tournament. I plan to update and establish a separate article on Czech wikipedia (and connect it with de wiki). Cheers, Kacir 21:25, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, following up to the talking above, very interesting i must say, i have another question and a "gift" for you. After some more digging infos, i found out this archived version of TK Neridé website, with very detailed info on 2003/4/5 editions of Czech Indoor Open (plus combined ITF women apparently). Now i am curious what do you think about it since in the bulletin i enjoyed reading (i guess you'll enjoy it even more in your mothertongue and not using google translate as i did), it is stated that the tournament is at his tenth edition (quote= "Jse Mužský turnaj Czech Indoor Open se hrál v Průhonicích už pojedenácté"), meaning it started in 1996 (ITF men all the previous to year 2000??), not to mention that the TK Neridé was opened in 1999, so we are missing at least 3 editions (1996/7/8), played elsewhere, i guess.

But even more puzzling is that this is posted on the website of TK Neridé, which has this address V Chotejně 7/700, 102 00 Praha 10, while in the fact sheet the site of the Czech Indoor Open is this: CLUB HOTEL PRAHA PRUHONICE 252 43 PRUHONICE 400 PRAGUE, which is far from the previous address and by the way i found out in google maps being also v bankrotu a opuštěná which should have been happened around 2014 according to the date of the last post left on its fb page (by the way fantastic main picture there, i would like to have it uploaded on wiki, but i don't know about common licenses and such).

So, we have two very different and distant locations. Fact sheets of 2003/4/5 confirm that two-way infos.

The question, in the end, is which one was the venue for Czech Indoor Open? My guess is TK Neridé was at the time located (also) at Sportovni hala Club hotel Pruhonice, which poses a question on what should be written as "venue" in the infobox. I'll probably go with TK Neridé, but i'm not sure after this much digging infos. Maybe "Sportovni Hala Club Hotel" could be an option.

What is your opinion? Thanks in advance, as usual, for your answers. I always appreciate them. Cheers Opencross (talk) 23:49, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

As you mention quote: Mužský turnaj Czech Indoor Open se hrál v Průhonicích už pojedenácté (11th edition), I can't find it (in bulletin).
To the tournament Czech Indoor Open I found out, that it was the largest indoor tournament in the Czech Republic. Chronicle of Průhonice from 2003 (p. 179), as of November 17 states, that [in 2003] it was the 10th edition of the men's tournament. From 2001 to 2005 it was part of ATP Challenger, see de + it wiki. The organizer was the club TK Neridé, as the President Czech Tennis Federation Kaderka said ([8]): "Akce TK NERIDÉ mají už tradičně vysokou organizační kvalitu ... říká ... Kaderka před ženským a mužským turnajem, které se už tradičně konají v Průhonicích." [TK NERIDÉ events have traditionally high organizational quality ... says ... Kaderka before the women's and men's tournaments, which are traditionally held in Průhonice]."
CLUB HOTEL PRAHA-Průhonice was not part of a TK NERIDÉ, that did not own it. The club only used indoor courts for the tournament, Business Register: the only owner was Karel Pech: jediný a výhradní vlastník obchodního podílu firmy CLUB HOTEL PRAHA-Průhonice, spol. s r.o. se sídlem Průhonice 400, IČ 26686031 ve výši 100 % Karel Pech [sole and exclusive owner of the business share of the company CLUB HOTEL PRAHA-Průhonice, spol. s r.o. ... in the amount of 100% Karel Pech].
So, as a venue I think can be mentioned "TK Neridé" as well "Sportovni Hala Club Hotel" or "Club Hotel Praha-Průhonice". Cheers,Kacir 12:26, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

"As you mention quote: Mužský turnaj Czech Indoor Open se hrál v Průhonicích už pojedenácté (11th edition), I can't find it (in bulletin)."

It was at page 9 of the bulletin last 4 lines above the pictures at left.

Anyhow, if you 've find out that it's going back 10 yrs from 2003, we are missing a big chunk of info about it ( maybe it was a men's/ women's ITF; the very ITF site is not helping going that back in time).

I find it peculiar a tennis club with 3 indoor courts is the organizer of a tournament onto... external indoor courts, but i'm ok with that (maybe they needed more courts, or the deal was for hotel (& accomodation) & courts). I have already gone ahead and wrote the page of the tournamentS, Neridé Prague Indoor and Czech Indoor Open. I cannot justify that on TK Neridé archived website the list of past champions stopped at 2003 edition. It makes me think there were two different tournaments, as of now. Regarding the venue, i went with double language version, so people can identify it visually on google maps by using the czech original name (or that was my experience). Opencross (talk) 22:09, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks again for your activity and creating the articles. Yes, the early stage is a mystery. In addition, the club TK NERIDÉ itself was founded in 1995, that is, when the tournament had to be played. I'll let you know, when i find out something new.Kacir 23:00, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

A beer for you!

It's been a pleasure talking to you. I appreciated all your replies. Thanks for your time. Cheers ! Opencross (talk) 22:16, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, You're welcome. ;-) Kacir 23:05, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, here we go again :) Kidding. Just a follow-up question on a part of Prague tournaments i was kind of overlooking, but then it has come up recently: Do you have some sources on why these three

1992 HTC Prague Open

1993 BVV Prague Open

1994 BVV Prague Open

should be considered at the start of the women's tournaments in Stvanice? To better phrase it, they can be considered as first editions of the same tournament which included first ECM tournaments?

Because i found that 1995, 1997 and 1998 were the ones, since they are explicitely named into its archived website (see the list at the right side). I found strange they went into such trouble as to make such a long list only to cut out 1992, 1993, and 1994 years (it looks very similar to Czech Indoor Open's case above, i.e. without a clear mention/citation).

Sorry to bother you again, but the fact is you write good answers. Cheers. Opencross (talk) 22:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, it looks interesting, several Czech newspaper sources are different :

• Past winners at the bottom are divided into "ECM Prague" and "PREVIOUS CZECH OPEN TOURNAMENTS" on iDNES.cz
• The 6th edition of the Prague WTA tournament (2006) [Šestý ročník pražského turnaje WTA] on Aktuálně.cz
• In agreement with the WTA, the 8th edition (2008) [Po dohodě s WTA se osmý ročník] on Protenis.cz
• Novotná ... won ... the 7th edition of the Škoda Czech Open (1998) [Novotná ... vyhrála ... sedmý ročník Škoda Czech Open] on Czech Radio.
  So, I will send an e-mail to I. ČLTK in Štvanice. If the answer comes, I'll let you know. Maybe the WTA has a department, that takes care of history, and where to ask.Kacir 06:08, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, matter of fact is that even the Sparta Prague Open Challenger editions played in TK Sparta Praha are dubiously part of a different tournament. I saw on archived versions of its precedent website www.pragueopen.cz ( i call it previous since ATP on its calendar page for Challenger Tour now has switched to tkspartapraha's website as the official one- two articles dedicated to the tournament seem to me not enough to make the change, it was also 2 articles on the previous official website) that:

1) Rosol 2014 win was called "second victory" of Prague Open (meaning the first was 2011)

and

2) the tournament director said in an interview he was ready for another edition of the tournament (not a new edition) in 2014.

Sorry for not providing the exact links, i cancelled the reference i gathered initially, but they all were into the news section of the archived website, one in the interview after Rosol win, and the other before the 2014 edition began.

I was on the verge of merging those editions with those played on Stvanice with some kind of sign (another column or different colours) to mark they were played on TK Sparta Praha courts and to place a dubious tag on the main page of both I.ČLTK Prague Open and Sparta Prague Open Challenger pages with an explanation of these findings into the section on their talk pages. But then after the retracting of the official website on ATP page, this resolution folded from strong into weak category, also because there was no clear mention of Sparta Praha editions on www.pragueopen.org, the official I.ČLTK tournament website.

So i was facing an archived official website version vs another official website version of past finals, which is the definition of "stalled situation", since i deem official websites the primary sources of reference for tennis tournament articles.

My broader opinion on the matter is that "Prague Open" was used in a large context in the past to mark any tournament played in Prague, maybe because of sponsor problems or somethingelse there wasn't really an established tradition before ECM kicked in (even Skoda Czech Open was not so forthcoming, [its 1995-97-98 editions are called ECM on official website- no direct call to correct it??!] as to make its pretty long tournament to be recognized and have benefitted in retrospective from the sponsorship it gave in any case, in brief it was a case of bad marketing). I think all the editions gathered in Sparta Prague Open Challenger can and should be considered as Prague Open II tournaments -Prague Open I is for those played on Stvanice- but nobody thought at the time to give them continuity by assigning a name to stick with (no main commercial sponsor being the primary cause), and so here we are trying to give them an order, and the more we pull the strings the more they got entangled.

By the way, maybe it's not your case, but when i tried to contact directly tournament, granted not tennis club, i got nihil answers. Well, i was asking for the technical name of surface and maybe that was a too far request in retrospect. Thus i won't be waiting for an answer this time either. But, you know, you cannot say until you try. Maybe this time is different since it comes from a citizen of the same country of the tournament, not to mention your writing skills. Cheers. Opencross (talk) 17:08, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

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