Murgs2

October 2024

Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits to Summerhill, Wrexham, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. Welsh place names are not generated through Google Translate. But sourced to use in Welsh. DankJae 23:59, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

You say that Welsh place names "are sourced to use in Welsh" (whatever that means). OK let's hear what your source is. The name Brynhyfryd only exists on Wrexham bilingual road signs which are a recent creation. I live in the area and I can tell you that Summerhill is never referred to as Brynhyfryd by local residents. If you google Brynhyfryd Wrexham you will find just two examples of the combination, one being the Wikipedia article on Summerhill and the other the list provided by the Welsh Language commission.

The Welsh language commission's brief was to standardise spelling

and I think it most unlikely that they ever checked to see if Summerhill really was called Brynhyfryd by the Welsh.

It would appear therefore that

the Wiki evidence used for the existence of Summerhill in the form of Brynhyfryd is only based

on a single source who no doubt

got the name from Wrexham Council. 148.252.159.14 (talk) 03:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I provided sources on the article talk, compared to the apparent zero sources for your generated name, which is WP:OR as a result. Raise it with the council or commissioner if you wish to change the Welsh name, but do that first rather than add the not recognised Welsh name here.

If Brynhyfryd isn't used by Welsh-speakers, I guess it doesn't have a Welsh name instead? No sources found for your proposed still.

Welsh place-names for many places in Wales that originally only had an English name are also "recent creations", so not unusual. The current Welsh name, even if erroneous, has so far stuck more (being the only recognised one) than your proposed. Promote the use of your alternative translation in the real world first, to locals or the council, before adding it here. Not the other way round. DankJae 07:24, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

You're right - it doesn't have a Welsh name. Bryn yr Haf is simply Summerhill translated into Welsh. The Wiki article simply states "Welsh: Brynhyfryd" suggesting this is a Welsh translation, not "Welsh name Brynhyfryd". I simply pointed out what the correct translation of Summerhill was. It has always been known as Summerhill on maps even back to the tithe maps. As you say, it is a recent creation. Since the vast majority of people in this area are not Welsh speakers it seems highly unlikely that someone or some people have sat down and said "Well it's called Summerhill in English, but let's call it Brynhyfryd" instead of translating Summerhill to Welsh. There is no mechanism for such an event.

Names are always historic or if new, created by the local authority. Because Brynhyfryd is a very common house name and bears a superficial resemblance to Brynyrhaf, also a house name,

my guess is that some ill- informed person with a smatteri g of Welsh has confused the two.

Anyway I take your point about arguing the matter with the local authority so have written to them to see what they say 148.252.159.14 (talk) 08:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

"Welsh: [name]" is the common format here for Welsh place names (or any other language), like "Welsh: Caerdydd" at Cardiff. Translations into Welsh aren't really included in leads unless they're the proper Welsh name, only they're included in the body in "name" or "toponymy" section if needed. Otherwise it would be more likely at Welsh Wikipedia as it relates to Welsh not English.

Wish your enquiry well. Wrexham council isn't exactly reputable for its translation department. DankJae 10:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)