User talk:Nlu/archive83

Ways to improve Ran Wei

Hello, Nlu,

Thanks for creating Ran Wei! I edit here too, under the username Eagleash and it's nice to meet you :-)

I wanted to let you know that I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:-

Please see WP:NACTOR

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Eagleash}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ . For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Eagleash (talk) 23:58, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

long time no chat

Hello, this is Ling.Nut. Can you translate this for me? Google translate is no help:

• 六部口坦克追轧学生撤退队伍事件. Thanks ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 16:13, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

  @Lingzhi2: Can you give me a bit more context? (I can look myself later today, but giving me a bit of context would speed things up.) --Nlu (talk) 16:18, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

  One of many many posts by Wu Renhua on the June 4th 1989 event: ]https://blog.boxun.com/hero/201006/wurenhua/5_1.shtml here]. I am cleaning the references of that article in my sandbox. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 16:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

  @Lingzhi2: In that context (as a reference article title) I would render it as "The Incident Where Tanks Ran Over Retreating Group of Students at Liubukou." If it were to become a separate article of its own, a less clumsy title should probably be considered. --Nlu (talk) 17:45, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

• Hey thanks... As for making it into a separate article, that might involve the ability to read Chinese. Regrettably I do not have that ability. :-( I guess nothing is impossible, but it's very highly unlikely... But thanks again for the helpful translation! If you ever need anything, drop me a line... PS, just as an aside, I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of activity on the June 4th page. For example, The Holocaust is a veritable beehive of editor activity, but Tienanmen is something of a backwater on Wikipedia, at least relatively speaking.... but... it is what it is. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 04:55, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Categories

Hi Nlu, thanks a lot for your work categorizing Chinese biographical articles! However, I believe some of the categories you added are WP:OVERCAT, such as categorizing scientists as writers/science writers/educators. Practically all scientists publish and most also teach. Unless a scientist is a noted writer or educator, I don't think these categories need to be added. What do you think? -Zanhe (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: Possibly. I certainly think that's open to discussion. I think we may need to set up some standards thereof, but absent standards, I think think overinclusiveness may be better than uninclusiveness. I certainly had some reservations about including some entertainers as "writers" when the quality of their writing may be suspect, but I also didn't necessarily want to get into value judgments on that issue... --Nlu (talk) 00:00, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Lawyers and law students' signatures needed for Supreme Court amicus brief in favor of publishing the law

Hello, given your userbox I thought you might be interested in helping Carl Malamud's case for the public domain, crucial also for Wikisource: https://boingboing.net/2019/04/25/happy-law-day.html . Best regards, Nemo 21:07, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

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Generals

Hi Nlu, thanks for your categorization work and sorry about the reverts. I don't think military generals should be categorized as politicians even if they are represented in the Central Committee. Regards, -Zanhe (talk) 01:48, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: I see your point. I respectfully disagree - but I'll respect your call on this. --Nlu (talk) 04:04, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Virtually all Chinese generals hold seats in national or provincial Communist Party congresses. The politician categories are WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:NONDEFINING, IMO. This also applies to the categorization of scientists as science writers, as practically all scientists publish. -Zanhe (talk) 19:26, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: Possibly, but while most generals do hold political offices (and are Communist Party members), there are rare exceptions (as to both). But I don't quite agree that "practically all scientists publish." Some are in private businesses and/or are not in academia, in which case they may not publish. --Nlu (talk) 19:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Of course nothing is ever 100%. But when two categories overlap overwhelmingly, only the defining one should be included, see WP:Overcategorization. -Zanhe (talk) 20:06, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: But are these truly nondefining characteristics? I am not convinced. I mean, this is not a situation where someone once appeared in a dorm play and is considered an "actor." That would truly be nondefining. I think that their political offices are nevertheless defining when not clearly honorary. --Nlu (talk) 20:13, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I believe the politician categories are nondefining because they merely reflect the generals' automatic congress seats, and they add no value to the article or the category. In fact, it obscures those generals who hold real political offices, such as the generals that took over local governments during the Cultural Revolution, or people like Liu Yuan (PRC general), who was a politician before joining the military. -Zanhe (talk) 23:06, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: I see your point. I am still not sure that I agree with it. (For example, I'm set to looking at diffusing the Category:People from Yantai category this morning and immediately came across Ba Zhongtan - someone who appeared to had no substantial party/state political offices in his resume despite being a lieutenant general - or, if he had, not mentioned in the article.) It's a situation where I think political offices do matter in terms of a person's significance even if not the primary reason for his/her notability. --Nlu (talk) 13:48, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry I missed your ping. Ba Zhongtan was a member of the 9th National People's Congress. And I can imagine that the author probably did not consider it an important part of his career to warrant a mention in the article. You'd be really hard pressed to find a general who does not hold a nominal political position at the national (for Lt. Gen. or higher) or provincial level (for Maj. Gen.). -Zanhe (talk) 00:40, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Removal of residence categories

Could you explain why you removed the from category of Taipei from Chan Hao-ching? Certainly she can have a new category of Taichung, since she was born there, but she resides in Taipei and that has also traditionally been allowed on Wikipedia. Why the removal? Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:53, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click): I think I had to make a judgment call there - which is certainly subject to differences in opinion. (I was reviewing the category because it is getting large enough for potential diffusion, but before actually diffusing (by different sports) I was reviewing the people in the category to make sure they actually all belong (because this would actually be the first Taiwan city sportspeople category that would be diffused by sport, and I want to make sure diffusion is needed.) I don't think she's "from Taipei" as such, but I'd have no problem if you want to add it back. --Nlu (talk) 02:42, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

The Great Wall of China: Documentary

TV Movie 2007, Discovery Channel, National Geographic. The protagonist is Qi Jiguang, an historical character. Geng Zhou, one of his soldiers, and Chang Ang, the Mongol military leader, are historical or fictional? If you don't know very well this documentary, you can see the full video (Part 1, Part 2). Their names can also be changed with other historical characters related with Qi Jiguang. Here Geng Zhou is renamed Zhou Li. Geng Zhou was probably a fictional character, but in this documentary he is the second main protagonist after Qi Jiguang, then he could have an own page. You could also create the page about that documentary Behind the Great Wall. Please, can you help me, because I'm too busy? Thank you very much. --80.181.64.26 08:17, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't think I can write these pages - out of my area of expertise. Sorry... (However, when I have time - maybe next week - I will try to see if I can figure out whether the two characters you mentioned were historical or not, but not this weekend.) --Nlu (talk) 13:22, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. --87.4.239.210 08:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I just checked. Chang Ang (probably more appropriately written as "Chang'ang" because I think the whole thing was a personal name, not that he had a surname of Chang and a personal name of Ang) was a real Mongolian chieftain. I cannot (quickly) find any historical references to an assistant of Qi's named Geng Zhou or Li Zhou or Zhou Li. --Nlu (talk) 13:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. For Chang Ang, can you find an internet site with his biography? Geng Zhou is surely a fictional character, but in this documentary is the second main protagonist after Qi Jiguang, then can you create his own page with a detailed biography? --95.252.44.246 13:42, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I am not sure that there is any kind of a detailed biography around for Chang'ang. The only reference I could find was within Qi Jiguang's biography in the History of Ming as well as a few references elsewhere in the History of Ming (although a lot of derivative works also discuss him, but only in terms of his acts as discussed therein). If you can read Chinese, Qi's biography is in volume 212 of the History of Ming. The other references to Chang'ang were in volume 228 in the biography of Li Hualong (李化龍), volume 238 in the biography of Li Chengliang (李成梁), volume 239 in the biographies of several more generals (Zhang Chen (張臣), Wang Bao (王保), Du Song (杜松), and You Jixian (尤繼先)), and volume 328 in the general history of the Three Garrisons of Wuliangha (兀良哈三衛) - i.e., three tribes of the Wuliangha region, one of which, Duoyan (朵顏) Chang'ang was the chieftain of.

What it comes down to is that Ming history - particularly Ming defense and ethnic history - is really quite a bit out of my expertise. (Just reading these references, I have some questions as to whether the Wuliangha tribes are actually properly characterizable as Mongol tribes, such that I am not completely sure that if I were in fact writing this article that I'd characterize Chang'ang as a Mongol chieftain, even, in light of these references that I'm reading.) I would not feel comfortable writing about it (even if I had the time and energy right now - and I really haven't had much time to do research and writing substantively ever since I got married about three years ago, although I do hope to get back to it eventually). But if you are interested in writing about Chang'ang, I would greatly encourage you to do so. If you do not read Chinese, I can (slowly) translate these passages for you, and you can digest them and figure out a cohesive timeline for Chang'ang's activities and family relations. As for Geng Zhou, while I know that there are plenty of articles about fictional characters around, I am not sure that I would be as encouraging, but certainly it wouldn't be a frivolous project to do. --Nlu (talk) 14:21, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have time to do it, then can you help me with this three voices (Behind the Great Wall, Geng Zhou and Chang Ang)? Thank you very much. --95.252.44.246 14:3, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I am not sure what you mean here by "three voices." In any case, I don't think I can. Sorry. --Nlu (talk) 14:52, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Please, don't forget it, if you can. --79.44.235.28 08:08, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

As I said before, I really can't take on a project of this degree given my time constraints and lack of sufficient expertise in the Ming era. The most I can do is translate the relevant passages from the History of Ming and let you digest and process them. Please let me know if you want me to do that. I cannot write these articles. --Nlu (talk) 15:11, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Ok, if you can translate the relevant passages from the History of Ming. --79.21.233.181 15:47, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

I will have to do so slowly. I'll get to it from time to time as time and energy permit. --Nlu (talk) 15:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

This would be how I would translate the one paragraph from Qi Jiguang's biography that has to do with Chang'ang:

At that time, Anda was already returning to being tribute-paying. The region west of Xuan and Da were no longer under warfare. However, The Little Prince's descendant Tuman had relocated to a wedge between Han lands and had control over 100,000 archers, so he was a worry for Jimen. Meanwhile, the Duoyan Tribe's Don Huli and his older brother's son Chang'ang were in league with Tuman, sometimes rebelling and sometimes submitting. The spring of the first year of Wanli [(1573-1620)], the two barbarians planned an invasion together. They rambled to Xifeng Pass. They demanded rewards, and if they did not receive rewards, then they would indiscriminately kill and pillage, as well as conduct hunts near border posts, to try to entice and ambush the border army corps. Qi Jiguang laid an ambush for them and almost captured Huli. That summer, Huli again attacked Taolin, but was unsuccessful and retreated. Chang'ang also attacked Jieling. The border guard corps were able to kill and capture many of their people, so the border administrators tried to persuade them to submit. Huli thereafter sent an emissary and offered to pay tributes. The imperial court considered a proposal to give him yearly rewards. The next spring, Chang'ang scouted the various passes but could not breach any of them, so he, along with Huli, forced his uncle Changtu (Huli's younger brother) into jointly attacking. Qi expelled them and captured Changtu. Thereafter, the two barbarians led 300 chieftains and fellow clan members to a border pass, bowed, and begged forgiveness. In particular, Huli wore plain clothes and bowed, begging that Changtu be spared. Qi discussed this matter with the overseer Liu Yingjie and others, and then sent the officers Shi Chen and Luo Duan to Xifeng Pass to accept their submission. They bowed and returned the border people that they had captured, and they planted their swords into the ground to swear their oath. Qi thereafter released Changtu and agreed to a tributary relationship. Thereafter, so as long as Qi was still at Jimen, the two barbarians did not dare to attack Jimen again.

When I get a chance I'll try to get to the other passages. --Nlu (talk) 15:47, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

At the ending, when Qi Jiguang was the commandant of a military post before he was forced to retire to his hometown, Geng Zhou seem to be his second-in-command who teached the new soldiers. Can you find who was that real-life soldier, even also for more other important roles (wall's construction and insubordination or battles) played in the documentary? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.44.235.38 (talk) 10:32, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

I am sorry that I haven't looked at this for a while. (Had a baby recently.) I tried to look this up in the History of Ming; I didn't find anything quickly. --Nlu (talk) 14:35, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

OK, but don't forget it when you'll have time. In this site there's is the full English translation of the documentary if you don't understand some parts. There is also this site about the Mongol battle who had translated. --82.60.174.40 16:47, 29 August 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.60.174.40 (talk)

Right now, with the new baby, I just simply can't be sure when I can get to it. --Nlu (talk) 15:00, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Have you time in these days for it? --79.35.64.123 09:58, 16 October 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.35.64.123 (talk)

It's a bit difficult. --Nlu (talk) 15:30, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

None? --87.2.63.247 13:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.63.247 (talk)

This baby thing is much harder than anticipated... --Nlu (talk) 05:47, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Ok, but don't forget when you'll have much time. Thank you very much. --95.234.15.10 08:25, 19 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.234.15.10 (talk)

Valid categories

You are removing valid nationality categories - please stop ASAP! GiantSnowman 14:01, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: What's the valid nationality category being removed? Please give an example. (Note that if an article is in a subcategory, it is still in the category, just lower on the tree.) --Nlu (talk) 14:02, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Err like this and many others... GiantSnowman 14:05, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: I don't see why you think that this is something that should be reversed. There should be such subcategories because the category is a (semi-)large one. I've got to stop (to go to work), but this makes no logical sense. --Nlu (talk) 14:06, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

No, it's disruptive and against long-standing consensus at WP:FOOTBALL - the nationality cats should not be diffused. GiantSnowman 14:07, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: OK, then if that's your view (which I have no current intent to edit war over) please restore the city categories, at least. You do realize that these cities are Taiwanese cities, right? --Nlu (talk) 14:09, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Footballers from Taipei

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Blessing in disguise (idiom)

Hi, Nlu! Got here from the offers-to-translate page. No urgency, but there's a phrase at the above article, which is about to go to the main page in DYK, that I can't check the source on. It's An Zhi Fei Fu, and the article says A Chinese folk tale tells of how an injury saved a man's life by preventing him from being killed in battle. The phrase is expressed in the words An Zhi Fei Fu, is that accurate? Thanks for any help! --valereee (talk) 15:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

This story is a bit wacky and I have never heard of it. I am assuming that the phrase is 焉知非福 (or "Yanzhifeifu" in Mandarin), but it is only half of a complete phrase - "塞翁失馬，焉知非福," which came from a completely different story - that a gentleman living on the border ("Sai") lost his horse, but a year later, the horse came back with another horse, so he had two horses. But the story had yet another twist where eventually this led to an invasion that devastated the region although the gentleman himself was spared. See wikt:塞翁失馬，焉知非福. --Nlu (talk) 16:11, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! Ugh, now I'm not sure what to do here, lol. Hm. Maybe I'll put a notation on the talk that the article needs attention from someone familiar with Chinese sayings/folktales/whatever. Right now the article is otherwise very English/western-oriented, and I'm positive other languages/regions must have some similar idiom/concept. Appreciate the help! --valereee (talk) 14:11, 15 September 2019 (UTC) ETA: sorry, didn't mean to ping you to your own talk! --valereee (talk) 14:11, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Translation help for 龍眼之本鬼病者?

I found you from the list of translators, so I hope you can help me. I am working on Draft:Longan witches broom-associated virus and I have used google translate to get me most of the way, but it seems that the Chinese terms for the disease do not use the word 'witch'. The term I found is 龍眼之本鬼病者 Google lends me to believe that this term refer to ghosts and not witches, which seems plausible given the idiom 'witches broom' doesn't necessarily mean anything in China. I am hoping you can provide a good literal translation, and hopefully I can use it as a DYK hook for Halloween or something. Let me know if I'm close or not. Thanks! --Nessie (talk) 03:17, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

References

@NessieVL: Your instinct is right, although the more common term that a Google search yielded for me was the more-closely paralleled 龍眼鬼掃病, which does in fact refer more to ghost than to witches. I would literally translate it as "longan ghost's broom disease." --Nlu (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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Requesting translation help

Hello Nlu, I found your name on the Translators available page and I was wondering if you could help me find an appropriate transliteration of 「维基百科:电子游戏专题」. I don't need the translation, but you can find the context here where I have made a machine-translated guess. If the machine translation is correct then that's fine, but if it's incorrect please help me transliterate the expression properly. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! -Thibbs (talk) 02:44, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

@Thibbs: Your transliteration is correct. --Nlu (talk) 02:32, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

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