Orthohawk
Welcome!
edit
|
The Persecutor
editPlease do not add that Sergei Kourdakov was an Orthodox Christian without true evidence. Having a funeral procession held at a Russian Orthodox church does not mean in every single case that a person is definitely Russian Orthodox. Kourdakov in fact had two funeral services: one by a Presbyterian minister and one by an Orthodox one. I have previously reverted your edits over the same material on Sergei Kourdakov's article as well. Sorafune +1 21:27, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
- It simply doesn't matter, because Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. You would have to have a reliable source that actually says that Sergei Kourdakov converted to Orthodox Christianity. Sorafune +1 02:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
- Sergei became an Orthodox Christian. This is stated in an interview printed in The Orthodox Word #59 (Nov-Dec 1974).
- So let me get this straight. Sergei joins the evangelical group Underground Evangelism shortly after his September 1971 defection to North America. From that time to the point of his death, he is a well recognized figure in Underground Evangelism, traveling across the country making speeches while writing his book. Then nearly two years after his death on January 1, 1973, some Orthodox father comes out and claims that Kourdakov told him personally that he was a Orthodox Christian. First of all, that goes against your initial claim that he was an Orthodox Christian based on his Russian Orthodox funeral, since it was "revealed" that he was an Orthodox Christian nearly two years after his death. But second of all and most importantly, I believe the entire claim that he was an Orthodox Christian is untrue. Ok, so Sergei told him personally that he was an Orthodox Christian. When did he have time to convert? He was in North America for only 16 months. Before that he was an atheist. If he was a Orthodox Christian, why didn't he reveal it publicly? Why did he continue to serve under Underground Evangelism? Why didn't he say anything about it in his autobiography? Why don't any sources like The New Yorker or the Los Angeles Times say that he was an Orthodox Christian? Why did Sergius Shukin reveal nearly two years after his death that he actually was a Orthodox Christian? Why haven't other people come out to say that he wasn't an Evangelical Christian? He had personal conversations with many notable individuals, and wouldn't he have mentioned such an important fact? I didn't want to say this before because it would have been rude, but my other reason for refuting this claim is because it's complete nonsense. It doesn't fit anywhere in his 16 month timeline of living in North America. It doesn't make sense that he would only tell one person and that person would only tell the rest of the world 22 months after his death. If we're going to trust your link as a reliable source (note that the content is hosted on a web design service company), then the most we can include about Orthodox Christianity in Sergei Kourdakov's article is that Sergius Shukin claimed that Kourdakov converted to Orthodox Christianity nearly two years after his death. That's the most the source can be reliable for, considering the immense amount of sources that counter the claim. Sorafune +1 03:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
- Sergei became an Orthodox Christian. This is stated in an interview printed in The Orthodox Word #59 (Nov-Dec 1974).
I don't really give a rat's behind what you "believe"....you've obviously got some kind of agenda. Why didn't he say it? well, maybe you should ask the *Evangelical Christian* publishers of his autobiography! You don't think it's possible that this little tidbit was deliberately left out as it would be "bad for business" for them?? Immense amount???? Are you kidding me??????? There is no more evidence of his remaining an Evie than of his conversion to the ROC. And as to the NY'er and the LAT, the western press is notorious for its ignorance of Eastern Orthodoxy. There is a great deal of misinformation about Orthodoxy in the West. Apparently, you suffer from the same malady (or is it just indifference?). I wonder how his life story would have turned out if he had been placed with an Orthodox family rather than one that follows 500 year old heresies.
- I'm not making my arguments based on any sort of agenda. I'm making them based on logic and verifiability. So Kourdakov's supposed conversion is not in his autobiography. Maybe you're right; it was published after his death. But before he died he made public appearances. He made speeches. He traveled the country up until he died. If in that entire time he never publicly affiliated himself with the Orthodox Church, and portrayed himself as an Evangelical Christian, and worked strictly with Underground Evanglism, then how can we say that he was a Russian Orthodox Christian? If I lived in that time period, I could have published a newspaper claiming that Kourdakov himself told me he he became a Christian Scientist or Scientologist, and I'd have must as much of a claim as to what Kourdakov's religion was as Sergius Shukin has. In fact, If I wanted to make more people believe me and have a more convincing claim to his religion, I would have published my "interview" with him before his death, or shortly after. Not 22 whole months later. "There is a great deal of misinformation about Orthodoxy in the West." This claim just doesn't matter here because the question is whether or not Kourdakov was an Orthodox Christian. You don't need to be a master of Orthodoxism to answer a yes or no question. If you think the New Yorker or the LA Times are bad sources, I highly recommend you make your argument on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Let them decide. As for the argument in general, I added that Sergius Shukin claimed he became an Orthodox Christian at the end of Sergei Kourdakov#Subsequent controversy. But I won't allow the claim to be treated as truth in the article because it would be a clear violation of WP:V. It actually looks like you're the one with the agenda: your belief that Evangelicalism "follows 500 year old heresies" makes you look very biased. I will now cease arguing with you because my points don't seem to be getting through to you. If you still don't believe in verifiability and think the entire article should adhere to the claim of some little-known priest, then please direct your argument to WP:AN or some other higher authoritative group. Sorafune +1 18:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I have an email to your "source" (the guy who posted Sergei's entry on the "find-a-grave" site) and have asked him where he got his information. We'll see what's what when i get his reply.
Question for you: I see in your bio you were born in Romania; did you "get saved" out of the Orthodox Church?
Evi-ism IS full of heresies, some 500 years old, some 1000, some even older, but heresies nonetheless. Not to mention contradictions.
- Picking off sources one at a time now, are you? Good luck with those major magazine and newspaper sources. And good luck with that email; I send an email to the same guy, Ronzoni, a few months ago asking about an image he uploaded and haven't received any form of reply. I don't appreciate you trying to attribute my position on this argument to my personal life, but in either case I left Romania when I was five. I know almost nothing of the Orthodox church. And I couldn't care less about what you think are heresies. But as for the source, I think I made a mistake when I initially included it in the article, since it's a source that technically anyone can edit. I only ended up keeping it afterward because I couldn't find another source that gives Kourdakov's exact birth and burial locations. Rest assured however, I have replaced the Find-a-Grave source in places regarding Kourdakov's religion with a newspaper article and a book source. Maybe that's where Ronzoni got his information. Sorafune +1 23:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, that's all fine and dandy but how about sources from the time that article was published up to Sergei's death? You ignore sources that give evidence that he did something you don't like. You're as bad as you accuse me of being!
- The second source was published 20 years after his death. Sorafune +1 00:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
talking about what time in his life?
The article Kings Reverse has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Non notable game - no sources seem to exist. The only mention I can find just lists it as a variant of Crazy Eights, and it's some website from the 90s.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 23:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)