Numbersnow
September 2009
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Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits are considered vandalism and are immediately reverted. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop. Consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kralizec! (talk • contribs) 03:15, 20 September 2009
Which edit is this a reference to?--Numbersnow (talk) 07:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
Any of them. There is no reason to convert text to numerals, especially when they start a sentence. 98.248.33.198 (talk) 07:20, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
What are we basing that on? I had read that as a general rule, in the body of an article, numbers greater than nine are commonly rendered in numerals. Huing to the general rule seems like a good thing.--Numbersnow (talk) 07:23, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
And I assume you find the use of numerals in time (as in 9 A.M.) to be appropriate as well, right, rather than "nine A.M.")?--Numbersnow (talk) 07:31, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia's style guide on numbers; note the guidance for comparable quantities, and for numbers starting a sentence. Isaac Lin (talk) 07:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. Got it. So numerals should not be used to start a sentence (got it). And instead of saying nine and 11, we should say 9 and 11. Right? But that seems to be preferred over nine and eleven, right?--Numbersnow (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Both practices can be followed. Typically with both numbers being on the small side, in ordinary prose it may be more usual to spell them both out, rather than using digits. Also note in the spirit of WP:RETAIN, where valid variations exist, general practice is to leave the existing variation in place, rather than alter them. Isaac Lin (talk) 07:47, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Exactly so. If a text already says "nine and eleven", there is no need or mandate to change it to "9 and 11" (keeping in mind the greater than two words exception), and it is best left alone. Hertz1888 (talk) 07:51, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Got it (I think). But it is fine to change nine a.m. to 9 a.m., right?--Numbersnow (talk) 07:54, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- As far as I can tell, and that doesn't seem contradicted by the style guide. (It wouldn't be correct to change it to 9:00, though, as I have seen done, as that would be implying false precision.) Hertz1888 (talk) 07:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Got it (I think). But it is fine to change nine a.m. to 9 a.m., right?--Numbersnow (talk) 07:54, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Exactly so. If a text already says "nine and eleven", there is no need or mandate to change it to "9 and 11" (keeping in mind the greater than two words exception), and it is best left alone. Hertz1888 (talk) 07:51, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Both practices can be followed. Typically with both numbers being on the small side, in ordinary prose it may be more usual to spell them both out, rather than using digits. Also note in the spirit of WP:RETAIN, where valid variations exist, general practice is to leave the existing variation in place, rather than alter them. Isaac Lin (talk) 07:47, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. Got it. So numerals should not be used to start a sentence (got it). And instead of saying nine and 11, we should say 9 and 11. Right? But that seems to be preferred over nine and eleven, right?--Numbersnow (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
Of course. Thanks. Can you tell User:Closedmouth, as he is reverting me on precisely that change? Tx.
Question -- wp:retain speaks about varieties of the english language where wikipedia does not have a preference. this is different -- it is not a variety, but usage, and wikipedia does indicate as i read it that As a general rule, in the body of an article, single-digit whole numbers from zero to nine are spelled out in words; numbers greater than nine are commonly rendered in numerals (though it does allow that under certain circumstances one may write twelve instead of 12, that is not the "general rule" and does not seem therefore to be preferred; quite the opposite). So isn't it ok, not at the head of the sentence, for me to change "tom hit twelve home runs" to "tom hit 12 home runs?" Thanks for your input.--Numbersnow (talk) 08:02, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- The spirit behind WP:RETAIN is to avoid having editors go back and forth between two valid forms ad nauseum. Your sample sentence doesn't make it clear if there is a parallel clause with another number. Note the historical intent behind the rule of writing out a number versus using digits is that writing it out is preferred, but the digits are easier to read for larger numbers. (The rule learned by many is to spell out numbers less than a hundred.) If there are two numbers in the text that parallel each other, then as I stated, with both numbers being relatively small, the more common practice in everyday usage would be to spell out the numbers. Isaac Lin (talk) 08:19, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I was just reading the words, and they seemed to relate to different forms of English (as in British vs. US). And I couldn't find the rule about "both numbers being relatively small [nor what "small" might mean in that context]" in the rule -- but instead found what appears to be a preference (the general rule language) for the number eleven to be written out. For me, numerals are generally easier to read than the words, and shorter saves space, and in sports articles they tend to be the choice of presentation. A separate question -- are there special rules for sports like baseball? So if I want to write, "In a 1-0 win, Jones struck out 11 while giving up 9 hits and brought his ERA for the season under 4 while averaging under 10 hits per 9 innings pitched" ... do some of those numerals have to be written out?--Numbersnow (talk) 08:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Regarding numerals in times of day, this section tells us, "The numerical elements of dates and times are not normally spelled out..." Could you, perhaps, pass this reference along to the editor who is objecting? Hertz1888 (talk) 08:45, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I was just reading the words, and they seemed to relate to different forms of English (as in British vs. US). And I couldn't find the rule about "both numbers being relatively small [nor what "small" might mean in that context]" in the rule -- but instead found what appears to be a preference (the general rule language) for the number eleven to be written out. For me, numerals are generally easier to read than the words, and shorter saves space, and in sports articles they tend to be the choice of presentation. A separate question -- are there special rules for sports like baseball? So if I want to write, "In a 1-0 win, Jones struck out 11 while giving up 9 hits and brought his ERA for the season under 4 while averaging under 10 hits per 9 innings pitched" ... do some of those numerals have to be written out?--Numbersnow (talk) 08:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
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<tommy> (talk) 13:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
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