User talk:Newportm/Archives/2010

Towson University

I am the President of the Economics Society, please refrain from displaying our old website which we no longer use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.202.149 (talk) 01:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that. There was no edit summary below the change to a .tk tld address so it looked like blatant vandalism. In addition please review WP:COI before editing articles on subjects with which you are directly involved. Just saying.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 01:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Jean Rochefort

Teehee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.158.50 (talk) 15:25, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

This response was made subsequent to my reversion of three edits of the article on Jean Rochefort (diff) and my additional talk page posting (diff) on the IP user's talk page. For the record, this user's mischievious tone suggests the edits, translating this article into French on en.wikipedia.org, were not made in good faith. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 19:13, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: File talk:Condom rolled.jpg

Resolved

 –  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 04:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello Newportm. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of File talk:Condom rolled.jpg, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Page was never blanked nor deletion requested. Thank you. The Wordsmith^Communicate 03:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Wordsmith. This diff shows the page's creation and blanking. Perhaps there's no way to delete the spam talk page without also deleting the image? Thank you for your help.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 04:01, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

It actually can be done. For some reason, that edit wasn't showing up in the page history, so all I could see was a user creating the blank page. Anyway, i've deleted it now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. The Wordsmith^Communicate 04:09, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Checklinks

Not sure if you knew about this tool, but if you do, simply ignore this message. Here's the link using Hokulea as the article to check:[1] Viriditas (talk) 05:17, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Nope, did not know about it and was frustrated that my Xenu Link Sleuth was getting denied when I tried to use it. I've just become aware of a major site redesign at PVS, so I'm sure there are many links that need attention in the H article. Thanks. I'm finding some good resources on Mau's star compass. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 06:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

The major problem with PVS, is they have not updated their portal pages to reflect the new links. Viriditas (talk) 06:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

First draft

I'm going to have to move this material over to the main article because people can't stop touching the article and it's getting some attention. Please make any changes you feel necessary. So, the clock starts today on the five day expansion period, however, I would hope to have it ready for a DYK submission in the next 48 hours. If you are interested in coming up with some ideas for the hook itself, please share them. Viriditas (talk) 22:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll make Mau's Star Compass a priority for this weekend. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 01:20, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Cool. I might add some content and ask you to review it. Also, I would like to add a section summarizing Mau's work with PVS on the Hokulea, in summary style from the work you've done on that article. I might add a fair use image later tonight as well. I'm hoping to have a lot done later tonight and tomorrow night, but probably won't submit a DYK until Sunday or Monday. I will file it with your name listed as co-contributor, so you will get credit. Viriditas (talk) 03:18, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't know what your time frame is like, but if you have a few minutes to spare, it would be very helpful if you could summarize Mau's work with Hokulea in the section I created (in other words, expand it). Also, if you could add that to the lead as well, that would be great. I would do it myself, but I have to logoff now. If you can't do it, that's fine. Also, in the early life section, it mentions Finney and his project interest in Mau, but doesn't explain what the project is or its goal. Obviously, it's PVS, but we should talk about what they were trying to achieve and how Mau helped them. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 13:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Nice work! You really know this topic. Viriditas (talk) 08:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Almost thirty years ago I wrote an "A" paper on native navigational techniques for a "Geography of Australasia" class as an undergrad at UCLA.:) By the way, I like your use of the Template:SFN. I have not seen that or the ref Note notation before.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 13:49, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Your expertise certainly shows. What do you think of Jared Diamond? I'm having at least one issue, and I've started a thread on the talk page. Not a big deal, but it looks like there's a bit of a discrepancy with an age quoted by a journalist. See the talk. If you can resolve it, great. Viriditas (talk) 14:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

You're probably watching the talk page, but I think I resolved the issue there. I'm going to be away from the computer for an hour or so. I have a remarked-out section started on the star compass.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 14:59, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Maintained template

I would like to ask your permission to add your user name to a {{maintained}} template on Talk:Hokulea and Talk:Mau Piailug. It's ok to say no, but my goal is to have all the major articles tagged by the Hawaii WikiProject "maintained" by either a project member or someone we can work with to improve it and interface with other editors about the topic. Viriditas (talk) 00:38, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure; go for it. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 02:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Per best template usage instructions, I created User:Newportm/Maintenance. Then, I added the maintained template toTalk:Hokulea and Talk:Mau Piailug. A maintenance watchlist can be found here. You can also change your user subpage to reflect a message about your status (on vacation, inactive, etc.) that will then appear on the maintained talk pages. Viriditas (talk) 03:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

If you are interested in maintaining Polynesian navigation as well, let me know. Viriditas (talk) 10:38, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Mau Pialug

His passing was a great loss. Viriditas (talk) 02:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Yes, a sad milestone in the larger story of a cultural renaissance which he helped spark. We can all be thankful he gave his special knowledge of navigation a life beyond his own.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 04:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I would like to expand the article and get a dyk on the main page. Do you have any preference for what it should say? Viriditas (talk) 07:40, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

That is a great idea; your other work on related topics is outstanding. I have a hard copy of Ben Finney's "Voyage of Rediscovery: A Cultural Odyssey through Polynesia;" I'll look through it tonight for you for notable mentions of Mau and provide you with a selection of any and their page number references. Please let me know if you'd like help finding an image of him for which a suitable free use license can be obtained.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 03:52, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I will create a subpage in my user space where we can collaborate, after which we can update the live article. See User:Viriditas/Mau Piailug for progress. Working on a subpage instead of the live article will allow us to work with a more flexible time schedule (dyk submission is time-sensitive, in this case, 5x expansion in 5 days) Viriditas (talk) 08:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Just saw this mind blowing comment made by an anonymous poster on Hawaii News Now about his death: "With Mau Piailug no longer with us, we need to look forward to learning all there is about the stars; not only navigating by them, but navigating to them. The telescopes atop Mauna Kea are wonderful tools for future navigators of Hawaii, whether traveling by canoe or spaceship. Observing the stars near and far is what the Hawaiians have always done. We should honor the past by striving to advance our knowledge." Viriditas (talk) 09:57, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

That poster will benefit greatly from learning more about Mau from the improved article, if intelligent enough to read it. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 23:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Still in the source collection phase, and I haven't written anything just yet. Do you know if he had more than one wife or the exact number of children? I've found mention of one wife and ~12 children. Hope to start adding new content tonight. Viriditas (talk) 23:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Finney, on p. 221 of his "Voyage of Rediscovery" Finney, Ben (1994). Voyage of Rediscovery: A Cultural Odyssey through Polynesia (in en-US). Illustrations by Richard Rhodes. Berkeley, Los Angeles, London: University of California Press. ISBN 0-520-08002-5. {{cite book}}: Check |first= value (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)CS1 maint: unrecognized language (link) mentions a few relatives. On page 221, Finney describes Thomas Reity, of Satawal, as Mau's nephew and apprentice. TR was aboard Hokulea, with Mau, on 1985 HI to Tahiti leg. On page 114, Finney says Peter Sepelalur, another nephew of Mau's, was aboard H with Mau on Tahiti-Rarotonga leg of same 1985 voyage. Mau's son, Sesario Sewralur, helped navigate H 1995 HI to Tahiti, with Mau onboard.

More relatives: quotes Mau's sons, Antonio Piailug and Henry Yarofalpiy.

And more: Thomas Raffipiy is mentioned as a nephew in

On page 78, Finney writes:

Mau had originally been attracted to the project [Viriditas: My insertion for clarification: the 1976 original voyage] by more than the navigational challenge presented by the voyage to Tahiti. He had also empathized with the Hawaiians over their loss of once vital maritime skills and wanted to play a role in their relearning of these. Mau, who was then in his late forties, had seen that the old navigators were dying off in his culture and that very few young men knew much about the old methods. Fearing that traditional navigation would one day disappear in his islands just as it had in Hawaiʻi, he had been trying to prevent that by teaching the young men of Satawal the skills that had earlier been passed on to him. Despite, however, such efforts as taking Satawalese youths on the voyage to Saipan, Mau was not optimistic about getting them to really learn how to navigate. He complained that they were too busy with school and too attracted to Western ways to undertake the rigorous course of study and apprenticeship necessary to become a navigator, and that, furthermore, they did not seem to care or even realize that traditional navigation was dying and could be lost forever.

...whereupon Nainoa Thompson comes to Mau from Hawaiʻi, seeking to learn more about Mau's traditional navigational methods and knowledge.

On page 76, Finney describes preparing Mau for the original 1976 voyage with the help of the late David Lewis:

...To prepare Mau Piailug for the voyage, David Lewis briefed him on the geography of the islands in this part of the Pacific and the winds and currents that could be expected along the way, all information that an early Polynesian navigator acquainted with this route would have carried in his head. In addition, to alert Mau of how the elevation of stars above the northern and southern horizons would change as the canoe sailed farther and farther south, we held training sessions in Honolulu's Bishop Museum planetarium to graphically show how, for example, as one sailed toward Tahiti[,] Polaris sank lower and lower on the northern horizon until it disappeared at the equator while the Southern Cross curved higher and higher in the sky. During his first few days of the voyage, Mau received further coaching on the pattern of winds and currents from Rodo Williams, a veteran Tahitian seaman on the crew who the year before had sailed a yacht from Tahiti to Hawaiʻi and could therefore provide Mau with a firsthand account of what he could expect to encounter.

On page 69, Finney writes:

...As the canoe neared the Tuamotus on the thirtieth day at sea, Mau told us we would soon see these coral islands, and then Tahiti the day after. A few hours after he made this statement, we spotted white fairy terns indicating land was near, and soon thereafter the trade wind swell stopped, a sign that there was an island or islands ahead of us blocking the swell. Late that night the dim outline of the atoll Mataiva was spied off to starboard, and had the canoe not stopped there to enjoy the welcome of the islanders, the next day we would have seen Tahiti just as Mau had said.

.

This article is a biographic of Mau from infancy, including an incident in which he and fellow sailors were shipwrecked for seven months. Note: This reference is muddy...should it be credited to "findarticles.com" which appears to have scraped the content from somewhere else?

A fine article which notes Mau's role in sparking a cultural renaissance in Polynesia

• YouTube - Mau Demonstrates His Star Compass (in en-US)

Thoughtful mini-bio/obits in The Economist and Washington Post

Good work. I'll take a look at those links. Is it realistic for me to think of the early life section in terms of the range 1932-1975? Do we have any documentation of dates and bio points prior to 1976? I think we do have a few from 1932-1952 at least. Should I just give up on trying to find a birth date? It's not going to happen, is it? Viriditas (talk) 20:40, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, it is going to be very hard to do without crossing into original research territory...I don't imagine Satawal birth and death records are online and open, if they exist at all. And for that matter, while the son's phone number was listed on one of the sources I came across, anyone who phones him and asks for Mau's birthdate is doing original research. It's one drawback of our policies. I'll keep tossing stuff up here for your FYI as I have time. By the way, the 5x expansion in five days is only from the day the real editing commences in the public space, not on user pages, correct?  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 21:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Right, which is why I have it in my user space. We can use primary sources in articles, as long as we use them carefully. Phone calls can't really work for our purposes, since WP:V relies on sources anyone can check, and I'm not sure that calling people is acceptable. I mostly deal with official documents. Viriditas (talk) 21:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I found this webpage which says it is the RMI archives (Republic of the Marshall Islands), open 9A to 4P and all records older than 25 years are public, open records. This page has an email address. I wonder if they would have any idea about how to find Mau's birth date? –Newportm (talk • contribs) 23:39, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that info. I've got some more material to add later to the early life section, and I'm hoping to make some headway (crosses fingers) with what we have so far. Do you have a lead yet on any images? Also, if you feel comfortable talking about Mau's knowledge of what could be called the Satawal star compass, we definitely need a paragraph or two about the more technical aspects of his teaching. Viriditas (talk) 03:30, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I emailed Gail Evenari, a filmmaker who also sailed on H with Mau (1986) to see if she has an image of Mau she'd be willing to release under a suitable license. Received email autoreply that she'd be able to respond after July 25th. On Mau's star compass, absolutely no problem; happy to help. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 04:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Received a reply from Gail Evenari who is checking with another photographer to see which of the two may have taken the shot of Mau, to determine who might be able to release it. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 20:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Internet issues

The island of Maui has had connectivity issues for almost 24 hours now, and I've been unable to help expand Mau's article and submit a DYK. The deadline is less than a day away so it's getting down to the wire. I like the legacy content you added to the lead and I would recommend expanding it in a new legacy section. Also, it would be a good idea to start thinking about the DYK, and what you want it to say. I'm on a cell phone right now, but if I can get connected later I will definitely help. The article is just under the 5x expansion threshold, so it needs additional content. See the hidden comments I left inline for suggestions. Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Passes DYK 5x but still needs hook

Ok, I just checked:

• Start of expansion (21:38, 23 July 2010) Prose size (text only): 1844 characters (304 words) "readable prose size"
• Current (14:00, 28 July 2010) Prose size (text only): 13776 characters (2209 words) "readable prose size"

So we're good to go as long as no content has been copied from other existing articles. I'm assuming it hasn't. Now we just need a cited hook. Any ideas? I'll list a few below here in a moment. Remember, it's important to keep them brief and under 200 characters; The shorter the better. Viriditas (talk) 14:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Hook ideas

Mau Piailug

• ...that Micronesian navigator Mau Piailug (pictured) made the first Hawaiʻi–Tahiti voyage by canoe in more than 500 years using non-instrument wayfinding?
  • Note: This currently appears unsourced in the article. If a cite can be added, it should also be added to the lead section. Viriditas (talk) 15:02, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
    • I've found a source and I'm in the process of adding it. I will submit this as a DYK. During the process, you are welcome to alter this DYK or submit alternate DYK's, and I would encourage you to do so if you so prefer. I'll leave you the link after I finish submitting it. Viriditas (talk) 15:31, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
    • ALT...that Mau Piailug (pictured) navigated a canoe from Hawaiʻi to Tahiti in 1976 using no instruments, the first such voyage in more than 500 years?
      • I've had to strike all of that out because the sources I found support the statement only in relation to Thompson, not Mau. For example, The San Diego Union-Tribune says: "In 1976, Piailug guided the Hokule'a from Hawaii to Tahiti, a distance of 2,400 miles, without charts or instruments. Four years later the voyage was repeated -- this time with Nainoa Thompson, a young Hawaiian protege of Piailug, at the helm. It was the first time a Hawaiian navigator had managed this feat in 500 years."[2] You may want to change the current article if this is the only type of source we have. I have to logoff now, but I would recommend finding a DYK that is sourced and can be checked easily, and nominating it at WP:DYK. Simply follow the instructions at how to list a new nomination and make sure you add a note saying it was a 5x expansion, giving them the start date (and diff to it) above, otherwise they won't be able to tell and they will disqualify it automatically. Viriditas (talk) 15:54, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
• ...that Micronesian navigator Mau Piailug (pictured) enabled the first Hawaiʻi–Tahiti non-instrument sailing canoe voyage in more than 500 years by mentoring Nainoa Thompson? (165 characters with spaces)  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 19:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

A draft is up at DYK. Feel free to edit. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 19:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I just checked the hook on the DYK page and realized I did not READ the INSTRUCTIONS carefully enough. They state that the hook is to be placed in the section corresponding to the date expansion BEGAN, but I had filed it by the date expansion finished. Now it's found in the July 23 section. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 00:46, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that right after you first posted it, but I thought it might be better to let you figure it out. :-) Viriditas (talk) 12:21, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

BTW, it might interest you to read other DYK's and to look at the list of the most successful DYK's. They should generally be short and punchy to draw readers in. Viriditas (talk) 12:27, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Ratings

Not a big deal, but in the future, for anything above C-Class I like to have an independent assessment from an uninvolved editor. It's not gong to matter at this point, because I'm going to ask you to submit it for a GA review. While it still has issues, I think we will have them solved by the time a review is finished due to the turnaround wait time. Viriditas (talk) 01:07, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Mea culpa; I clicked to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Micronesia/Assessment#Frequently_asked_questions which states,
Q:"Who can assess articles?
A: Any member of the Micronesia WikiProject is free to add—or change—the rating of an article."
From that I gathered the protocol was very casual; it did not occur to me different projects might have different protocol. Of course it makes sense to queue the article for independent review. Thanks for the heads up.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 05:13, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, even those instructions are just a guideline. Anyone can assess an article, but some projects might complain. And, I've assessed my own articles as B-Class in the past when I've been unable to find an independent assessment from other editors. Do you feel comfortable nominating this as a GA, or do you want to continue working on it first? My guess is if you do nominate it, by the time someone comes around to review it, we'll already be done. Viriditas (talk) 08:28, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Good job on the nomination. We'll have it done before anyone reviews it. Have you put any thought into tying everything together into a topical series? To see how this is done, check out Wikipedia:Featured topics. You have several options, but my first thought is that the main topic could be Polynesian navigation, but you could narrow it to Hokulea, or even the Polynesian Voyaging Society. You have numerous options available. It's really up to you. Viriditas (talk) 09:23, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

That's an interesting thought... –Newportm (talk • contribs) 14:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

FYI...you forgot to complete the nomination. You worked your way through only two of the three required steps. The third step is to add {{subst:GAN|subtopic=socsci}} to the top of Talk:Mau Piailug. Viriditas (talk) 09:38, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm learning all sorts of new things, thanks to you. I posted that template on Talk:Mau Piailug and I'm going to study your referencing methodology to see what I can learn from it. Thank you. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 14:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Mau Piailug

— Rlevse • Talk • 18:02, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Re; Nickname

Thanks for keeping me updated. Since you're an expert on this topic, I would just go ahead and make any changes you think are covered by the sources we already have. Off-wiki communication with the authorities in question might help us decide on which source to rely more on, and which to put aside. That's just good research. Viriditas (talk) 21:57, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Roger that. Thanks for the reply. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 04:45, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI, keep an eye on the talk page. The review will be starting shortly, as User:Cirt has signed on. It's likely that he will challenge you to add sources to the "Wayfinding and navigation" section, which I reminded you some time ago needed more references. You and I know that it is fully supported, but this needs to be made explicit to the general reader. Viriditas (talk) 03:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mau Piailug

Resolved

 – Article passed GA.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 17:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

The article Mau Piailug you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Mau Piailug for things which need to be addressed. -- Cirt (talk) 16:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the review and tips, Cirt. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 21:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

At the GA Review subpage, could you please move your comments and responses, so they are below the review, and not interspersed in between it? -- Cirt (talk) 22:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Sure; my first experience of this process. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 22:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

No worries, -- Cirt (talk) 22:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Update: article passed good article review 2010-10-05. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 22:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Good collaborating with you.

Sorry? Just where do you think you're going? You're not done, yet. Hehehehe... Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello Newportm/Archives, Viriditas has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Congratulations on the GA. Well done Kahuroa (talk) 10:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of USFA Custer Battlefield Gun

Resolved

 – SD tag removed on redirect page.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 17:11, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on USFA Custer Battlefield Gun, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect to an article talk page, file description page, file talk page, MediaWiki page, MediaWiki talk page, category talk page, portal talk page, template talk page, help talk, user page, user talk or special page from the main/article space.

If you can fix the redirect to point to a mainspace page, please do so and remove the speedy deletion tag. However, please do not remove the speedy deletion tag unless you are fixing the redirect. If you think the redirect should be retained as is for some reason, you can request that administrators wait a while before deleting it. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your reasoning on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. DASHBot (talk) 00:00, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I have replied on the redirect's talk page and added {{hangon}} as requested above. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 18:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)