Mrv3rsac3
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New York City English
editYour edit summary on the page New York City English is unacceptable. In the event that such edit summaries continue, you could be potentially blocked from editing.LakeKayak (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
- Issue settled.LakeKayak (talk) 02:40, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- @LakeKayak:So you reverted it without consensus again? And "original research" isn't a catch-all term to define valid sources, valid quotes, valid attestations that make a case, contrary to the one you're trying to make, which is that Donald Trump, a native-born New Yorker, who grew up in New York, for whom source, after source, after source affirms his New York accent, isn't a NYC English speaker.--Mrv3rsac3 (talk) 04:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- @Mrv3rasc3: The note "Issue settled" had nothing to with removing "Trump" again. It was a separate note telling future readers that we did reconcile.
- Your sources are "original research". Some of them were blogs, and two of them didn't even mention the New York accent, dialect or even a similar term.
- As for what the issue, I think the term "New York accent" may be used to refer to the stereotypical New York attitude when speaking. I would prefer to have a basis on phonological grounds for defining someone as a speaker of a dialect.
- Also, the original removal was done by Wolfdog without any concensus either. The discussion on the talk page came after. However, I think if you feel "Trump" should be reinstated, you should talk to Wolfdog about it.LakeKayak (talk) 21:05, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- @LakeKayak:Only two of those sources I cited, the WaPo article and the NY Mag article, both of which were proper articles, not blog posts, and one of which quoted linguists, attesting to the fact that he has a NY accent. If other sources aren't valid, fine, those can be removed. But you're setting the bar too high in asking that phonological studies be necessary to include a speaker in a list like this. Cultural perception is enough. We would have to remove the vast majority of that list, if not all of them. Can we find an article for Meowth from Pokemon attesting "Meowth's thought vowel is raised, and he consistently demonstrates the mid-Atlantic short-a split."?--Mrv3rsac3 (talk) 21:55, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- Just for a goof, I listened to a long video clip of Meowth speaking and wrote down each of his accent features. Although this is obviously my own original research, here's what I found: he's actually a very consistent user of NYCE features. (In fact, I found no deviations from NYCE in this clip). His accent is often non-rhotic, the short-a split consistently follows the Mid-Atlantic pattern (the words I heard were basket, stand, chance, fast, versus alphabet, happy, pal), he uses the intrusive "r", there is a curl-coil merger but not a Mary-marry merger, thought is very high, th-stopping is common, and /hj/ becomes /j/. Wolfdog (talk) 15:00, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
- My real issue is that Wolfdog described Trump's accent as being "highly inconsistent". My only conclusion is that you take the issue to him. He probably would know better than I would on this one.LakeKayak (talk) 22:15, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- @LakeKayak:Fair enough. We can all talk it out on the talk page. Another point if I may, the majority of those speakers are inconsistent. New Yorkers are highly conscious of their accent, and particularly celebrities and those in the entertainment industry, they have the ability to turn it up and down. So there is going to be a lot of variability on that list, Fran Drescher vis-a-vis Adam Sandler for example.--Mrv3rsac3 (talk) 22:28, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Your edit from two weeks ago was not in alingment with our diaphonemic guide Help:IPA/English, which maps General American /ɔr/ that corresponds to Received Pronunciation /ɒr/ to /ɒr/, not /ɔːr/ which is a different vowel in Received Pronunciation. I've corrected it. Mr KEBAB (talk) 18:57, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
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