User talk:PRRfan/Archive 5

Belated best wishes for a happy 2018

^{The Fox Hunt (1893) by Winslow Homer, Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts.}

Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place.

== BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 15:12, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Monuments Men?

I'm not sure I know what an unofficial proper name is, but tell me why you think it is one. The Monuments Men was the title of a book and movie, and the Monuments, Fine Arts, and Archives program members were some sometimes referred to as Monuments men with Monuments capped as the short name for that program, but I don't see much in sources with Men capped, or at least not until they're copying the book or movie title. Dicklyon (talk) 05:30, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Ha, fair point; perhaps I should have said simply "nickname," like the Bronx Bombers, Screaming Eagles, or Devil Dogs. Anyway, I found a few uses of capped MM pre-2009, and many since. I think you're right that there was less consensus on the capitalization of the nickname before Edsel's book (here's a book that uses Mm), but the tide seems definitely to have turned in favor of MM. (National Park Service, Architect of the Capitol, US Mint). Why not follow suit? 02:27, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

OK, so let's not be pretending it's a proper name just because people tend to ape the name of the book/movie. I'll downcase it again. Dicklyon (talk) 05:48, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Not sure how you think language changes, but that's fine. PRRfan (talk) 12:26, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Interestingly, consensus seems to have settled on uppercase.[1][2] PRRfan (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:3RR

There is a firm policy that limits reversions on a single page to 3 times within a 24 hour period (WP:3RR). The policy contains no 'my version is better' exception. You have now reverted 4 times in under 4 hours. Four hours is appreciably less time than 24 hours. Agricolae (talk) 00:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

You first reverted 3 and a half hours ago - how is three and a half hours not a reasonable amount of time to defend your choice on the Talk page? Agricolae (talk) 00:24, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Actually, the relevant practice here is, in fact, BRD: You made a Bold edit, I Reverted it, and now we Discuss. It's not "You make a Bold edit, I Revert it, you Decide that discussion is unnecessary." As for time, how is three and a half hours not a rather brisk, not to mention completely arbitrary, deadline for discussion? And what's your rush? Your concerns are noted; I will respond when I get a moment. PRRfan (talk) 00:40, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Actually, you didn't read WP:3RR closely enough. Where it lists allowable reasons to revert more than 3 times in 24 hours, WP:BRD is not one of them. And I'm the one in the rush? What's your hurry? Your revert (the first one, let alone the fourth) couldn't have waited until you actually had the time to defend it? (assuming you ever had any intention of doing so rather than just using BRD as a way of fobbing me off, as appears to be the case). And since we are talking about WP:BRD, it's funny what you find when you read the whole thing: "BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than once. . . . The first person to start a discussion is the person who is best following BRD." Didn't see that part, eh? Agricolae (talk) 07:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Looks like technically a 3RR violation, but Agricolae, it's really your fault for repeatedly removing 9 KB and refusing to take it the talk page when challenged. Please do that, and a consensus may emerge. Dicklyon (talk) 03:27, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Dicklyon, WP:3RR is a hard rule - if you revert more than 3 times, you have violated it. Full stop. It has no 'but the mean girls made me do it' exception that makes anyone else at fault other than the person who violated the rule. Likewise, you might want to refresh your memory with another look at the Talk page in question, and note in particular who has, and who has not, said something there. Agricolae (talk) 07:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

No points for doing the right thing after you've had to be reminded three times, Agricolae. Shall we all take a deep cleansing breath, assume good faith, and work to seek a consensus? PRRfan (talk) 16:40, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

As opposed to you not doing the right thing, even after four reverts? Yeah, that gives you the moral high ground. Why should I assume good faith when you choose to spend your supposedly-limited and valuable time pontificating here about how I should behave differently, yet claim you don't have time to discuss the actual content? Agricolae (talk) 17:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Question

On USS Princeton (CG-59), can you clarify what "the tactically "fake" U.S. Marine and Invasion forces afloat" means? ("tactically "fake" was later changed to "decoy"). If you could also provide a source, that would be helpful as well. Thanks - wolf 21:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Wow, I have no idea. (It wasn't my edit.) I suppose the editor was trying to say that the purported invasion force was largely a deception and a diversion from the real lines of effort. PRRfan (talk) 22:16, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

FYI

You can list all your talk page archives in a single search box, instead of four different boxes, using this markup;

Cheers - wolf 22:22, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Done; thanks! PRRfan (talk) 23:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

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Your recent edits to the Satterlee General Hospital article

Hi, PRRfan. Just wanted to give you a heads up that your most recent edits (moving content around to create a better chronological error) just created a significant error in the accuracy of the Satterlee General Hospital article. Rather than reverting your changes entirely (because I believe several have merit), I'm writing to ask that you fix the error. The Catholic Historical Research Center page that I had added as a citation notes that, "Satterlee Hospital became a self-contained city when a tent city was built on the grounds in 1863" - and not 1864 as you wrote in your recent changes. Also, while I sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm for Satterlee General Hospital (and note that you have made one edit to the article in 2007, one in 2008, and one in 2013 and two in 2010), I ask that you refrain from making such sweeping changes moving forward. I have been working hard over the last several weeks to research Satterlee in order to further upgrade this article because this article is important not just to the two of us (because we both enjoy reading and writing about Pennsylvania's history), but to students in Pennsylvania's schools who are currently studying Pennsylvania's role the Civil War. Thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation. Kind Regards. 47thPennVols (talk) 19:37, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi, 47th! Sorry about introducing that error. Because the list of things in the "self-contained city" was drawn from the text on the 1864 lithograph, I assumed — whoops — that the "self-contained city" line was also in reference to 1864. I'll fix that straightaway. PRRfan (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much for fixing that error, PRRfan. Just as a bit of clarification to your message above, "the list of things in the 'self-contained city'" that I added was actually not "drawn from the text on the 1864 lithograph." That list came from other sources that I've added to the article, including the Catholic Historical Research Center resource. Also, just as another heads up, by moving things around as you've been doing, you have inadvertently been injecting formatting errors into this article because you've been moving items in such a way that paragraphs that had citations no longer do. In addition to undoing my work to ensure that each paragraph has at least one citation, your edits are putting this article at risk for future tagging of these paragraphs by other Wikipedians as "unreferenced" or the tagging of the entire article as "needing more citations," which can make the article appear to be an untrustworthy source to teachers, students and others wanting to cite this article in their research publications. So, again, I ask that you refrain from making such sweeping changes moving forward (and would appreciate it if you could be more careful with the edits you do make because, as I stated above, I've been researching and editing this article with the intent of improving its usability as a reference for Pennsylvania K-12 and higher ed students). Thanks for your cooperation. 47thPennVols (talk) 20:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

You got it. Sorry for the inconvenience! PRRfan (talk) 20:22, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

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WP:NOR

Maybe I missed it. When did the prohibition against Original Research cease to be a policy? Agricolae 01:31, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Answered at Talk:Enoch White Clark#Improvement tags. PRRfan (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

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Blue laser

Hello PRRfan, happy 2020s! Would you be willing to re-copyedit this edit from a decade ago—it relies mostly on a IEEE Spectrum citation possibly talking about developments originally undertaken in Poland (mentioned several times in the added text). —Sladen (talk) 11:42, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi, @Sladen:, and happy new year to you as well! I'd be happy to revisit the piece, but I'm not quite sure what you want me to do here. Can you please clarify? PRRfan (talk) 14:50, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Copyedits

Hi, thanks for making copyedits to Grand Central Terminal art; your wording is almost always less awkward than mine! I do want to ask, I saw you've found some sources and added some to it, that's great! Are there any changes you've made to the facts stated? I did notice you changed 1940s to 1920s, which most sources don't seem to clarify. Yours does well and is pretty convincing. I got my date from here, which isn't as precise, but doesn't seem to state it's that old of a problem. I wish an older source could be found.

Another thing is that you're overdoing the inline citations, for instance the third paragraph of the "Ceiling' section has four sentences in a row citing [33]. In cases of two or more adjacent sentences from the same source, please just cite the end of the text cited there! It really makes for a cleaner look, see WP:CITEDENSE. Thanks again for your help so far. ɱ (talk) 02:17, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Ɱ, and thanks! And thanks for all your good work on this article and of course the GCT article itself. Basically, what I was trying to do with this particular edit was start the section with a quick description of the current ceiling, and then explain a bit more clearly how it got that way. I don't think I changed/added any facts except to note that the water damage began in the 1920s, which I got from the untappedcities article. And oops, you're totally right about the inline citations. I like to keep each fact cited as I move stuff around, and then strip out the needless cites at the end, but failed to do so here. So I've fixed that now, I think. Thanks! PRRfan (talk) 03:23, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, and yeah I agree, the section's order is a lot better now! ɱ (talk) 05:20, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

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Lattice Semiconductor

Hi! Reaching out because I saw that you've done some work on Lattice Semiconductor in the past. I've posted a few COI edit requests at Talk:Lattice Semiconductor. If you have some time and are up for taking a look, I'd appreciate any help or feedback. Thank you! Mary Gaulke (talk) 18:20, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

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Whitehall

I think your latest formulation is much better. In practice, there were very few places that could be characterized as plantations that didn't have some form of enslaved workforce, so we don't need to overdo it, nor should we ignore it. Acroterion (talk) 04:41, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, and I agree with your approach. Just to unpack this a bit, I think that an article about a "plantation" should have an early and explicit statement that what's being described is a farm whose owners enslaved people and profiting from their forced labor. PRRfan (talk) 19:42, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Tell us about your experiences editing Wikipedia!

Hi PRRfan!

I am conducting an interview study about how Wikipedia editors collaborate in the English edition of Wikipedia. The project description is on the WMF meta wiki: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Characterizing_Collaboration_Models_in_the_EN,_FR_and_ES_Language_Editions_of_Wikipedia.

This research study is part of a larger project where we are trying to understand how editors collaborate in different language editions of Wikipedia. I was looking through our team’s prior dataset and came across conversations that you have had on the A Very Merry Unauthorized Children's Scientology Pageant article talk page. I am interested in learning more about those conversations.

Would you be willing to participate in a 1 hour interview about your experience? The interview will take place virtually over Skype, Hangout, Zoom or phone.

Our research team will make our best efforts to keep your participation confidential. Participation in our study is voluntary. If you are willing to participate in this interview, or if you have additional questions please email me. Or, if you are concerned about direct email you can contact me through Wikipedia’s mail feature.

If you are interested or have any other questions, please let us know.

via Email: tbipat@uw.edu or English Wikipedia: tbipat

Tbipat (talk) 22:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

@Tbipat:: I'm flattered that you're interested. I had entirely forgotten that conversation (from 2007) but upon reviewing it, I'm struck by its cordiality, which is sadly less common than it ought to be. Still, I can't recall anything about those conversations that's not in the page's archives, so I must decline to participate further. Best of luck in your project. PRRfan (talk) 03:30, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

@PRRFan:: Hi! Thanks for your quick response. No worries, I am also interested in learning about some of your more recent talk page conversations! If you are interested, please let me know. Thanks again! Tbipat (talk) 19:00, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

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Happy New Year!

Walter Elmer Schofield, Across the River (1904), Carnegie Museum of Art.		Best wishes for a safe, healthy and prosperous 2021.
		Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place. BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 13:34, 26 December 2020 (UTC) Oneupsmanship: This painting turned the friendly rivalry between Edward Redfield and Elmer Schofield into a feud. Schofield was a frequent houseguest at Redfield's farm, upstream from New Hope, Pennsylvania, and the two would go out painting together, competing to capture the better view. Redfield served on the jury for the 1904 Annual Exhibition of the Carnegie Institute; at which, despite Redfield's opposition, Across the River was awarded the Gold Medal and $1,500 prize. It was not until a 1963 interview that the 93-year-old Redfield revealed the painting as the cause of the 40-year feud between them. Schofield may have painted it in England, but a blindsided Redfield knew that it was a view of the Delaware River, from his own front yard!

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Changes to Evalyn France

Hi! I'm curious on your removal of sections 'Early life' and 'Career' on Evalyn France. Is there some sort of guideline on not having those sections for less information? I personally think it is easier to read with the sections. Thanks for the changes btw!! Cheers, Engineerchange (talk) 17:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Engineerchange. For short articles with really short sections, I think it simply makes sense not to have the big headers, particularly if removing them still leaves all the facts in chronological order. But I don't have any stronger argument against them, and I don't know of any guidance about how much text justifies a Header 1. So if you'd like to restore them, go ahead. Cheers! PRRfan (talk) 18:39, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@PRRfan: Thanks for the response! Yeah, I'm on the edge about it sometimes too. I added back the headers per your feedback. --Engineerchange (talk) 19:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@PRRfan: Saw the recent change, and I do think the readability is pretty odd with 8 separate paragraph chunks. I guess there's no specific policy for style here, but I do think it'd read better as lede and then a Biography header, at least. I tend to want to jump to sections, which is why I try to give a minimum 'Early life', 'Career', 'Death' sectioning (if there is content for each) so there's a clearer grouping of content. Curious on your thoughts, though. Cheers --Engineerchange (talk) 04:22, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

D'oh! I'm sorry, Engineerchange; I'd forgotten we'd talked about this. I'm going to revert my last. PRRfan (talk) 06:34, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Lol, happens to the best of us. Thanks for understanding. Cheers --Engineerchange (talk) 15:10, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Barnstar - Railroaders Memorial Museum

		The Editor's Barnstar
		For your dedicated, extensive, and instructive editing of the Railroaders Memorial Museum page. Public Thing (talk) 16:37, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Public Thing! You've been doing the heavy work; keep it up! PRRfan (talk) 17:37, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Henry Ruggs III

I thought you might want to know Ruggs crashed into a prius not a Rav4. That's the main reason why the car burst into flames because of the lithium batteries are the rear of a prius. 71.38.215.189 (talk) 10:01, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

The various cited sources say Rav4, e.g. this one. Do you have a source saying it was a Prius? PRRfan (talk) 16:16, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar

Thank you for your help on Francis Pharcellus Church-- your copyediting was invaluable in catching the (number) of errors my rushed editing made, not to mention the great content you found, specifically (though not exclusively) by tracking down Bigelow-- great find! The article would not look near as good without your help, and I'm excited to see the article grace the main page come Christmas! As Church himself wrote; "Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world." I like to think that collaboration is one of those overlooked wonders. Happy holidays and I wish you all the best in the year to come! Eddie891 Talk Work 22:50, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Eddie891! Just happy to help; I think this might be my first DYK. PRRfan (talk) 14:44, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Francis Pharcellus Church

On 25 December 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Francis Pharcellus Church, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in 1897, Francis Pharcellus Church wrote "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Francis Pharcellus Church. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Francis Pharcellus Church), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

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Precious

railroad bios

Thank you for quality articles such as Herman J. Lombaert and Henry J. Reilly, for beginning articles about historic places such as Strivers' Section Historic District, for quality copy-editing and adding to content on the way as for Francis Pharcellus Church, for your first DYK in 15 years of service, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

You are recipient no. 2686 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:07, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Why, thank you, Gerda Arendt! PRRfan (talk) 03:50, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

A somewhat premature New Year's greeting

John Vanderlyn, Ariadne Asleep on the Island of Naxos (c.1812), Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts		Best wishes for a safe, healthy and prosperous 2022.
		Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place. BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 20:35, 26 December 2021 (UTC) Moral lesson: John Vanderlyn was an American painter who studied in Paris, and his life-sized Ariadne Asleep on the Island of Naxos was one of the first large nudes exhibited in the United States. Peddling the poison as well as the cure, this overtly sensuous work was presented to the public as a moral lesson on the consequences of lascivious behavior. Visible in the distance is the ship of Princess Ariadne's secret lover, Theseus, for whom she has betrayed her people by helping him to escape the Labyrinth and slay the Minotaur. Ariadne's bliss will come to an end when she awakens from her post-coital reverie, only to discover that the faithless Theseus has sailed away without her.

Thanks, BoringHistoryGuy! PRRfan (talk) 03:50, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

LHP

It's interesting to read the self-published history of LHP alongside more objective sources. Their shmarmy pseudo-history really makes my skin crawl. Like most articles, it starts with a pro-school bias because 1. people like their schools and 2. the readily available sources, such as newspapers, didn't like to make waves with parents who might be their advertisers and were owned and run by white people. From reading many sources, apparently the private JC became unviable after Valencia College opened, so they converted their all-white JC to an all-white grade school. Thanks for your work on this! Jacona (talk) 17:11, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of GovExec for deletion

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Norfolk and Western 611

Can you please help me do some grammar work on the Norfolk and Western 611 page? Trains13 (talk) 11:57, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Southern Railway 1401

I've recently done a lot of clean-up and copy-edit on the Southern Railway 1401 page. Maybe you can rectify my work? Trains13 (talk) 19:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi

Appreciate your efforts at cordiality. While I disagree with your position on the unsourced portion on a matter of principle (whatever, it'll get citogenesised into reliable sources eventually), I just wanted to say your efforts in sourcing new content were appreciated. My whole point in that was to remove an unsourced section but you arrived and improved the article (even if full resolution was not achieved). Keep up the good work and I hope to disagree with you elsewhere; it seems to result in some rather nice additions. ~ Pbritti (talk) 06:09, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, PRRfan. Thank you for creating The Chevy Chase Land Company. User:SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Thanks for the article!

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, PRRfan. Thank you for your work on John Clagett Proctor. User:Onel5969, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Nice article, you should create a lead section. Also, when citing stuff from Newspapers.com, you should clip the article in question. That makes it easier for researchers to view the document, as well as those who do not have a subscription to Newspapers.

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Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:54, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@Onel5969: Huh, I didn't realize that clipping brought Newspapers.com stuff outside the paywall. Thanks! PRRfan (talk) 15:10, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

I've been using it for years, and did not realize it until a few months ago, when another editor pointed it out to me. Keep up the good work. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 15:11, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 7

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Precious anniversary

Precious

One year!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 25 December 2022 (UTC)