Mustangtamer

Welcome!

Hello, Mustangtamer, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited was Wikipedia:Teahouse, which appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

To reduce the chances of your contributions being undone, you might like to draft your revised article before submission, and then ask me or another editor to proofread it. See our help page on userspace drafts for more details. If the page you created has already been deleted from Wikipedia, but you want to save the content from it to use for that draft, don't hesitate to ask anyone from this list and they will copy it to your user page.

One rule we do have in connection with conflicts of interest is that accounts used by more than one person will unfortunately be blocked from editing. Wikipedia generally does not allow editors to have usernames which imply that the account belongs to a company or corporation. If you have a username like this, you should request a change of username or create a new account. (A name that identifies the user as an individual within a given organization may be OK.)

In addition, if you receive, or expect to receive, compensation for any contribution you make, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation to comply with our terms of use and our policy on paid editing.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! 331dot (talk) 16:59, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

October 2023

Hello, Mustangtamer. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Mickey Hart, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template);
• disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest § How to disclose a COI);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam § External link spamming);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. 57.140.16.12 (talk) 15:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I'm 199.208.172.35. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Mickey Hart, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean? I read sourses dobI put my namexas the source of the edit? Bc the paragraph is about Harts famiky which i am a member of. I didnt notice any other credits? Help! Mustangtamer (talk) 13:41, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:38, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Stop!

Hi - I'm Girth Summit, and administrator here. You have made a number of unsourced assertions about a living person - that is not acceptable. I'm going to type out a longer message, but I wanted you to see this one first and stop what you're doing so I don't need to place a block on your account to prevent it. Give me a few minutes to type and I will give you some more information. Girth Summit _(blether) 14:10, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

How do I add the source when I am a primary source? I think it is relevant for me to be added I am his sister by the SAME MOTHER. Do I need to prove who I am? or who our mother is? I do have that just tell me....Don't block me. I am just computer challenged Mustangtamer (talk) 14:13, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

OK, more info as promised. First things first - Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. We exist to summarise information that is already available in reliable, published sources. We are not a place for insider knowledge, for gossip, for spreading the news about something, or anything like that. If you know something - even if you know it for an absolute fact, and saw it happen with your own eyes - you should not add it to our articles unless you can verify it by recourse to a reliable source. If you can't, then it stays out of the article. This is covered at WP:V, one of our core policies; reliable sources you can use are discussed at WP:RS.

Now, everything I just said applied to all subjects, but when the subject of an article is a living person, there are stricter requirements. These are covered at WP:BLP. You must not say things about people - even people you know, or to whom you are related - unless you can support the asssertion by citing very reliable sources. That policy applies to all pages, not just articles - so please do not repeat personal anecdotes or observations about living people on the help desk (for example), unless you have published sources to support them. We simply don't want that kind of material on this website - put it on Facebook or something.

So, the short answer to your question is that if the only source of information is yourself, then we don't put it in the article. It doesn't matter who you are, or who your mother is - it's about what published sources say, and if they don't mention you, then neither do we. If there is a biography about this person, which mentions you by name, then it would potentially be possible for a mention to be made of you. But, to be clear, you should not be the one to decide on that, because you have a conflict of interest. We all have conflicts of interest - it just means that you have a personal interest in something, and so it is more difficult for you to write about it objectively and make unbiased editorial judgments. There is an article about my wife, who is an academic historian of some repute; I don't edit it, I leave that to others who are better able than me to be objective. You should do likewise with this article about your brother - at most, you could post a suggested change on its talk page, with a link to a reliable source that mentions you, and allow someone else to make the decision. Edit requests can be a good way of doing that. Best wishes Girth Summit _(blether) 14:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

OK so you are under the misunderstanding that there is a conflict. I do not view fact as conflict bc he didn't or omitted mention of me. I have nothing to gain and I am not being not objective either. I have changed other articles I was able to navigate. )

(the sheer fact that you have threatened to remove me as a user I believe or block me) or whatever, would say that maybe there was something mentioned. And I don't spread GOSSIP or use facebook for any sort of purpose. I don't appreciate that reference I am a grown ass woman and I just want to learn how to do this properly, Facts are facts. I will get them straight one way or the other. My 1st edit that mentions my dad as a contributor ay have been indeed a bit much without a source. I do apprceiate you referencing the talk to get someone else to do it for me. So...where does that leave me? Can I produce a newspaper article about my birth? or what? Or photos of him and I and our mother? what can I do?It is supposed to be for ANYONE TO EDIT!!?? I am not finding a welcome communtity here!! Mustangtamer (talk) 14:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You do have a conflict of interest - you are trying to write about yourself, which is the most fundamental conflict of interest any of us can have. I'm not going to argue back and forth with you on this, we automatically treat anyone writing about themselves - or their friends, their family, their employer, anything like that - as having a conflict of interest. We ask them not to contribute directly about that subject, but permit them to make suggestions on articles' talk pages. You aren't required to agree with that, or even to like it, but you are required to abide by it I'm afraid.

I didn't say 'gossip' to insult you, apologies if I got the tone wrong there. What I mean is that you were writing personal anecdotes about this person's interactions with you, and with your mother, on her death bed. I do not doubt the truth of those anecdotes, but if they cannot be supported by published sources then I'm sorry to tell you that they are in violation of our BLP policy, and they may not be published here. Again: our purpose is to summarise information that is already in the public domain.

What you need is a reliable, published source about Hart that mentions you by name as being his half sister. Then, we can consider adding in a sentence saying something along the lines of 'Hart has a half-sister, <your name>, born in <whatever year>'. If the article mentions your career and musical accomplishments, then they could potentially be mentioned too.

Now, this is a project where everyone is invited to edit, but not where everyone is invited to add whatever they like. This kind of thing happens all the time - someone registers a new account, they try to add stuff about their wife, their father, their best friend, or whatever, and they get frustrated because we remove it. But imagine what would happen if we didn't do that? This is the internet - anyone can claim to be anyone they like. I could pretend to be Nat King Cole's illegitimate grand-child by his manager's daughter, and add a whole paragraph about a made-up affair to our article about him. It would be exceedingly easy for people to fabricate stuff, write hoax articles, etc. So yes, you are welcome to edit about almost any subject under the sun, but we strongly discourage editing about yourself or people you are personally connected to, and we require that you draw the information you add from reliable sources, rather than from personal knowledge.

I hope that makes sense. Best wishes Girth Summit _(blether) 14:49, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

So what you're saying in order to post on his site I have to have a published work that notes my birth that I am his half sister I already see posts on the talk of stating why doesn't his half sister have a mention in his article so there's people already asking about it so then what do you do I was born 20 years after him by the same mother he knows I exist I have pictures of him and I with our mother I have to have an article that states that I'm his half sister and article that he acknowledges me in other words what about Jerry Hartman is there an article that states that he's Mickey's half-brother is that how he's on there because Mickey never had anything to do with Jerry in fact I know that he has had nothing to do with them and that would stated there is simply his saying that that's just from his own reference probably or somebody else's but he's had nothing to do with Jerry ever he was never even mentioned in my house by my mother at all so I don't know how he ends up on Mickey's page that he's his half brother from a father that was never there that he never had any contact with this brother but he did have contact with me I'm just not mentioned because I don't necessarily run in the California circles he's had nothing to do with any other family he didn't contact his aunt and his uncle or his cousins or anything he didn't answer their phone calls I mean he's a rockstar let's face it a lot of these rock stars don't have anything to with their families but it doesn't have any reason why their sister or brother should not be mentioned as being family that's simple I didn't write a bunch of extenuating stuff other than the first time that I wrote about my father who did contribute to his albums maybe I shouldn't have wrote that but if I had just to mention that I'm a sister I'd be happy so how did I get that done do I have to create my own page and show a reference to my brother with a picture of him on my own page and put a link to it back to his page Mustangtamer (talk) 14:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Im not wanting to go back and forth. Because hes famous there has to be a piblished announcement of him mentioning me to be on his page period or enough ppl have to be interested enough for your encyclopedia to investigate or make the edit...it cant come from a birth certificate or announcement by our mother showing we both are her kids...? Or some other means as a photo of us? Or him holding me as a baby or later unless theres a published piece by his acknowledgment or by the press? Thats what im seeing? So how do i reference him on my biography? Not at all? I cant mention i have a brother or who he is...or i can? Its nit a conflict he just has no contact with me anymore and he had little or none with anyone. In fact i see someone asking about Creek. Theres also a gorl mamed Christina his sister so theyre both h8s 2 other kids he never mentions either. In fact he only mentions his own son bc of the recording in utero. He mentions nothing of him niw. Of course i know why but youd consider that gossip. I think the prison records would be significant evidence of why. The boy spent 20 yrs in and out of one. I saw him 2x at my moms house whike i lived there. Taro is 1983 jan 13th birthday. So hes 20yrs younger then i am.i dont care to put those things in any puplushed page i apologize if that info camecout there it wasbt his page it was the talk section. I was unaware that i couldnt say a direct message to you there..was unaware. I apologize. Mustangtamer (talk) 15:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

and by the way I didn't post something about our mother's death bed on his page I posted it on talk I thought anyway it was not on his page as the edit Mustangtamer (talk) 14:57, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think I'll make my own page and then put a picture of me and him and her mother on that page with a source which is myself since it's my picture and I own it that I can post it on my page so you going to tell me that I can't post a picture of him on my page and my family ? Mustangtamer (talk) 14:58, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I've removed the mention of Jerry Hart. It was cited to a what appeared to be some sort of self-published blog, and it didn't support the assertion that he is Hart's half-brother, it should never have been added - thank you for flagging that up, things like that slip through the net sometimes.

Yes, what I am saying is that in order to have the article mention family members of the subject, you need to have a reliable, published source connecting the subject with those people - personal knowledge isn't enough. Also note that we can only say what the source says - if it just mentions your name, we will only mention your name, not the details about your career, where you live, your fondness of horses, and so on.

Respectfully, it doesn't matter whether or not there are other people on the talk page asking about his sister. The answer to those people should be the same as the answer to you: where are the sources supporting this? If they can be brought forward, we have something to discuss, but until that happens, then no.

And no, I would strongly recommend that you do not attempt to publish an article about yourself. This is covered at WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY, and also I very much doubt whether you would meet out notability requirements. For an article to be written about someone, there need to be multiple, independent secondary sources giving them significant depth of coverage. Every day, we delete dozens of badly sourced articles that people have written about themselves. Please don't be that person. Girth Summit _(blether) 15:31, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You doubt that I am not notable? Like I am an average person? WOW! I just dont have an affection for horses. I am a well documented rider competitor and trainer, there has been many magazine articles written about me that I can reference. I may not be world-reknowned however, but I doubt everyone that is on wiki is....wow, really, so only for the rich and famous huh? wow, thats okay I know where to put the vice grip. Unfortunately, you opened up something that you can not stop! Mustangtamer (talk) 16:58, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You doubt I am notable? Mustangtamer (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You assume an awful lot just because youve never heard of me, I have had several last names. Just so you know. What makes you think that I would badly source content? Mustangtamer (talk) 17:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

you know what ASS U ME stands for right? Mustangtamer (talk) 17:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You had not before now mentioned that you had been written about in multiple magazine articles. That being the case, you may very well be notable - notability is determined not by whether one is rich or famous (my wife is neither, but she is notable by our standards and there is an article about her), but by how many times independent, reliable and secondary sources have written about one, or ones work. If we assume that you do meet those criteria, however, I would still not recommend that you attempt to write an article about yourself - did you read that link to WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY I gave you? (Have you read any of the links I've given you?) Girth Summit _(blether) 17:22, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

so unless I have famous musical ties I just cant be listed as his sister and birth year? Mustangtamer (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

It's got nothing to do with the musical ties, it's all about the sourcing. What do the articles about you say about you? Girth Summit _(blether) 17:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You need to dial down the hostility here. Girth Summit has been nothing but polite and civil with you. Please do the same. I realize it is disappointing and frustrating to hear what they are telling you, but don't take it out on us. 331dot (talk) 17:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

What's the difference. I'm a top notch Equestrian. Who competed in US national circles and was a champion at the highest levels. I also had a judges corner in a renowned magazine. Non of this pertains to being Mickeys sibling that Jerry Hart made a plug for his talk show. I'm not after anything from this just the acknowledgment that he does have a sister. Check Answers.com. is that considered a reliable source? Bc it does mention me there? Mustangtamer (talk) 17:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

No, Answers.com is not considered a reliable source, it is user-generated content. You'd know that if you'd read through the links I've given you. You mentioned magazine articles however - if they exist, and they mention that you are his half-brother, we might be onto something? Girth Summit _(blether) 17:42, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh they have to mention that..hum..well lets see. Maybe my moms vault will open up a mention of him at the time of my birth...come on? Who thinks these rules up? When soneone is famous everyone wants to know who their family is...lets say this? I hot a newsteam to investigate me and validity? I show them private things only i would have...they publish it in a news report if some kind...is it then verifyable as a source? Mustangtamer (talk) 17:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm perplexed that you think these rules are in some way unusual or unnecessary. If our readers come to the article, and see that there is an assertion about a family member, they expect to see a citation to a source supporting that assertion. That's the point of verifiability - you don't have to convince me that you are who you say you are, and that you know what you're talking about - you have to provide a way for the reader to verify the information for themselves.

If an independent news organisation were to write about you, and they saw fit to mention your family connections, then yes that would be a reliable source.

The third party, below, is another adminstrator. They probably saw that you had commented on the helpdesk, and came by here to see whether you were being offered the assistance that you need. Girth Summit _(blether) 17:53, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

And whomever this 3rd party is thats jumping on board....its not necessary. Im not being HOSTILE at all i was joking. Because at this point i thjnk Wikipedia is a joke. They allowed that thing about a non exilistant half brother to " slip in" thats okay. I have alot of means to get it out there and they arent Facebook! Your associate has quite insukted me enough thank you! Mustangtamer (talk) 17:43, 19 October 2023 (UTC)