OA17151104

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Hello, OA17151104, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, visit the Teahouse, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:19, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Jim. Please understand that I am brand new to this. Also please understand that the references are not the way I wanted--I wanted them to be more granular--but I don't know (being new) how to do references in this system. Help would be welcome. Right now, I am a bit baffled by how to do things here. As for COI, I am a volunteer at the museum at Camp Manatoc. I am not sure how that is a conflict. I am trying to learn more of the local history having relocated to the Akron area a year ago. I hoped there would be a Wiki page that would help. When there wasn't one, I thought I would try to make one. Being retired, it seemed like a good activity. I have written thousands of pages (really!) of technical documentation during my software career. This first step was me trying to figure out what I was doing in a new system. I had developed a first draft outside of Wikipedia, which I pasted in. I see there are reservations about the Weyrick books. He actually wrote 5 volumes. They are the primary source of info on the camp, council, and Karl Butler. Thanks for any help! Warren OA17151104 (talk) 16:01, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that you don't have a significant COI. Please have a look at the discussion on my talk page regarding this topic. I'm minded to restore the draft for improvement, but I'll post some guidance here later today before I do that. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Jim, for the helpful and constructive feedback! I will work on it today. Your feedback is much appreciated! Warren OA17151104 (talk) 11:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

More

When you write about a person,

• you must provide independent verifiable sources to enable us to verify the facts and show that they meet the notability guidelines. Sources that are not acceptable include those linked to the person or an associated organisation, press releases, YouTube, IMDB, social media and other sites that can be self-edited, blogs, websites of unknown or non-reliable provenance, and sites that are just reporting what the person claims or interviewing them. Note that references should be in-line so we can tell what fact each is supporting, and should not be bare urls.

• Everything you write should have an in-line reference to verify it. The Weyrick books will do, but you need to give the books' isbns, the relevant page number(s) to confirm your claims, and format as publications. As per the discussion on my talk, it will help if you can find other sources such as newspaper coverage.

• You must write in a non-promotional tone. Articles must be neutral and encyclopaedic, with verifiable facts, not opinions or reviews.

• Your text isn't dreadful, but claims like He was a successful businessman... are opinions.

• There shouldn't be any url links in the article, only in the "References" or "External links" sections.

• You must not copy text from elsewhere. Copyrighted text is not allowed in Wikipedia, as outlined in this policy. That applies even to pages created by you or your organisation, unless they state clearly and explicitly that the text is public domain. We require that text posted here can be used, modified and distributed for any purpose, including commercial; text is considered to be copyright unless explicitly stated otherwise. There are ways to donate copyrighted text to Wikipedia, as described here; please note that simply asserting on the talk page that you are the owner of the copyright, or you have permission to use the text, isn't sufficient.

• Your text contains unreferenced quotations, which are copyright violations, you must give the attribution.

• You had no wikilinks, eg Akron, Ohio, Boy Scouts of America, Goodyear

Have a look at Emma Louisa Turner. You don't need anything as extensive or detailed as that, but it will show how references should appear in the text, the "References" section, and the "Cited texts".

@Tavantius: has made constructive comments on my talk page too. I've restored the draft at Draft:H Karl Butler Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again, Jim! I have entered a new draft. I think you will agree that it is better than the first draft. Again, I appreciate your help, and thanks in advance for any more constructive feedback. Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 20:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't know what you are up to. I restored the draft at Draft:H Karl Butler, but you seem to have created a new on at the bizzare title Template:EngvarB/sandbox. It will have to be deleted, but I'll hold off for a bit so you can transfer your references to the coreectly named page Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:31, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Jim, I am not "up to" anything. I am trying to figure out how to work in this system. It was not obvious to me how to edit the old version. I went into the playpen, started using the article you referred me to as a model, and tried to adapt my draft. I don't know how to set the name. I think I have references figured out now. You can correct me if I am wrong. Then I hit publish. I will see if I can figure out how to access and update the old one later today. Thanks, and sorry if I am not doing this right. It's my first time. Warren OA17151104 (talk) 10:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

OK, sorry if I was a bit brusque. The article must be at Draft:H Karl Butler. All you need to do is to copy your references, which look OK, across to the equivalent place in that version, I have't changed the text much. When you have done that, let me know, and if it hasn't been reviewed by then, it will have a decent chance of being accepted. I'll then deleted the Template version, since it's not a template. Incidentally, I won't necessarily know you have posted here unless you start the message with my user name User:Jimfbleak and sign your post in the same edit. I'm only seeing these messages because I'm interested in the topic and keep comong back to check Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

In fact, I'll just move your version Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:56, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

OK, your book refs need to be formatted as such and include isbns. Your other refs need the publisher of the page added eg Scouting America Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Jimfbleak Thanks, Jim! I appreciate your help and guidance. I have lots of experience with markup languages and systems, just not this markup language and system. I will work on it a bit later. Those Weyrick books are self-published. Unfortunately, there are no ISBNs. The author is the local authority on the history, and he has done a ton of research, but his work being so esoteric would likely not be of interest to a "real" publisher. Thanks again for helping me with this! Karl Butler was an amazing man who accomplished a lot overcoming severe handicaps. I am happy to get his story in a prominent place like Wikipedia. 204.156.199.194 (talk) 12:52, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Jimfbleak

Thanks again, Jim, for your help. Please see if the references are correctly formatted now.

Warren

OA17151104 (talk) 16:26, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

That looks better now, just need to wait for a reviewer to pick it up now. If you were trying to ping me, you need to link to my username, User:Jimfbleak or ping me with {{ping|Jimfbleak}} (as you see it now}}, either way you should see a link, not just text Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jimfbleak: Thanks, Jim! Sorry I was so slow in figuring some of this out. I also keep forgetting to thank you for adding the picture of the stone memorial in the camp. I assumed (incorrectly I see now) that you are a reviewer. Out of curiosity--you mentioned being interested in my post--what is it about this post that piqued your interest? Whatever the reason, I appreciate your help and guidance! Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 11:14, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Although I could, I rarely review drafts, and my involvement in this would make it problematic anyway. I've never been a scout, but my girls were both involved when younger in the UK female equivalent, and I have some awareness of the origins of scouting here, just interested in seeing some of the early days of scouting in the US. If you could find a decent photograph of him, it might well be out of copyright and usable here Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jimfbleak: Thanks, Jim. I am recovering from covid, so I can't go to the museum this weekend, but I will eventually get a picture of him from there or from Weyrick. There is at least one good head shot, but I think I would prefer a photo that more clearly shows the handicaps with which that poor man had to contend. Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 15:52, 27 September 2024 (UTC)