Ninahi8

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Reversion

Why did you revert my edit? If you check the name on the song, you'll learn it's Idina Menzel. Ex-Borg Seven of Nine (talk) 18:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I undid your edit because you changed the field "portrayed by", which does not regard who voiced the character, but who played her in the musical. It wasn't Idina Menzel, it was Cassie Levy. Ninahi8 (talk)

Ohhhhh sorry. Ex-Borg Seven of Nine (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

December 2020

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at I'm Still Here (Jim's Theme), you may be blocked from editing. Please don't use self-published sources (Weebly, Blogspot) and interpretations of YouTube as references. Binksternet (talk) 20:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, are Disney+ credits considered as reliable sources, when it comes international dubbings? And isn't Apple music considered a reliable source? Ninahi8 (talk) 21:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Any credits that appear in an official film release are reliable, if you cite the film credits. Apple music is sometimes considered reliable for publication date, but more complex information would require a named author writing a prose piece. Binksternet (talk) 21:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

@Binksternet: can the list on Moana (soundtrack) page be restored then? It's not complex information, it's only a list of songs with performers reported exactly as it was written in the source (which was either Apple music or Amazon Music, if I'm not mistaken). As for movie credits, can you please show me how a quotation to official credits is correctly made (or link me to the page where I can read this information)? And I assume that credits contained in localized DVDs and BDs releases are also considered reliable. Ninahi8 (talk) 21:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The cite template Template:Cite AV media is the one to use when citing an audio record, CD, DVD, video tape, cassette tape, film, television program, etc. Binksternet (talk) 22:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. About the pages Moana (soundtrack), Frozen II (soundtrack) and Loyal Brave True, what's wrong with them? None of them is based on self-published sources. Ninahi8 (talk) 22:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Anything from Charguigou (Disney International Voices) is self-published, for instance https://disneyinternationalvoices.weebly.com/elsa.html. The Weebly platform is a blog tool for making your own web pages. Binksternet (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

As I pointed out, for the pages listed above, provided sources didn't use Weebly: you can check here the sources used on "Moana (soundtrack)", you'll see that they all come from reliable sources. Checking the pages listed above, you'll see that the same is also true for "Frozen II (soundtrack)" and "Loyal Brave True". Sources used in these pages don't breach any rules, so please, restore them. Ninahi8 (talk) 22:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

So, I fixed the sources in a couple of lines, does this look as it should? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Far_I%27ll_Go#International_versions_2 Ninahi8 (talk) 22:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

References

One of Wikipedia's policy guidelines (WP:INDISCRIMINATE) says that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. The policy says that Wikipedia should be "a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject" and that "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia." One of the practical extensions of that policy may be seen at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television where the Broadcast section tells us not to list every international version of the show, but only to tell the reader about noteworthy international versions. I think that solution can be extended to song articles in which there are foreign language versions. Only the notable versions should be summarized for the reader. A complete list is not appropriate. Binksternet (talk) 23:21, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

In such case, I think that, if a whole table is not appropriate, the intro I had written for international versions of Loyal Brave True should be restored: even removing all Weebly-sourced info, you'll realise that the information that will remain is still very notable, namely Aguilera's own Spanish version of the song, and Rosi Golan's (one of the song's writers) Hebrew version, which was even published on Disney's main Vevo channel. Ninahi8 (talk) 13:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

As for the "history" section on the page Disney Character Voices International, why did you wipe it off? Except for a couple of easily replaceble sources, the rest was based off reliable sources, why did you take it down completely, without checking on them? I think that section should also be restored, maybe cutting the bits you consider unreliable, which I can fix later. Ninahi8 (talk) 15:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

At Disney Character Voices International, this removal by me took out a bunch of history that was held together by blogs, even though parts of it could have been retained. The whole premise of the section was based on a few blogs, so I felt that the rest of it wasn't appropriate because of WP:SYNTH. The following self-published sources were the foundation:

• https://web.archive.org/web/20161111062306/http://mapage.noos.fr/disneyparc/disneyfrance-studios.htm
• https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-walt-disney-company-france/-un-doublage-r%C3%A9ussi-cest-un-doublage-qui-se-fait-oublier-/246781028683077
• https://disneyinternationalvoices.weebly.com/snow-white.html
• https://www.antoniogenna.net/doppiaggio/film/biancaneveeisettenani.htm
• https://disneyinternationaldubbings.weebly.com/aladdin--tamil-cast.html
• https://disneyinternationaldubbings.weebly.com/aladdin--telugu-cast.html
• https://disneyinternationalvoices.weebly.com/elsa.html
• https://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Lion-King-Inkosi-Ubhubesi/release/12795712 (Discogs is deprecated at WP:ALBUMAVOID because the information is user generated.)
• https://web.archive.org/web/20161117105634/http://wrelax.com/content/disney-animation-films-marathi
• https://www.non-disneyinternationaldubbingcredits.com/inkosi-ubhubesi--the-lion-king-zulu-voice-cast.html
• http://media-magic.blogspot.com/2009/06/disney-character-voices-international.html
• https://www.sdb-film.de/2009/08/osterreicher-kriegen-ihren-eigenen.html

Another thing you did was to provide the reader with more information than was found in the cited source, for instance with the scanned 1938 magazine http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?aid=fil&datum=19380107&seite=2&zoom=33 which, at the bottom of the page, has a short announcement about the success of Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Your analysis added "German refugees fled from their country" along with Amsterdam and Switzerland locations, none of which is in the cited source.

After that, you wrote "The real turning point for Disney dubbings occurred in the 40s" which was a violation of WP:No original research, based on none of the reliable sources. Lower down you told the reader "no Malay version exists yet" but the cited source did not talk about what has not happened. My removal was because of all these problems. Binksternet (talk) 16:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

You are still violating the WP:SYNTH policy. You are collecting various sources A+B+C+D and analyzing their larger context, how the sources relate to one another, which is new thought – a violation of WP:No original research. And you are still using blog sources, for instance http://danslombredesstudios.blogspot.com/2013/03/le-premier-doublage-de-blanche-neige.html. The basic problem of listing too much unimportant detail remains part of your essential style. Binksternet (talk) 20:32, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I understand the problem, but while the "history" bit can stay as you put it, I honestly think it's important to leave at least one or two lines explaining the difference between "irregularly and occasionally" issued dubbings and "special" dubbings: the former involve languages which might enter the sphare of systematic dubbings, while the latter are languages which are only going to occur once or twice, no more movies are likely going to be dubbed into those languages. By only leaving an explaination for special dubbings in the section which also regards languages like Hindi or Indonesian, you're creating confusion as to the nature of these dubbings. Without going into details, we could just say: "Some languages are usually released on an irregular base, which sees dubbings in the same language being issued sometimes together with the rest of systematic dubbings, and some other times at a later date, usually not for theaters, but directly on TV or streaming services.". By the way, why removing the lines about the Zulu dubbing of The Lion King? Ninahi8 (talk) 20:41, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

There was nothing remarkable about the Zulu version. You provided two citations, both from retail sales sites, which confirm the existence of the Zulu version. But they don't establish the significance of the Zulu version.

You would like to explain to the reader the difference between the regular dubbings and the various special versions. To do so, find a reliable published source discussing this aspect, and summarize it for the reader. Binksternet (talk) 21:06, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Reliable sources would quite simply be Disney+ India and Indonesia, where it would be easy to see that the movies with e.g. Hindi, Tamil or Indonesian dubbings are more than a dozen, while special dubbings only have one each. And what about Loyal Brave True? Ninahi8 (talk) 22:30, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by inserting unpublished information or your personal analysis into an article, as you did at Loyal Brave True. Binksternet (talk) 17:22, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I asked you several times in this discussion what to do about that page, and you never replied to me. Why is that considered "original research"? What was wrong about it? Ninahi8 (talk) 22:09, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

You added a list of international dubbings. What reliable source publishes such a list? None that I know of. So to assemble your own list, you conducted your own original research, finding each version and listing it. You provided references which only show the version exists, not that the version is important to the topic. You added your own larger analysis such as how Sandy "returned for the remake", which is not supported by any of the cited sources.

As per provided sources:

• Christina Aguilera made her own Spanish version of the song.
• Rosi Golan (co-writer of the song) made her own Hebrew version, which was shared on DisneyMusicVevo.
• Per DVD and Disney+ credits, Sandy sang "Reflection" in the 1998 animated movie, and then sang "Loyal Brave True" in the 2020 live action.

Everything listed above can be found in provided sources, just check them. Ninahi8 (talk) 22:50, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I can see that the dubbing roles you listed are true, but Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information says "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia." The sources completely fail to show how the particular dubbings are important to the topic. What you need is a reliable source listing several of the dubbings and saying they are important. Binksternet (talk) 23:01, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Well, in this specific case, I think that at least a couple of lines about Aguilera and Golan's versions should be written down, if anything, because we're talking about the singer and song-writer of this very song, which makes them relevant per se (and again, Golan's version was published on DisneyMusicVevo). Ninahi8 (talk) 23:06, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

You are still fixating on whether it's true. I'm focusing on whether it's important. You will need a WP:SECONDARY publication to establish a fact as important to the topic. Lots of song versions are released but fail to gain notice. Binksternet (talk) 00:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 9

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Disney Character Voices International, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Roy Disney.

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Could you help me??

Hi. I need your help in Italian Wikipedia, with the voice it:Parrocchie della Lettonia, could you translate the swedish page in Italian?? Thank you a lot--Esc0fans -and my 12 points go to... 13:48, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

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Frozen in Scandinavia

Thanks for the edits. Is it clear from the sources that all 5 will be in the local languages? -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi! No, none of the sources speaks explicitly of the language used. However, they speak explicitly of a collaboration between Vesturport and the various theatres, which in the case of Norway and Iceland resulted in the theatres providing a whole cast who performed in Norwegian and Icelandic respectively, and went as far as completely rewriting all of the lyrics (neither productions reused the official adaptations from the localised dubs, unlike the German and Japanese ones). At this point, it's not certain, but highly likely that the Swedish, Finnish, and Danish productions will do the same. Ninahi8 (talk) 23:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Have any opening dates been announced for any of the three remaining planned Nordic productions? -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:48, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Nope, no date set for the others arm. Ninahi8 (talk) 20:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:15, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Musical theatre productions

The recent edit you made to Frozen (musical) was unconstructive. Please do not remove cite needed tags to add sources that do not verify the statements made! We need a source that states that the production *has* begun performances, not one that states that it *is scheduled* to do so. This is always the case: productions that have begun need to be verified by a source published *after* the performances begin that states unequivocally that they have done so. The best thing is a book about the production. Second best is a review that mentions the date that previews and then official opening occurred. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Geeez chill. I swear in the time it took you to undo that edit, comment it as "No! That source does not state that the production had already opened!" with two (2) exclamation marks, and write this whole message, you could have just....googled it. Actually, I think it took me less to google those sources (and there were literally dozens of articles) than it took you to leave all these neat and perfectly calm comments. Chill. Ninahi8 (talk) 11:13, 22 June 2024 (UTC)