Othelllo

December 2015

Hello, I'm General Ization. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Imhotep, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. General Ization ^Talk 19:45, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Europe

Hallo, I reverted your edit about the borders of Europe for Herodotus, since their description is wrong. As you can see reading him, for Herodotus Asia does not coincide with Persia, but he starts the description of Asia's borders starting from Persia and going westwards. A similar problem concerns your definition of Africa, which Herodotus names Libya, and as such has nothing to do with modern Libya, which is a name resurrected by Italian geographers of 1900s to define their new colony. Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 17:55, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

My response:

I'll post your comments in quotes and then address them without.

"Hallo, I reverted your edit about the borders of Europe for Herodotus, since their description is wrong."

That is not what Herodotus said; he stated in a few places in The Histories consistent with what the Yale historian and scholar, Nell Irvin Painter, (et al.) said, "Europe is Greek" and it's "wherever Greeks lived," extending from Greece to the eastern part of what is now eastern to southern Italy. I have the book (The Histories) in front of me, so I don't need to cite another source. In book 4, paragraph 45, Herodotus talks about the origin of the naming of the continents that is Europe, Asia, and Libya (4:45).

Although, I beg you to read it (i.e. The Histories) in context, not in a part and then extrapolate. What are the continents of Europe, Asia, and Libya according to Herodotus (in antiquities)? Food for thought:

- Asia described "as running Asia Minor (western Modern Turkey) and the East Bank of the Nile in the West to India in the E" (See The Histories, Herodotus (Holland, 2013), p. 757).

- Libya described as "equal in size to Europe and Asia, with the East border the Nile's West Bank" (See The Histories, Herodotus (Holland, 2013), p. 796). This means that it is on the continent of Africa if it's west of the Nile because the Nile is east Africa.

- Europe described as in 4:45: "It is evident enough, however, that Europa came from Asia, and never made it to the expanse of land which the Greeks nowadays call Europe, but only Phoenicia (modern Tyre, Lebanon, Syria, Israel) to Crete (still Crete)." As Painter pointed out and still holds true, Europe was wherever the Greeks lived.

"As you can see reading him, for Herodotus Asia does not coincide with Persia, but he starts the description of Asia's borders starting from Persia and going westwards. A similar problem concerns your definition of Africa, which Herodotus names Libya, and as such has nothing to do with modern Libya, which is a name resurrected by Italian geographers of 1900s to define their new colony."

Ancient Libya is northern Africa (actually, if you read from a variety of sources, it was a large region that encompassed parts of Egypt). Africans had different names in antiquity - Ethiopian, Libyan, Egyptian, Phoenician, Berber, Lydian, Tyrrhenian, Colchian, etc. Some of which, as you know, are language groups not actually people. You are mistaken. Herodotus's Asia, when you apply the facts that I cite from Painter (2010) and Davies (1996), is clear; Greece is west of Turkey and northwest of Crete (accessible). The Italian geographers that you have not named yet cited are intentionally mistaken. I cite various scholars who are diverse in every way and agree independently. Herodotus was born in Turkey and is a direct witness. Painter (a woman) was born in the United States. Davies was born in Poland. Aside from scholarship, no other connection. User:Othelllo (talk) 16:29, 29 May 2016 (UTC)