N1geD

Welcome!

Hello, N1geD, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Sarah (talk) 04:07, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia: check out the Teahouse!

Hello! N1geD, you are invited to the Teahouse, a forum on Wikipedia for new editors to ask questions about editing Wikipedia, and get support from peers and experienced editors. Please join us! Sarah (talk) 04:07, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Huw & Tony Williams

Huw & Tony Williams
Background information
Origin	List the location as 'state, continent'
Genres	Folk
Years active	???? (????)–present?
Labels	If they are under a label, add it here e.g. EMI or warner bros.
Members	Huw Williams, Tony Williams
Past members	list any members they might have had in past
Website	if they have a website put it here

Now I know I didn't have music listed as what I was willing to help out with, but I should have :), that box there will add a lot to your article Huw & Tony Williams, more background information on them like when they started, when they finished (if applicable), the discography you have is great already maybe add the dates of release for each one. A lot of what you have there is great but I can't seem to wrap my head around that first sentence "Huw & Tony Williams were, as one of their later CDs pointed out, an unrelated folk duo from Brynmawr.", maybe try "Huw & Tony Williams were an unrelated folk duo from Brynmawr,which was pointedout in one of their later CDs". Sadly I don't know anything (other then what I have just read) about these guys so I can't help to much with back group info but if you would like any other help I would love to try. (58.165.67.17 (talk) 09:07, 18 April 2012 (UTC))

• sorry I forgot to log in when I posted the above suggestion (Lunashy (talk) 10:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC))
  • yes you can copy the template for the box there, just make sure that everything in it is correct e.g. change website, years active, etc. you can upload images to wikipedia commons [[1]] and from there just type in the name of the photo into the area like I did in the template with example.jpg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lunashy (talk • contribs) 10:19, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice - it was a bit touch-and-go getting the image uploaded (the wizard was a lot more thorough than the Commons page) I also had Sarah provide some advice on putting together an infobox - it was very straightforward to do, but not as informative as I would have liked - there are some pieces of info I could include, but am keen to get the page up as it could then allow me to add in hyperlinks to track lists for the various titles in the discography.

The main criticism I picked up was a lack of verifiable references - so have added 10, most of which are internal to Wikipedia (so ought to be verifiable - otherwise why have they been included?!)

Just waiting for the review now...so thanks again for the assistance. N1geD (talk) 10:57, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to Sarah and Lunashy for the help - infobox and general advice. The article has now been tidied up a bit and is chockful of verifiable references. I will probably do a screen dump to pass it on to Huw for his comments - every time we're in touch he comes up with something new to add....N1geD (talk) 11:33, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi, and glad to see you're gutsy enough to try a new article. I am still adding to, correcting and starting to rewrite existing articles. One thing I noticed while looking at Huw & Tony Williams is all the footnotes you have referring back to wikipedia. This is kinda awkward. If you open this message in edit and take a look at what I did to make the title of your article appear as a link and make your wikireferences that way, it will make for a much neater read. You can access links while editing by clicking on the little chain link icon at the top of the edit box. I really haven't read your article for content, as I am not very conversant in that type of music. I might suggest that you find an existing article on a musician and copy that layout point for point. In any case kudo's for your bravery and keep up both your spirits and the good work. Hope it works out well for you.Gtwfan52 (talk) 22:15, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, N1geD. You have new messages at A412's talk page.
Message added 14:25, 18 April 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

A412 (Talk • C) 14:25, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Huw & Tony Williams

Thanks for the help so far. The article has moved on - when I get a minute I will be looking at gtwfan52's comments (to break up internal Wiki references so that the links cross-refer better) Other than this, there are a lot more references than there were. The main thing now is just to see what the review turns up...N1geD (talk) 09:34, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Cross referencing Wiki

Hello again.

I have now re-visited the page that I submitted (and this version will now be very different from the version I think you're still seeing - no cross-references to Wiki and an infobox with all the items I wanted in it, including a photo imported via the Commons pages (that was a nice hint I picked up along the way - the Upload Photo Wizard is *not* nice)

I only hope that the reviewer will see the current version (up to about 50 revisions - mostly tweaks, including (a) adding references and then (b) 'improving' them so that they go outside Wiki (and example being going to Ralph Mctell's website, rather than staying within Wiki to find him)

It's great how everyone is keen to improve on what I've already done - and the commitment to the reviewer is that this will continue after publication...N1geD (talk) 12:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I think the article has pretty much travelled as far as I want it to go for now. In parallel, I have been loading the back catalogue onto my iPod. (One cassette to convert and I'm done) Also hoping to hear back on venues for this weekend's get-together in Monmouth...N1geD (talk) 12:10, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Reviewer - please note that I'm new to this process - in re-submitting, I didn't realise that I needed to scroll down to see the 'submitted for review' panel. Please ignore the second re-submission. Thank you. N1geD (talk) 12:18, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Why has the photo been removed from the Infobox on this page? The photo is in the public domain. I documented the source when I uploaded it via the Commons page. The CD is no longer on sale and the photo that the CD cover was based on is freely available via Lee Robson's Tumblr web page. I understand that text needs to be edited and am grateful for the people that have done this. But there is no obvious note to say why the photo has been removed. (a) I don't believe it to be copyrighted (b) I have the permission of one of the two artists depicted to do this (and they would be implicated in any Intellectual Property dialogue and (c) I believe it to be fair use.

Also, as far as I can see, the Upload Wizard does not work with unpublished pages - so I am unable to re-apply the photo without going the same route I have already been down.

Bullshit, the photo is not public domain just because you find something on google. You asked at various pages, no read the answers before writing more questions. --Martin H. (talk) 11:55, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Presumed permission

I have now made contact with Huw (Williams) and am assured that the owner of the image would give permission for its use - he is not a professional photographer (and so is unlikely to claim Intellectual Property rights on the image) and was flattered to have it altered for use on the CD. As the CD had a circulation of about 1,000 copies (and the majority within the UK) I am still having difficulty understanding what the possible issues with its use are.

I imagine the suggestion would be that if we are unable to contact the owner, that I use an inferior alternative that I can obtain permission and have to go thru the OTRS process? Isn't there a case for classing this as a trivial below-the-radar item that is highly unlikely to require formal permission as it has a very limited value to a small number of people?N1geD (talk) 20:38, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Martin - thanks for the warm welcome. I can see that some of what is written comes across as naive, but what I am dealing with seems a little over-protective for the material I am dealing with - and also who it has come from. I have re-framed the question in different ways to the people who have made the changes and am now waiting their responses.N1geD (talk) 13:19, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

What's next?

Keen to get on! I have some text for the individual pages that this entry will spawn - even though at this stage it is only bare minimum stuff.37.152.223.136 (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Huw & Tony Williams.
• To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! SpinningSpark 17:06, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand what has now happened - the item has been reviewed twice and these reviews (the most recent being May 2) are at the top of the item page. The item has been submitted for a third review - with the request at the bottom of the page. Although [talk] has it that this dialogie box would be best positioned at the top of the page (i.e. preceding the most recent refusal) it has now disappeared. Not impressed as this leaves me having to re-submit.N1geD (talk) 18:40, 9 May 2012 (UTC) > Now resolved - ND (May 9)

References - remove or retain?

Could someone translate the (Dutch?) comment for the citation on ref 6? Perhaps as it's a wmv file, I should just remove the reference?N1geD (talk) 20:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

References - a further questions

There's also an open request on whether to retain ref. 7? N1geD (talk) 20:54, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

OTRS ref. for image inclusion in Infobox

"OTRS #2012051210006467" - from Zachary at Commons Permissions - for Attribution 3.0.N1geD (talk) 20:36, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Huw & Tony Williams.
• To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia!  Adam Mugliston  Talk  19:23, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Huw & Tony Williams

I have marked the article as non-notable, as from the introduction of the article, I don't know who they are. The article itself looks a bit of a mess and needs tidying up. You're not very clear about help. If you would like to join my adoption school, you're very welcome to, tell me on my talk page, but otherwise I don't know what help you require.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  20:19, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, eventually the AfC will get taken down. I'm afraid you don't seem to be understanding the problems with the article. The article must have a clear introduction, stating in the first sentence who Huw & Tony Williams are. By messy, I mean the list of their CDs is a complete untidy mess. If you think you cannot have anymore input, then I suggest you leave the article and learn how to create articles properly. Yes, my school is interactive. There is a lesson to read, after which there are some questions (in most cases). If you're not interested, then that's fine.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  20:39, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I would not say that I am not interested in your school - just not specifically in connection with this article (as you may have gathered, I am getting a bit cheesed off that I am doing all the work...) The issue with the track listings came about because a previous reviewer wouldn't accept my blog as being the definitive place to get this information - but it doesn't exist anywhere online as none of the CDs are available any more - only existing in private collections (like mine). So that part of the article is a compromise.

As for the introduction, as with Douglas Adams' son of Deep Thought, the intention was to spawn off two other pages - one each on Tony and Huw. This would clearly need some thought - Huw is notable as he has had a more visible career since he split with Tony. But the infobox gives me a way of doing this - and the chronology was a chicken and egg conundrum - which I didn't encounter (or countenance) until the 2nd rejection.

So, as before, I welcome this constructive criticism - what would be nice would be to take the school, correct the problems, add some more solid references (they are forthcoming already, I am being told!) and publish. I should have asked for more specific info on the delay before the AfC is taken down - 30 days? Thanks again, Adam. Will make a note to come back to you about the school - although it may be June (May is turning out to be a very busy month) N1geD (talk) 21:02, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

If there are no real sources on the listings, I'm afraid the article will never get accepted. You could mention them but not in such great detail. There is no specific delay - it gets deleted after several declines or after a while of them not being edited. I have declined, however, several articles which were immediately deleted. I don't think you should be getting annoyed about doing all the work - you wanted to create the article, it's your responsibility. No one else will contribute to an AfC. What you should do is make it a very good sourced stub and get it accepted, then let others do some work.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  21:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

It has become apparent that it is a good idea to have access to someone who can mentor you when putting together a new Wiki page. It's taken a while to locate someone local who is willing and able to do this. I think I have now found someone and hope to pick up where I left off. The first step will be to successfully request an undelete as the page has been 'dormant' for nearly 2 years. N1geD (talk)N1geD

Your request for undeletion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that a response has been made at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion regarding a submission you made. The thread is Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Huw & Tony Williams. JohnCD (talk) 21:19, 30 March 2014 (UTC) Thanks chaps - I hope to sort the ongoing notability issue soon N1geD (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2014 (UTC)N1geD