Nick897
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Robotics
editHi
Edit warring is not the way to do this. Guidelines state that it is the responsibility of the editor making changes to show they are valid. Unfortunately you have reacted to being undone rather than what was done.
I am pretty sure that you know about WP:BRD. If not then you can see that you changed it, I reverted and we should have been discussing. Unfortunately you undid my change and I have undone it again so we can discuss it.
Yes, the first edit was poor English to start with, but was correct this time; however, the second edit changed the wording of a synopsis, supported by the ref. When you changed the wording it is then not supported by the reference.
The two choices are to replace the original, and find a ref for your addition, or to include your additions as a secondary possibility, which is what I would like us to agree on. This would retain the original with its quote and include the second with its own source.
Thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 02:00, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Re @Chaosdruid:
It was included as an addition, no "second version" is needed.
If you look at the Robotics page itself, it does not have refs all over the place. Example: "In 1927 the Maschinenmensch ("machine-human") gynoid humanoid robot (also called "Parody", "Futura", "Robotrix", or the "Maria impersonator") was the first and perhaps the most memorable depiction of a robot ever to appear on film was played by German actress Brigitte Helm) in Fritz Lang's film Metropolis." Only internal links.
So, here are some internal links:
1. http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota "Robota je výraz slovanského původu, (sloveso robotovat = „pracovat“) a označuje ve feudálním systému osobní službu sedláků a rolníků pro jejich pány." (CZ version). Google translate gives you: "Robot is a word of Slavic origin (robot verb =" work ") and refers to the feudal system of personal service to farmers and peasants for their masters." (The word-by-word translation: Robota is an expression of Slavic origin, (the verb robotovat="work") and in the feudal system it indicates personal service to farmers and peasants for their masters.)
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot#Etymology "Karel Čapek himself did not coin the word. He wrote a short letter in reference to an etymology in the Oxford English Dictionary in which he named his brother, the painter and writer Josef Čapek, as its actual originator."
3. http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot#Etymologie (CZ) "Slovo robota bylo známo již v 17. století, ve významu otrocká práce podaných. Mírně pozměněné jej poprvé ve významu stroj použil český spisovatel Karel Čapek v divadelní hře R.U.R. Slovo mu poradil jeho bratr Josef Čapek, když se ho Karel ptal, jak umělou bytost pojmenovat. Původně zamýšlený labor zněl autorovi příliš papírově." says that the word robota was known in the 17th century meaning a slave labor of the vassals. Karel Čapek was advised by his brother Josef to use this word in the R.U.R. play because they didn't like labor. So, what they did is this: robota (=hard work) => robot instead of laborovat(=hard work)=> labor.
It is kind of awkward to have a wiki page without proper explanation of the basics - etymology in this case. I don't really understand what was wrong with the addition (ver 2).
Cheers
Nick897 (talk) 12:38, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
- The correct country at the time of the text (1921) was Czechoslovakia. Though the current term, Czech Republic, is accurate for the present-day name the fact should be mentioned rather than just changing the link - "Czechoslovakia, now the Czech Republic" or similar. It was not then the Czech Republic.
- The text you added ("The precise etymology of the word robot ...") claims that this is indeed the correct definition. The ref does not support this (<ref name="KapekWebsite">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki/Template:cite_web {{cite web]|url=[http://capek.misto.cz/english/robot.html http://capek.misto.cz/english/robot.html]). It does not have a citation for it. The "proper" definition, as you call it, is not supported by any of the main etymological definitions that are in the following paragraph.
- More importantly, and in fact the most important point, is that this is the Robotics page and rightly only has the etymology of the word "Robotics". The Robot page is the one for the etymology of "Robot".
I hope this makes it more clear? Any English grammar problems can be easily addressed though. Chaosdruid (talk) 18:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Re2:
1. nationality
"It was not then the Czech Republic." Yes, BUT: The text reads: "The word robot was introduced to the public by the Czech writer Karel Čapek". So, the term "Czech" REFERS TO Karel Čapek.
If the link "Czech" redirects to "Czechoslovakia", well then it means it is based on CITIZENSHIP, because there is no Czechoslovakian nation, there were only citizens of Czechoslovakia in a certain, and a rather short, period of time. If one shall follow this path, we would get to the moment of time at which Čapek WAS BORN to Austro-Hungarian Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Čapek). So, AHE would be correct, but with a link from "Karel Čapek", not from the term "Czech".
On the other hand, if this shall mean NATIONALITY, Čapek was Czech -based on the nationality, i.e. the Czech nation (living in the Czech republic now).
Finally, it would be the best to redirect the term "Czech" to the "Czech nation" rather than AHE, Czechoslovakia or the Czech Republic.
2. etymology
"...Robotics page and rightly only has the etymology of the word "Robotics"" Yes, BUT: tracking down the history of the word "robotics" leads to the term "robot", unless you don't want to give it a full explanation and leave it half-way.
If one refers to R.U.R. play it must be said that IN THIS CONTEXT the term "robot" was proposed to Karel Čapek by his brother Josef while running on a tramway where the association with the crowded people sprang to Josef's mind. From here "robotovat" (laborovat) and there it goes - "laboranti", "roboti", i.e. working class people working hard - laboring. (ref:http://zooropa.blog.cz/0910/ceska-proza-20-a-30-let-karel-capek)
You chose to leave that out. Well, then the etymology in the said article is NOT COMPLETE.
These are the causes of misunderstanding, no need for further English lectures.
Nick897 (talk) 16:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- There is nothing else to say really, that is why I did not say anything else.
- The etymology of the word Robotics is from Asimov, not Capek. Robot is defined on the robot page, not robotics, and that is where anything about Robot should go. Chaosdruid (talk) 20:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)