User talk:Pagrashtak/archive7

Iridion 3D FAC

I've followed up on suggestions for the article, and I was hoping you could take another look and either change or hold your opinion of the newer version. Sincerily, David Füchs ^{(talk / frog blast the vent core!)} 00:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Replied at the FAC. Pagrashtak 03:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Tulsa, OK FA Nomination

I would definently love your help. There are currently only 2 of us regurally contributing to this article - so yes, the ref issues with this article need to be adressed and I would do nothing short of beg you to help as much as you possibly can so it can be featured! Needless to say, I will be putting some extra time to fix the problems. Okiefromokla•talk 15:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I found a secondary source for the claim that Tulsa is known as the arts and culture center of oklahoma. This article talks about tulsa's culture and arts scenes and the improvment those scenes are undergoing, and at the end of the article, it comes out and says these things have and will continue to strengthen tulsa's status as the art and cultural center of oklahoma. (granted, it was published in the Tulsa World, but to be fair, the newspaper isn't affiliated with the city at all) [1] Let me know what you think of its validity and if it should be used as a secondary source.Okiefromokla•talk 16:43, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not ideal, as the author appears to have some vested interest in Tulsa, but I'd say it's a step up. Pagrashtak 18:00, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course, I understand your concern. SandyGeorgia has the same concers, but I don't see reason to discount this article, as the content of the article shows no obvious signs of bias. Let me exmplain. As I said, in my opinion, the article shows no bias in it of itself - it is merely pointing out positive business trends in the city. The fact that this man manages a hotel in Tulsa is in itself not enough reason to discount the article. As an expert, the author simply evaluates the meaning of real factual events in Tulsa, thereby being a textbook example of a secondary source. The disclaimer from the Tulsa World says: "The column should focus on a business trend; outlook for the city, state or industry; or discuss a topic of interest in a particular area of expertise. Articles should not promote the writer's business or be overtly political." Thereby, this article obviously meets this criteria (or it wouldnt have been published). As the World's disclaimer demands, the author is acting in his capacity as an expert, being a prominent Tulsa businessman himself, and not a person with intrest in the city. The fact that this article was published in the Tulsa World shows that the purpose of the article is not to talk to out-of-towners in an attempt to promote the city, but rather, to talk to locals, displaying expert evaluation on Tulsa business trends, which is the point of these columns as described by the World's disclaimer. In short, The article shows no obvious bias based on its content, and simply because he is a hotel manager shouldn't discount the work, since the point of the work is to discuss tulsa business trends, and prominent local businessmen are certainly the most qualified to do that.Okiefromokla•talk 18:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little less enthusiastic about this one, but I also found this [2]. Under the "Arts and Culture" section the first sentence is what I would be citing. Let me know what you think.Okiefromokla•talk 23:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It's good that it comes from a nation-wide instead of Tulsa-specific source. Pagrashtak 13:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: EGM May '01 Issue

I have a friend who has a huge backlog of EGM issues that span for many years. I'll try to see if he has a copy of it and scan it. —Mitaphane _?|! 01:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks! I don't necessarily need an entire scan; the individual scores and enough information to properly cite would suffice. (page number(s), volume/issue, month and year of issue, article title, listed author if any) Pagrashtak 14:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll just give you the scans in case you want to reference anything else in the article:

• EGM 145 08-01 Review
• EGM 143 06-01 Preview
• EGM 143 06-01 Preview

The contributing editors in the review were Chris Johnston, Mark MacDonald, and John Ricciardi—Mitaphane _?|! 22:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, why did you have to complain about my image...

Why did you put a notice on Image:Lost Title Card.gif image? I mean, seriously, what was the point...There are many other pics with the exact same rationale and I don't see them being complained about. -- SilvaStorm

Well, I tend to check images for proper tags and fair use rationale. I saw that the fair use rationale for this image said it helps to explain the plot of the film, but the image comes from a television show and cannot possibly help a plot explanation. So I tagged it. On a side note, saying that other images use the exact same rationale is not a useful argument. Fair use rationale is article-specific. That is, it should explain why that particular image can be used in one specific article. One could make the argument that identical fair use rationales are thus weaker. Pagrashtak 14:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

commons:Commons talk:Licensing#Free-use legacy tags

I'm interested in you opinion. Alex Spade 08:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that those tags can be and are used incorrectly; I'd like to see {{CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat}} deprecated. It shouldn't be deleted, as there are far too many images using it validly. Pagrashtak 14:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Ages and Seasons

I reverted your move, per the fact that they are different games connected only by plot and mechanics. Both have their own overworld, original mechanics, bosses, dungeons, equipment, etc. - A Link to the Past (talk) 15:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Would you please discuss this at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages? Pagrashtak 18:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you explained why a game which is 100% original besides using the gameplay mechanics of Link's Awakening and connecting to another game's plot is not enough of a game to have its own article. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Sigh. I really have no interest in the quality of the article if someone is actually opposing the inclusion of the most important game mechanic in the game. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

As I stated at the FAC, if you disagree with this, it is an issue to take up with the WikiProject. Since you have no interest anymore, may I proceed with the merge? Pagrashtak 20:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever. Since it seems that the general consensus is to tell people that it uses a certain game's mechanics, but make sure to leave them wondering what the Hell those mechanics are like, I don't care anymore. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Script Edits

Thanks for catching that, that's kind of a problem. I'll alert the script writer. --PresN 15:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

FAC

Hey sorry about the Ages and Seasons FAC. Are you going to try again now that the brew haha about merging is dying down?--Clyde (talk) 01:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll restart before too long. The discussion seems strongly mergist. Pagrashtak 04:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

World of Final Fantasy VIII

Hey. It's been roughly three days since the GA nom, with few changes made (changes that would violate stability would be numerous people reverting to a cruft version, removing sections, etc; none of that). Generally, that's enough to determine stability. — Deckiller 17:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. BTW, I think there's a good chance that the Oracle FAC is going to go smoothly this time. — Deckiller 18:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem—thanks for reminding me to get back to it. I'm optimistic about the FAC, the discussion on the WikiProject talk page seemed to be pretty clear cut. Hopefully I can move on to another article now. By the way, do you know what to do with the interlanguage links in Oracles? I asked in the previous FAC, but no one said anything. Pagrashtak 18:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it's fine to list them all; it seems to be the only accurate way to do it. — Deckiller 18:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I looked briefly to see if I could find anything about grouping by language or subject first, but didn't see anything. It doesn't seem to bother anyone though, so I'll leave it as is. Maybe the other languages will eventually merge also. Pagrashtak 18:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Tech Tower image

Regarding Image:TechTower.jpg; it was one of my first image contributions to Wikipedia/WikiCommons. I've since licensed most all my images as CC:SA. I hope that is acceptable for Featured Article candidates. AUTiger ʃ ^talk/_work 18:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a million

		The Editor's Barnstar
		This here editor's barnstar is well deserved by Pagra, who helped in getting Iridion 3D up to FA status; without your help, I doubt it would have passed. Good show! David Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 00:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Petey Piranha

It appears that your addition of {{unreferenced}} and {{or}} tags to Petey Piranha was reverted (with no edit summary) from the article in just 12 minutes. Apparently your edits did not serve the interest of the "but he deserves his own article because he's a boss" faction arguing against the merger of non-notable characters into List of Mario series enemies (see Reversion of deletions, Someone tell TTN to stop merging, Wart's page was deleted?, Petey's merge..., Proposed split for Waluigi and Petey, and your own Talk:Petey Piranha#Merge. --Kralizec! (talk) 22:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I should also note that when another editor re-added [3] the maintenance tags, they were reverted [4] in 14 minutes by another member of the faction. --Kralizec! (talk) 22:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

In the edit that removed the tags, Henchman 2000 added "according to Mario Superstar Baseball" to the sentence marked as original research. I'm assuming that he mistakenly believed that was the (sole?) reason for the unreferenced tag and removed in it good faith. At this point, I think a request for comment might be in order. If not that, the issue should be brought up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games. Pagrashtak 23:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Super Paper Mario

Just that, I am reducing the white spaces. I don't know what you are talking about as far as line breaks though, because i'm not seeing any problems on my end. TJ Spyke 05:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you seemed to show why reducing white spaces are good. Those big gaping spaces stick out like a sore thumb, and in my experience don't make it easier or harder to edit. Also, I am not seeing those "problems" on my end. TJ Spyke 21:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

FAs

Thanks for the award :) You also earned something from that article:

For elevating several Zelda articles to FA status. — Deckiller 21:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Dude

Check out the new picture for Shen Kuo! Wikimachine is definitely awesome.--PericlesofAthens 02:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Orl Fane

I'm sorry but what right do you have do delete this page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ringwall (talk • contribs).

I didn't delete the page. I redirected it to The Sword of Shannara. According to Wikipedia:Notability (fiction), minor characters should be covered in a list, and major characters could be covered in the main topic. The only situation in which a fictional character gets a separate article is when encyclopedic treatment of the character becomes too long for the main article. The Orl Fane article was not encyclopedic, as it consisted of solely in-universe information, a violation of Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction). Pagrashtak 20:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:VCRonaldNielStuart.jpg

I'll see what I can find. But honestly, that was over 2 years ago :) --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 23:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my talk page. Much appreciated. —dto (talkcontribs) 01:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

San Jose FAR

San Jose has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.--Loodog 03:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)--Loodog 03:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Question and article link

I know you're probably in hibernation mode after writing an FA, but do you think I should do something with References to media in TimeSplitters Future Perfect? It flunks OR, is not prose, is not structured, encyclopedic value is in doubt, and it skims on the line of being Game Guideish. Perhaps redirect and say why, and request only referenced and relevant stuff be added? Or perhaps it is fine as is?--Clyde (talk) 04:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was away presenting a paper at a convention. I don't see much in that article worth saving. Trivia like that is routinely removed from articles. You might go straight to prod, it wouldn't be a very useful redirect. Pagrashtak 16:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Two FACs I'd Like Help With

Hey, I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind going to two FACs for article I have brought up to FA-quality, IMO, recently. These are Voyage: Inspired by Jules Verne and Agatha Christie: And Then There Were None. I'd really appreciate any criticisms or support that you could provide for these two feature article candidates. Thanks. Since you last responded to the Voyage FAC, it has been drastically improved, so any new opinions are always welcome ;) Paaerduag 02:39, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for not getting back to the Voyage FAC yet; I've been away. I know you've put a lot into it, and I'll try to get to it later today. Pagrashtak 16:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Half-Life 2: Episode One

In the coming weeks I am planning to put this article up as a FAC. You made some helpful comments during the peer review and I was wondering whether it would be possible for you to look over the article again for any problems it may still have. Thanks in advance. Qjuad 00:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

For fixing the header level of Postage stamps of Ireland on the WP:FAC page. Cheers ww2censor 19:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Erie's FAC

I have addressed the objections you made concerning images. All images have a fair use rational if they are not in the public domain.--trey 17:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think I got them for real now..--trey 03:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Last template request

I successfully used the #switch paramater on User:You Can't See Me!/UBX/Pokeuber to alter yes, no, but I'm having difficulty with one last part. If the user writes Pokeuber|1, it says "uses ubers." If the user writes Pokeuber|2, it says "doesn't use ubers." In either instance, if the user writes 1 or 2, I want the text "but does not mind using them in battle" to disappear. I tried a usual #if, but it didn't work. Do you know how? hbdragon88 01:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. #ifeq works to remove it from the original template, but I want it gone fro from the 1 and the 2 switch functions... hbdragon88 02:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. In order to use switch with the unnamed parameter (1), you'll have to explicitly define it when calling with 1=1 or 1=2. I'd suggest switching it to a named parameter like use=yes or use=no. Pagrashtak 15:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

3D Monster Maze

IANAL and I am sorry if I used wrong tagging. I believe the copyright holder will gladly change the wording if you say specifically what is required of them (I have no problem mailing Rach any wording you prefer, with clear statement of what this will fix for wikipedia). I tried to find another template for the image, but according to the expansion text it looks I am wrong again :-( if the problem is just using a different template, go ahead and switch to a better tag.

As for the Harvard refs, they do work for me here; it's implemented using generic referencing templates, and if they don't work for you, you should alert the folks over at the relevant template talk pages. I, indeed, prefer the Harvard style references and tried to defend my position over at the Talk:3D Monster Maze#Reference format change. Since it's a relatively stable FA, I'm especially reluctant to change now, but, of course, with compelling arguments and consensus nothing is impossible. --BACbKA 10:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Strange, I'm using Firefox as well: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070310 Iceweasel/2.0.0.3 (Debian-2.0.0.3-1). Maybe you tweaked the WP standard CSS sheets and had something brokent that way? I'll try to ask for GFDL re-release of the image, thanks for a template link. --BACbKA 09:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Postage stamps of Ireland

I have addressed all the WP:FAC issues you mentioned especially the image licensing issues. All except one are now PD in accordance with Irish law and the one non-free has an extensive fair-use rational that should be acceptable to everyone because it complies with Wikipedia's own guidelines for fair-use stamp images. Hope that helps you finalise you review whenever you get time. TIA and cheers. ww2censor

No problem with the delay, I had enough to do putting inline citations in as I thought many more were indeed needed. As suggested, I expanded the lead and fell it introduces the topic well now and think I found all the dashes that I seem to have reintroduced during the inline citation edits.

Regarding your comment: "Although your heading changes simplified the TOC, they still chop up the text and make it hard to read" I repeat here most of what I already wrote on the FAC page here. Sorry for the duplication.

"The postage due and the stamp issuing authorities sections have been compressed without removing contents, so I hope you feel they flow better. Several of the subsection could be expended but only with detail that I don't think belongs here. Most of the sections have complete catalogues written about them, but this is not a catalogue, so unless I was to pad the sections I don't think there is much else I can add without seeming to be catalogue like. Each section in necessary and I cannot see a way of combining them without losing the individuality they require. More specific advise would be appreciated on how to achieve the layout you envision if it still lacks the construction you think appropriate." If you could be more specific it would be a great help, as I think you may be close to a change of heart, well hopefully you are. I am willing to try anything constructive. Cheers and thanks ww2censor 01:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a quick thank you for participating in the Postage stamps of Ireland FAC. Your input was very useful and I have learned a lot from the process. Whether you raised issues, assisted with some cleanup, opposed or supported the article, thanks again for all you do for Wikipedia. ww2censor 15:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Images

Is Image:JerryUht.jpg acceptable now? I think I have written it out clear enough on the image page. Thanks --trey 15:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

FAC for Northeastern United States tornado outbreak of 1989

As you seem to be "in the know" about FACs (I thought I was after two successful ones), and were the only one who offered any comments about the article, I was wondering if there's a waiting period for renomination. The way I see it the discussion was closed out of turn, you were the only user who provided comments, and I responded to every one of your concerns, yet the article was still failed. Anyway, I'm going to put it up for renomination soon if I don't hear from you, but thanks in advance for your help. -RunningOnBrains 18:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Erie, Pennsylvania

All image problems fixed (no shit!). The only remaining copyright images are the flag and seal (all FA cities have copyrighted flags and seals). All images that can be replaced by free ones have been replaced. Please update your oppose vote, thanks for your concern with the images, WP needs people like you =) --trey 04:48, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Flag Copyright Question

Hi, I have some questions about the types of copyrighting for flags of cities and seeing as you discovered the problems with copyrights and the images on Erie, PA (no offense intended), you seem to have a fair bit of experience with image copyrights. A lot of the city flags I come across have free licenses or some way to make them free (e.g. New York City's is public domain because its over 100 years old; LA's has a dual GFDL and Creative Commons license). So with those in mind, is their a way to make a flag of Erie that isn't non-free? Thanks. --​​​​Dtbohrer​​​​^{talk•contribs} 22:44, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

First, you'd have to find out if the flag is actually copyrighted or not, which no one seemed willing to do during the FAC. Pagrashtak 19:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Who would you contact? Maybe an e-mail to Erie City Hall is in order. --​​​​Dtbohrer​​​​^{talk•contribs} 02:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Talkheaders

• I added what I did in hopes that it would be a way of encouraging discussion on those particular topics. Especially on the dog articles, there is such a lack of reliable info....I'll be glad to change it back sometime this weekend, if there have been no entries. Thanks!!!

Dorothy Kernaghan-Baez 03:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Oklahoma FA Candidacy

Greetings, Pagrashtak. Oklahoma is currently undergoing a FA nomination and a reviewer insists that a few additional copy-editors look over the article. I looked through WP:Oklahoma's participants and I am asking a few of the editors that seem like they know what they are doing (joke). It would be of great help and very much appreciated if you could go through and give it a good look-through/copy-edit as soon as you can. Thank you so much for anything you can do. Okiefromokla•talk 03:06, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

OK

I understand now. LOZ: OOT 17:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

But are you saying that I don't mind WP:NPOV? LOZ: OOT 17:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, what are you asking? Pagrashtak 17:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. I take things too personally. Oh, by the way. Part of the summary used to read like this: "In addition to its commercial success, Ocarina of Time is frequently ranked as the greatest game ever made." Now it reads like this: "In addition to its commercial success, Ocarina of Time was also very well received critically." Furthermore, the reference for the original was a source that called it "one of" and not "THE" greatest game of all time. So when I edited, I took two sources from the Reception section and pasted them where the old reference was. Is this acceptable, or was it fine before? LOZ: OOT 18:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I would say that the previous wording is fine, but only if there is adequate references to support it. If there is not, then I support changing it. Pagrashtak 18:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I changed it because I thought it was sort of a peacock word. Sorry if that actually worsened the article. LOZ: OOT 19:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and did I mention that I think The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask is one of the best articles in all of Wikipedia? Excellent wording and everything. LOZ: OOT 04:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. It used to be better, though. I haven't been watching it as closely as I used to. Pagrashtak 16:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Oklahoma Newsletter

Greetings! This is a random delivery of the WikiProject Oklahoma newsletter, the "WikiOkie Reporter". You will not recieve this again unless you sign up.

The WikiOkie Reporter WikiProject Oklahoma's Newsletter Issue 1 - September 2007 Discuss this newsletter	Your second or third stop for WikiProject Oklahoma News Sign up to receive this newsletter Oklahoma Portal Current article statistics
WikiProject Oklahoma releases new newsletter September 2007 brings a new face to WikiProject Oklahoma: a newsletter. As in all of Wikipedia, the new WikiOkie Reporter (tenative name) is intended to be a collaborative effort among editors. Anyone can edit it: this month's newsletter is placed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma/newsletter/aug07, but next month's will be placed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma/newsletter/oct07, with the following month at /newsletter/nov07, and so on. While this month's article's were initially written by User:Okiefromokla, it is hoped other editors will be excited to contribute to articles, content, layout, and ideas. This is a completely new child of WikiProject Oklahoma, and it should reflect the collaborative work of everyone who's bored and has nothing to do for a few minutes. As such, anything can be discussed here: anything - layout, color scheme, pictures, content, etc. The behind-the-scenes workings for the WikiOkie Reporter will be simple: anyone wishing to receive the newsletter in their talk page may place their name at sign-up list, but they are more than free to remove their name from the same list at any time. Anyone wishing to discuss ideas or anything at all related to the newsletter may look no further than here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Oklahoma/newsletter/talk. Several WikiProjects already have ongoing newsletters, including Wikipedia: WikiProject North Dakota, from which WikiProject Oklahoma's newsletter has been based. For the time being, Okiefromokla will assume distribution responsibilities for the newsletter, maintaining the template, and writing articles from scratch if other editors have not done so by the 1st of the month. Promotions on the rise For many Wikipedians, summer is a time to kick back, relax, and make an occasional minor edit to their favorite few pages. Not so in WikiProject Oklahoma. Between May 12 and September, editors have been busily working on Oklahoma, Tulsa, and Woody Guthrie, and all three have been promoted. Prior to May, there were only seven Featured or Good articles in WikiProject Oklahoma. On May 12, Tulsa was promoted from B-class to FA class after a few months of extensive editing. Its primary editors were User:Nmajdan, User:SandyGeorgia, User:Okiefromokla, and a handful of others. On August 25, Oklahoma was promoted from B-class to FA class after a month-long blitz. User:Okiefromokla, User: SandyGeorgia, and several anonymous IPs contributed heavily to the article. On June 13, 2007, Woody Guthrie was promoted from B-Class to GA class after two failed attempts at promotion. User:Dannygutters, User:Gaff, User:Maenpong, and a handful of others contributed most to the article.
This month's task: Assess articles! Check out all these unassessed articles to help out!
The WikiProject Oklahoma newsletter is a work in progress so please share your ideas about how the newsletter can be improved. If you no longer wish to receive this newsletter, please remove your name from the sign-up list.

This newsletter was delivered to you by User:Okiefromokla

Copy and paste move

Thanks for your guidance on this. After more than a year of contributing to Wikipedia, I still have a lot to learn. Helpful advice is always welcome. Rodparkes 01:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Super Mario RPG lists

Currently, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars has two lists pertaining to it (List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars). User:TTN decided it would be best to merge the lists into the main article and split Smithy Gang into those articles. I recently merged Smithy Gang into the list of chatacters by removing the non-notable characters, and I have asserted that a cameo section in the list of characters is valid, per Wikipedia:Trivia sections and Wikipedia:Handling trivia that uses Alex Trebek#Cameos as a good example. I have suggested that we rename the articles per Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting potentially controversial moves to something along the lines of Characters of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and World of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars or Mushroom Kingdom (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) just like Characters of Final Fantasy VIII and World of Final Fantasy VI or Gaia (Final Fantasy VII). I believe if these articles are to evolve beyond a non-notable list, they should be renamed. For example, List of Final Fantasy VII locations was merged into Gaia (Final Fantasy VII), because a World article is notable, but a simple list of locations is not. That is why there are other secions of the article to make it a World article. It simply has not been renamed yet.

TTN believes the citations in the development and reception sections of the list of locations, books and magazines, are trivial sources. When I added that the 3D perspective of the game is reminicent of Equinox to the main article, TTN removed it since my souce was "the opinions of the Nintendo Power player's guide writers". Although it was actually Nintendo Power magazine, I do believe a magazine is a reliable source, and I gave a page from Next Generation Magazine which also said the same thing. In addition, I was surprized that TTN said that it was from the players guide, since he claims to own the players guide for the game. He has not verified this, since I asked him for citations in May, "Could you look in the back of the Player's Guide and tell me what “types” of … Magic? I forgot what they call it in the game … well, anyways, what types of Special Attack or whatever it is (actually, could you find out what it's called?) there are? I remember some vaguely when I owned the guide like “Fire”, “Jump”, “Electricity?”, etc. Could you provide a citation, like the page number with a quote in context?" TTN replied that he was going to "get to it" (User talk:TTN/Archive 5#List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars). TTN claims the player's guide is "at the bottom of a box that's behind at least five others in a cramped space". Seeing that TTN did not recognize that the page was not from the player's guide when I provided a scan of the page in question from Nintendo Power shocked me. However, I have continued to assume good faith by not questioning TTN's honesty.

Per Wikipedia:Consensus#Consensus can change, I have offered five different reasonable, temporary compromises that might integrate my idea with TTN's.

1. Go over the list of characters so we can delete non–notable characters
2. Rename the articles by following the steps at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting potentially controversial moves.
3. Cut down the geography section list of locations by cutting it into the regional maps the adventures use when traveling from one to another. I can get pictures and write the fair use rationals, and someone can cut down the text that has no citation and does not allude to other media.
4. Write the concept and creation and reception sections for the list of characters
5. Write the concept and creation section for the main article

TTN rejected my compromise because it still keeps the articles. I agreed I would consider a redirect, but Wikipedia:Article size does not allow that, since the list of locations is currently 82 KB long. Instead, I agreed to help cut down the geography section that is the bulk of the article, but TTN rejected that as well because TTN states, "I am not interested in working on the article in regards to improving it." and "get past this "having sources automatically means that this information is good" mentality." TTN states, "I don't think they have or will ever assert notability." I have replied with, "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so if you don't think the articles will ever assert notability, we cannot yet know this, per Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#I don't like it.

Would you please take a look at Talk:Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and give us your thoughts? Taric25 01:09, 1 October 2007 (UTC)