User talk:PamD/Archive 16
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Re: Percival Everett by Virgil Russell
Ironically, a review on Amazon:
This new novel by the prolific and always inventive Everett will, with its odd title alone, bedevil librarians...
Davemck (talk) 18:52, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Davemck It certainly confused this long-retired librarian! PamD 20:44, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
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Hello! Thanks for your with the National Trust 2022 pilot. Based on that work, the National Trust is supporting a second pilot, and some information is here WP:GLAM/National Trust. All the best Lajmmoore (talk) 11:22, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
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I need your input, if I may. I think we need a disambiguation page for Yoko Matsuoka, but I am also aware that part of the issue is that Yoko (name) has many variants in Japanese, but only one in English. For example, my subject's name in Japanese is 松岡洋子, but English speakers confuse her with 松岡陽子 Yoko Matsuoka McClain and then there is the actress Yōko Matsuoka who has the same spelling as my subject. Not sure how to address those issues and also am never sure about making disamb pages because I do it so rarely. I guess my question is since this is en.WP, should we have the disamb page and note the Japanese spellings or just use the English spellings? I appreciate your expertise and thank you for any help you can give. SusunW (talk) 15:28, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- I've made a dab page at Yoko Matsuoka. I haven't added any Japanese characters: I don't think we usually include them in dab pages. I've amended the hatnote at Yōko Matsuoka, which may not be strictly necessary now as the unaccented version of the name is the dab page, but it seems useful. I've made the redirect from Yoko Matsuoka (disambiguation) to the dab page.
- I've added her to the surname page at Matsuoka#Arts_and_entertainment, hoping I've done it right - there's a scary template I've never used before! Always something new to learn.
- I know nothing about Japanese characters, nor about Wikipedia's conventions for dealing with them, so I can't offer any expertise.
- Aargh ... just noticed that the one English-language source for Yōko Matsuoka spells her as Youka! Got to go out right now, might check back later. PamD 17:03, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you so much, it was very confusing to me so I felt like I needed your expertise. I truly appreciate the help. SusunW (talk) 17:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
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The Blackpool topic[edit source]
Greetings - I noted you likely are much more of a stakeholder in the Blackpool article - I did make many bold and strident changes - and I documented them as such in the audit trail of the edits - many apologies if I pushed this too far.
Sadly, the reversion by @DragonofBatley deleted other more conservative edits - the sizing of the images is the most notably visual loss of quality by these wholesale resets.
As with most matters there is a middle ground and sure - I have no interest in edit wars and I was crystal clear that I did think my edits - pushed the 'consensus boundaries' - but no one reacted negatively - until this day.
I focus on medical and science articles and there is less room for bombast and group think in such articles -
I did actually think the changes others made - size of images - should be reverted - but I am not getting directly involved.
Kind Regards, Dr. BeingObjective (talk) 18:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- @BeingObjective Blackpool isn't on my watchlist, and I think I'll stay out of the acrimonious scrap taking place there: huge amounts of changes seem to have been made to the article and I'm not interested enough in the place, or the article, to input the time it would take to consider whose version is better. Good luck to all involved. PamD 23:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks - it is resolved - I hope. BeingObjective (talk) 23:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
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AfD comment update
Hi! Just earlier, I made a small correction to my comment at the Julie Zeilinger AfD regarding the type of source I mentioned. I said it was an entire book, but it's just a chapter of the book. Wanted to let you know since you mentioned it in your comment before I fixed my error. Best, Bridget (talk) 21:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Bridget Thanks. I think even just the one chapter seems to confer notability, but it's good of you to let me know (I'd actually spotted your update too). PamD 22:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
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It was good to chat with you and The wub yesterday. For details of the WMUK meeting and its lightning talks, please see the blog and videos which have just been published. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Andrew Davidson Thanks: I rummaged around the website yesterday without finding it, but if it didn't go up till today that explains a lot! PamD 17:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
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Hello there, thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2024! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you so much, @Dr. Blofeld: let's hope 2024 is a good year for the encyclopedia and all its editors! Yuletide Greetings to you. PamD 19:43, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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Merry Christmas, PamD! Or Season's Greetings or Happy Winter Solstice! As the year winds to a close, I would like to take a moment to recognize your hard work and offer heartfelt gratitude for all you do for Wikipedia. And for all the help you've thrown my way over the years. May this Holiday Season bring you nothing but joy, health and prosperity. Onel5969 TT me 02:50, 23 December 2023 (UTC) |
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FYI - Lists and bolding of first column
Re your first-column bolding comment at AFD Women in Guam History. The bolding is for screen readers for the visually impaired. Same thing with the bolding of the column headers. I learned about it at Wikipedia:FLC, where the scope (bolding) is almost mandatory to pass table format for the Featured status. If you open it to the edit screen you see the terms scope="col" and scope="row". That's whet it's for - screen readers. — Maile (talk) 12:10, 24 April 2023 (UTCfor
- @Maile66: That's interesting, thanks. Where is the rule to use bold in that way written down? There is no mention of this use of bolding in MOS:BOLD, as far as I can see. Do we have two contradictory sets of guidelines here? PamD 13:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Maile66 For some reason I got the impression that this was a recent addition here ... but it looks as if I didn't reply at the time, so my puzzlement remains. Where is the use of Bold in column row titles mandated? I'm genuinely enquiring, not arguing! PamD 13:17, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Season's Greetings to all
Best wishes for Christmas / Yule / New Year to all my fellow-editors. For a little Christmas music I commend a couple of pieces done by Choir of the Earth (and yes, I'm among the singers): Midwinter and Vaughan Williams' Fantasia of Christmas Carols (both YouTube videos with amazing visuals from the technical team). PamD 23:34, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Sally Wainwright
Hello Pam, and Merry Christmas!
I've just given the lead of the article about Sally Wainwright a bit of a spruce up, and I was wondering if you'd mind checking my efforts. I don't generally edit biographies of living people, but I believe you do as part of the 'Women in Red' project and so I thought it would be sensible to call on your expertise. Don't worry if you can't help for whatever reason. Best wishes, A.D.Hope (talk) 12:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- @A.D.Hope It looks fine. I've made a redirect from Sally Anne Wainwright, and added her birthdate in Wainwright (surname) (went there to check that she was listed). Will have another look later ... am editing on phone while listening to Carols from Kings. PamD 15:32, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Have tweaked refs: the one you added was already in use, twice uncombined! Have combined to the long ref-name chosen by an earlier editor. (Before spotting the other 2, I had renamed your VE-generated ":0" using the wonderful RefRenamer tool: I strongly dislike VE's naming style.) PamD 16:18, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- @A.D.Hope Several of the refs further down the article are poorly formatted, with title only in some cases: I've fixed one just now but a lot more could do with upgrading. PamD 23:44, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- And seasonal greetings to you too! PamD 23:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you! I did really only look at the lead, then asked you for advice before proceeding further. Christmas will be occupying me for a while, but certainly a project for the new year if not before! A.D.Hope (talk) 23:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- And seasonal greetings to you too! PamD 23:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- @A.D.Hope Several of the refs further down the article are poorly formatted, with title only in some cases: I've fixed one just now but a lot more could do with upgrading. PamD 23:44, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Have tweaked refs: the one you added was already in use, twice uncombined! Have combined to the long ref-name chosen by an earlier editor. (Before spotting the other 2, I had renamed your VE-generated ":0" using the wonderful RefRenamer tool: I strongly dislike VE's naming style.) PamD 16:18, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Stub instructions
The reason I attempted to improve WP:stub is this. I feel that the instructions, which appear to date back to the earliest days of Wikipedia, have not kept up with the times. Abductive (reasoning) 19:01, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Abductive But what you left didn't make sense. Did you miss out "or", perhaps? PamD 20:20, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe, my language skills aren't all that great. If you can think of a way to phrase "if you know better, do better", please amend the instructions. Abductive (reasoning) 23:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Seasons Greetings
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Merry Christmas, PamD! Wishing you Season's Greetings and a Happy Winter Solstice! As the year comes to a close, I want to express my appreciation for your dedicated efforts on Wikipedia and extend heartfelt thanks for your assistance throughout the years. May the holiday season bring you and your loved ones abundant joy, good health, and prosperity. |
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2024 appeal
At my previous appeal I was advised to draft my appeal which is at User:Crouch, Swale/Appeal and show it to at least 1 experienced user, as you commented on several of the previous discussions I'm wondering what you think of the draft and if you have any advice, thanks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:31, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale I've been out all day, looking at a few things now on phone, will have more of a look on desktop and comment tomorrow. But for now I'd say that the Windermere and Bowness article had a missing comma, a poorly formatted url i infobox, and an unsourced vague date (fixed those), and needs a description of the parish boundary which is quite quirky covering the majority of the eponymous lake and extending up into the mountains including Yoke, as shown in Nomis2011 and on OS mapping. Could also do with some coordinates. Enough for tonight! Cheers. PamD 23:41, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- I've added a missing ref for the Bowness merger but I'm not sure refs are needed for the formation of Westmorland and Furness, I think the refs in Westmorland and Furness and South Lakeland cover that. Maps would be useful but we currently have few maps for parishes outside the East Riding of Yorkshire and Derbyshire, see List of civil parishes in the East Riding of Yorkshire. The coords seem fine as they are for Langstone House the council's meeting place, what coords were you thinking about adding. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:38, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale I didn't see that it had coords - not displayed in mobile view, not visible in infobox, not there as a separate template at end of article. It doesn't seem helpful to put them in infobox template and not display them there. Even without a map, a verbal description of the extent of the parish seems appropriate, as it goes so far south and north of the settlements. I think the Nomis2011 data would be an adequate source for such a description, though I know there has been discussion about whether .as can be used as sources. Are those adjoining parishes in order, if so it would be helpful to describe them (eg "X in the north, followed in a clockwise direction by ... " or "X to the north, y and z to the northeast ... ".
- Another busy day, again editing on phone, still not answered your actual request, sorry! Perhaps tomorrow. PamD 18:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- I've added a missing ref for the Bowness merger but I'm not sure refs are needed for the formation of Westmorland and Furness, I think the refs in Westmorland and Furness and South Lakeland cover that. Maps would be useful but we currently have few maps for parishes outside the East Riding of Yorkshire and Derbyshire, see List of civil parishes in the East Riding of Yorkshire. The coords seem fine as they are for Langstone House the council's meeting place, what coords were you thinking about adding. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:38, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red January 2024
 
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Happy New Year, PamD!
PamD,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Abishe (talk) 14:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
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Manual of Style/Words to Watch
For the sake of any of my talk page watchers: the link to the page under discussion is Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch PamD 19:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, my motivation for adding the comma is purely grammatical. The ‘and’ there separates two independent clauses (‘many do not last’ is an ind clause), which requires punctuation in addition to the conjunction.
im totally open to finding a mutually agreeable solution. I don’t see how the comma changes the meaning of either clause, but I’m plenty open to being persuaded that it does. In any case, Wikipedia’s style guidelines on punctuation require a comma (plausibly a semicolon) to separate the two independent clauses joined by the ‘and’ conjunction.
cCan you help me understand how the meaning of the sentence changes with the addition of a comma? In any case, I absolutely want to preserve the intended meaning, but must respectfully urge that some kind of change is appropriate, as, without any punctuation, it is simply improper grammatically.
I imagine we can fairly easily find an alternative construction that conveys the meaning intended without violating a basic rule of grammar. Cheers, and Happy New Year! (and, apologies for not explaining my rationale for the change! 🤦♂️) Huskerdru (talk) 14:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Huskerdru Please remember to link to ant page you are duscussing in a talk page, to help other editors, especially those editing on phones.
- The sentence is: "They should generally be avoided because their definitions tend to be unstable and many do not last. "
- Without the comma, I read this as:
- They should generally be avoided because (a) their definitions tend to be unstable and [because](b) many do not last.
- With the comma, it reads as:
- (a)They should generally be avoided because their definitions tend to be unstable, and (b)many do not last.
- (There's probably a third interpretation as:
- They should generally be avoided because their definitions tend to be unstable and many [of the definitions] do not last. !)
- I think the first meaning is intended, so that the comma leads the reader to a different meaning.
- Perhaps:
- They should generally be avoided, because their definitions tend to be unstable and many of the terms do not last.
- That comma seems helpful, and "the terms" clarifies. Would you find that acceptable? PamD 15:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the correction on needing to link to page! I will do so consistently in future.
- I disagree with your stated rationale regarding possible difference in meaning, but it’s not a hill I’d die on. I think your proposed restatement improves on what’s there now, but, again, that last ‘and’ precedes an independent clause (‘Many of the terms do not last’ would be a valid sentence in its own right), one of the few areas of punctuation where the requirement is clear. If you still don’t like the comma there, I’d suggest something like:
- They should generally be avoided, because: their definitions tend to be unstable; and, many of the terms [or, ‘many neologisms] do not last.
- Or something in that neighborhood. Lemme know if I’m making little sense, which, heaven knows, happens often enough. Cheers,
- Huskerdru (talk) 15:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, and I totally agree that adding ‘the terms’ does, indeed, clarify.
- Huskerdru (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Huskerdru As an educated mother-tongue British English-speaker I'm not familiar with the rigid requirement you describe, about the need for a piece of punctuation to separate two independent clauses. I don't think I've ever come across it. Perhaps my very academic school was going through a liberal phase during my 1960s education. Where within Wikipedia is the grammatical advice to which you refer? I wonder if it's possible that this is something Americans are more particular about than other users of English?
- I hope that your final suggestion, with a colon, semicolon and comma, was a joke. PamD 08:20, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I’m sorry you’ve opted for snark instead of cooperation. One good source, that Wikipedia includes in its style guides, is Oxford Univeristy Press’s Modern English Use (Comma#Separation of clauses), so, no, it’s very much British in origin, and among the most basic requirements of punctuation in English—don’t string together two sentences without punctuation. Perhaps it was not your school that was the issue in your lack of familiarity with it; I’m quite confident it was taught. I won’t belabor the issue or re-revert the change. I truly am interested in finding common ground, not insulting my fellow editors. The fact remains, however, it’s required. Huskerdru (talk) 12:56, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, and, no, not a joke, though the semicolon was a typo. Huskerdru (talk) 13:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Huskerdru No snark or insult intended, just real puzzlement and a simple request to know where in the Wikipedia MOS this is, as you say, required. PamD 14:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- There's no snark there. Comma#Separation of clauses is far more tentative than you suggest, and the cases where a comma is absolutely required far fewer - essentially those where a different meaning or serious ambiguity would result from not having one. Fwiw, I have a (rather old) degree in English from what you call "Oxford Univeristy". Johnbod (talk) 14:23, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies! I read something into your post that you didn’t intend, mea culpa.
- yes, fair point Johnbod. “Required” is, indeed, too strong. More accurate to say it’s recommended, and, in any case, unobjectionable. But, the whole point of punctuation is clarity, and if this doesn’t improve clarity, then it serves no good purpose.
- fwiw, I’d say that’s worth quite a lot! Hmm, I call it University of Oxford. Do you generally assume we Yanks all call it by the wrong name? Some of us, at least, don’t. Huskerdru (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Well, you had "Oxford Univeristy Press" just above, but no doubt that was just a typo. Johnbod (talk) 18:47, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- No typo, the publishing house is, indeed, called Oxford University Press (https://corp.oup.com/)…I did a lot of work with many good folk at OUP during my time at JSTOR. Huskerdru (talk) 19:02, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Huskerdru@Johnbod This is getting slightly silly: there are now two examples where someone has not spotted a typo "Univeristy" so has misunderstood what was being said, I think! PamD 19:05, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Good spot, lol, yes, the misspelling of university was definitely a typo! Huskerdru (talk) 19:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Huskerdru@Johnbod This is getting slightly silly: there are now two examples where someone has not spotted a typo "Univeristy" so has misunderstood what was being said, I think! PamD 19:05, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- No typo, the publishing house is, indeed, called Oxford University Press (https://corp.oup.com/)…I did a lot of work with many good folk at OUP during my time at JSTOR. Huskerdru (talk) 19:02, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Well, you had "Oxford Univeristy Press" just above, but no doubt that was just a typo. Johnbod (talk) 18:47, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Huskerdru Agreed, clarity is all-important. We have "A because B and C", meaning "A because (B and C)". If we add a comma before "and", I think it then reads as "(A because B), and C". (Me, I'm a maths graduate ... with, coincidentally, an MSc in Information Studies.) So I think the added comma "serves no good purpose", to use your words. Perhaps the whole sentence is clumsy and needs to be rethought? PamD 18:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, your A-B-C notation makes much clearer to me how you saw the comma changing the possible reading of the sentence, thanks.
- and, agreed, I think you also ably demonstrate that the sentence, however punctuated, could be reformulated for greater clarity. I’ll give it a few minutes’ thought and come up with a couple suggestions Huskerdru (talk) 19:08, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, and, no, not a joke, though the semicolon was a typo. Huskerdru (talk) 13:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I’m sorry you’ve opted for snark instead of cooperation. One good source, that Wikipedia includes in its style guides, is Oxford Univeristy Press’s Modern English Use (Comma#Separation of clauses), so, no, it’s very much British in origin, and among the most basic requirements of punctuation in English—don’t string together two sentences without punctuation. Perhaps it was not your school that was the issue in your lack of familiarity with it; I’m quite confident it was taught. I won’t belabor the issue or re-revert the change. I truly am interested in finding common ground, not insulting my fellow editors. The fact remains, however, it’s required. Huskerdru (talk) 12:56, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
Thank you Pam
I am very thankful and appreciative of your edits to my first article! I can't help hoping you are proud of me as you are my auntie on here. I have learned to tidy up!! If you have a moment I am also proud of my edits to Momtaza Mehri. So many tidy-ups! When I was doing my linkings to The Complete Works (poetry) I came on this page Victoria Adukwei Bulley It is a terrible mess, so bad I ran away! Maybe you will look one day. NoorStores (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores Most of VAB's page seems to be pretty much as I created it. What do you see as "a terrible mess"? There is little biographical info and no date of birth, because there seems to be nothing published. PamD 17:36, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm sorry Pam, I was remembering the wrong poet! I have been on a lightening tour of every one on the Complete Works Programme now and I got confused.
- Victoria is in good shape but I must go back and put in Rathbones Folio Prize and John Pollard prize. NoorStores (talk) 17:44, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores That's a relief! Who was the mess? PamD 17:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Pam I am concerned about Mona Arshi. She is a good poet! Her page is long and looks fine, but when you look at it the citations do not match up to the information. And I was not sure what was what, either, what was relevant. When I was tidying Momtaza Mehri it was easier because several links just didn't work and lots of information was missing so I was sure of what to do. But this gave me a headache, and I ran away! NoorStores (talk) 10:04, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores Please try to remember to link any page you talk about in a talk page post: I shouldn't have had to copy and paste, or type, Mona Arshi.
- I'm short of time right now, heading out to the funeral of an amazing 92-year-old who was an active member, with his rollator, of a supported walking group with which I volunteer, but I'll try and have a look at it some time. I see the article has been around for a while, with contributions from several different editors. PamD 11:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- I see the article Mona Arshi was started in 2015 by @Uhooep, who is still an active editor, so they might like to have a look at it. PamD 11:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you Pam, I apologise. I am learning! Just dashing to work now, thank you as ever for guidance. NoorStores (talk) 11:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- I see the article Mona Arshi was started in 2015 by @Uhooep, who is still an active editor, so they might like to have a look at it. PamD 11:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- Pam I am concerned about Mona Arshi. She is a good poet! Her page is long and looks fine, but when you look at it the citations do not match up to the information. And I was not sure what was what, either, what was relevant. When I was tidying Momtaza Mehri it was easier because several links just didn't work and lots of information was missing so I was sure of what to do. But this gave me a headache, and I ran away! NoorStores (talk) 10:04, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores That's a relief! Who was the mess? PamD 17:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Thank you Pam!!!
The Tomiwa Olowade article was published, all thanks to you! I'm at work but sneaking into Wiki! I'm addicted! NoorStores (talk) 14:06, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores Or even Tomiwa Owolade! It's always worth glimpsing back at an edit to look out for surprising red links. I'm glad that my nudging to Drmies was successful. Yes, editing can become quite addictive and a huge timesink. I'm lucky enough to be retired, but even so there are other things I ought to spend more time on! PamD 19:00, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Edits to Olive Clarke
Hi Pam, apologies I got cut off mid-sentence on my last edit to the Olive Clarke page (the problems with editing Wikipedia on mobile!). I removed (died) "peacefully in her sleep" as per WP:EUPHEMISM as I believe it to be non-encyclopaedic language like "slipped on" or "passed away". As per is standard, nationality should usually go at the start of the lead. Mentioning age in section about death is important too, especially when no infobox is present. As for beginning new paragraphs with "She"... I don't personally like this, but this one I won't fight you on if you wish to restore these. If you want to keep these changes off the page please let me know why below and we'll work together to make a better version. Hope you have a great day. Thanks! Jkaharper (talk) 09:32, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Jkaharper Apologies: problems of mobile editing! I managed to get confused as to which direction the edit was going - perhaps couldn't believe that I hadn't created the article in the standard "A is a [nationality] [occupation]" form! Of course your version is the correct, standard one: I thought I was reverting in the other direction. And the other changes are fine too, though I'm not sure that "peacefully in her sleep" is really a euphemism: it's a truth, saying she didn't fall off a stepladder, or die in agony with cancer. It's not the same as using "passed away" etc: I wrote that she died. But as my only source for that statement is a Facebook post, I won't argue it.
- I've now, as a reminder, added "[nationality]" to my boilerplate outline for biographies, having shockingly forgotten it this time!
- Sorry again about the bad early-morning revert. Happy New(ish) Year! PamD 14:18, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- No excuse really, but I was working on Clarke's article in a bit of a hurry, hoping to get it finished before her funeral the next day, having been reminded by seeing signposts for car-parking for the funeral (car-parking at the county show ground, shuttle buses to the parish church up its narrow lane) while driving my husband back from a hospital appt (she'd been on my "maybe to write one day" list for a while, but this nudged me). I still can't find a copyright-free photo, although there are plenty in the newspapers, and no-one in the WI Federation seems to have both a photo they've taken and are happy to share and the technical confidence to try uploading it. (I might contact the Young Farmers and see if they've got anyone who could help.)
- I don't think my membership of Cumbria-Westmorland Federation of WIs counts as a COI, though I did speak to Olive a couple of times at county-wide meetings. An extraordinary person. PamD 14:27, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
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Keyerzozie page
Pam, I've mentioned it before, but you ROCK. You remind of my Auntie Z in Pakistan. She is the strict one, but all the cousins' favourite because she is the fair and kind one. NoorStores (talk) 15:40, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores Thank you! "Fair" and "kind" are how I hope to be in editing Wikipedia, though I sometimes get a bit impatient too! I hadn't seen all the recent discussions until just earlier today, and wasn't about to get involved in the main discussion, but I did notice that that one editor seemed to have been editing as a COI editor for 20 years. It'll be interesting to see whether they respond. (For talk page watchers: this is about User talk:Keyserzozie#Possible conflict of interest).
- I see some other editors have suggested this too, but you might do better to concentrate on creating new well-sourced articles on neglected poets and other writers, and step back from the Clanchy et al maelstrom. There are some red links in the author column for The Writers' Prize, mostly poets, and also the Somerset Maugham Award: being a winner or shortlisted for one of those is a good start for notability, and you then need to find a few reviews in solid WP:RS, and go on from there. Less stressful, but very useful to the encyclopedia, and to diversity if you choose suitably diverse people to write about! PamD 16:31, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- good idea Pam. I am very very happy with my The Complete Works (poetry) page. I know it is useful, and many people have linked to it, and I can imagine many people like me studying publishing using it in the future. It just made me happy to publish it. I will look up those red links for sure!
- I will add 'brave' and 'kind' to my description of you. Also true of Auntie Z. NoorStores (talk) 16:57, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- GREAT tip Pam! I am going to do Zaffar Kunial! It would never occur to me he did not have a page! NoorStores (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Pam, You are very very brave!Thank you again. I think men like Mr Troutman speak for themselves though. Nobody could respect that.
- Advice, please, do you think I should take Keyserzozie to Conflict of Interest page? I think she should say she is working for Joanne Harris on her talk page and on her articles? There is a badge for this I see. NoorStores (talk) 12:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- PS I have started on Zaffar Kunial. NoorStores (talk) 12:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- Pam, I've been listening to my mum and big brother, and I'm leaving Wiki for at least a good bit. I have told them about you and they agree you are QUEEN and also a lot like Auntie Z. My mother said Auntie Z would put her hand in the fire for you, and my brother said, not if she could think of something smarter to do first!
- You would think of something smarter.
- I feel you have taught me about being a bigger person. And always to reference after the full stop! I hope I will meet you in person one day.
- NOOR NoorStores (talk) 14:30, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- PS I have started on Zaffar Kunial. NoorStores (talk) 12:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- GREAT tip Pam! I am going to do Zaffar Kunial! It would never occur to me he did not have a page! NoorStores (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of National Day of Reflection (UK).png
.png){kind=link}
Thanks for uploading File:Logo of National Day of Reflection (UK).png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:15, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
.png){kind=link}
Please check this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Keyserzozie/Archive I don't think this is a fair record of what you did. I'm logging out now and staying out. NoorStores (talk) 10:56, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- @NoorStores I don't think I harassed them, and nor does the SPI report suggest that I did. I'd have liked to see a reply to my question as to whether they had been a paid editor while doing their earlier work on the JH etc articles, but I asked it three days after their last edit (under that editor name!), so no surprise to get no response.
- I've replied to "logging out now and staying out" at User talk:NoorStores#Goodbye or .... PamD 15:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Margaret Parker (Q18762034)
A tag has been placed on Margaret Parker (Q18762034) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section R3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a recently created redirect from an implausible typo or misnomer, or other unlikely search term.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Fram (talk) 09:58, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- So, just checking, @Fram and @Deb Was creating that redirect the right thing to do? I found her as a red link in Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Temperance worker, and discovered that she already had an article as Margaret Eleanor Parker. I reckoned that creating the redirect would save other WiR editors from wasting time thinking about, or making, a duplicate article for her. I think I checked that she was already linked as a hatnote from the article which was then at the base name of Margaret Parker, and I also did what I could to get the two Wikidata entries combined. See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red#Another redirect, Henrietta Brown (Q115787698). Was it correct to create this redirect as a temporary measure? PamD 15:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think this needs to be solved at Wikidata level, by merging/redirecting the duplicate entry to the existing one, not by "polluting" enwiki (I mean it less accusatory than it probably sounds, I don't mean to claim that you were vandalizing or anything similar). Take for example Ida Henrietta HydeWD entry and Ida HydeWD entry. At Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Inventors, we have a redlink for Ida Hyde (Q122841752), but what needs to be done is not the creation of this redlink, but the removal (as a separate entry) of the duplicate Wikidata entry: when this is done, the next run of Listeriabot should remove the entry from the WiR list. Until that next run, you could also edit the WiR list to point to the right article on enwiki of course. Fram (talk) 15:43, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I hadn't looked at the history carefully enough. @Fram is right, of course. Deb (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Deb@Fram Thanks, both. So another time I should fix the WikiData duplication, and then pipe the redlink in the table to the existing article, because the next run to produce an updated table will not include an entry for this person because the duplicate WikiData entry which was creating it will no longer exist. I think I've got that clear now! "Every day a school day" when it comes to editing Wikipedia (especially in the somewhat baffling territory of Wikidata). I hope I can remember it next time I find one of these. PamD 16:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think this needs to be solved at Wikidata level, by merging/redirecting the duplicate entry to the existing one, not by "polluting" enwiki (I mean it less accusatory than it probably sounds, I don't mean to claim that you were vandalizing or anything similar). Take for example Ida Henrietta HydeWD entry and Ida HydeWD entry. At Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Inventors, we have a redlink for Ida Hyde (Q122841752), but what needs to be done is not the creation of this redlink, but the removal (as a separate entry) of the duplicate Wikidata entry: when this is done, the next run of Listeriabot should remove the entry from the WiR list. Until that next run, you could also edit the WiR list to point to the right article on enwiki of course. Fram (talk) 15:43, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Welcome to the drive!
Welcome, welcome, welcome! Thank you so much for joining the drive. When I perform a scan of articles belong to Category:Women writers and Category:All articles lacking sources using PetScan, I found that there are 52 articles:
- Ida Nyrop Ludvigsen
- Ifigeneia Giannopoulou
- Jana Černá
- Eufrosinia Kersnovskaya
- Hanni Ossott
- Pilar de Lusarreta
- Quenby Fung
- Nienke van Hichtum
- Ansen Dibell
- Ida Vos
- Susanna Highmore
- Charlotte Fielden
- Spunk (play)
- Leonor López de Córdoba
- Martha Cheavens
- Ling Li (writer)
- Clardeluna
- Kayla Parker
- Tamar Fish Nachshon
- Jennifer Dawson
- Peggy Sloane
- Dagon Khin Khin Lay
- Lina Ramann
- Aroti Dutt
- Eleni Ourani
- Dickinson Electronic Archives
- Georgette Vallejo
- Madeleine Schlumberger
- Susana Molinari Leguizamón
- Edythe Morahan de Lauzon
- Geneviève Fauconnier
- Sigrid Boo
- Marcia Levin
- Kumari Radha
- Constanza Ossorio
- Elysa Ayala
- Ana Pelegrín
- María Nieves y Bustamante
- Stefania Mosca
- Kata Szidónia Petrőczy
- Jeannie Ebner
- Ehrengard Schramm
- Saeeda Faiz
- Anna Zay
- List of Greek women writers
- List of Bolivian women writers
- Pooran (singer)
- Margarita Rudenko
- List of experimental women writers
- Liu Zunqi
- Something Childish
- Gloria Alcorta
Since you are a member of the WP:Women in Red project, I think you might be interested in these articles and you might want to practice your citation skills on them. Anyways, I wish you good luck on the drive on February 1! You'll need it. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- @CactiStaccingCrane Dipping into a couple of those at random, I think I'm going to need to brush up my knowledge of what is and isn't a WP:RS for people like SF writers! I might have a go at some of these, in Feb, or I might go for the random approach or pick a chunk of the alphabet of the general listing. I've not used PetScan but had a go at changing your "Women writers" to "British women", still intersecting with unsourced, which produces an interesting batch of 56 articles ... including the baffling Scotland's Forgotten Valour. I can only think that the category Category:Victoria Cross books got interpreted as "Books by the (female) writer called Victoria Cross"! Several of the others need access to "Debretts" or similar: I might even make a list of those and pop it on the talk page of a relevant Wikiproject. I'll enjoy doing something with these, in Feb. Makes a change from fractious discussions about spats between twittering writers. PamD 15:48, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm very glad that you enjoy the drive, indeed it is also an excuse for me to not joining any AfD and getting suck into nasty debates. There's another more convenient way to find articles than using PetScan, which is
[search term] incategory:"All articles lacking sources". It's pretty interesting what you can found on there. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 00:57, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm very glad that you enjoy the drive, indeed it is also an excuse for me to not joining any AfD and getting suck into nasty debates. There's another more convenient way to find articles than using PetScan, which is
Books & Bytes – Issue 60
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 60, November – December 2023
- Three new partners
- Google Scholar integration
- How to track partner suggestions
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --13:36, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Women in Red February 2024
Announcement
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--Lajmmoore (talk 20:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Deserts of Greece
A tag has been placed on Category:Deserts of Greece indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz Read! Talk! 20:11, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Did you mean to title this without the "h"? The Ordnance Survey and all 3 sources in the article call it "Clach-bheinn". Should it be moved without redirect at WP:RMT to Clach-bheinn, Highland or just Clach-bheinn? Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:14, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale Thanks for spotting that! I've fixed it, I think. Have spent too much of this afternoon sorting out another pair of confused Scottish mountains, going off at tangents from WP:FEB24. All very satisfying, filling in bits of the jigsaw. I see you noticed my new parish article yesterday and gave it an infobox, thanks. PamD 17:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Great Lives
I finished with the available categories for Great Lives. You can proceed with updating the text. Dimadick (talk) 14:13, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Dimadick Thanks! I'll load up the rest of the current series ... which may leave you some more categories to add. PamD 14:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Eleonara Amalia Maria Adelborg
A tag has been placed on Eleonara Amalia Maria Adelborg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
Misspelled. --DaizY (talk) 22:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. DaizY (talk) 22:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Eleonara Adelborg
A tag has been placed on Eleonara Adelborg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
Misspelled. --DaizY (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. DaizY (talk) 22:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
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Museumand article
Hi, @PamD, just alerting you to an AfD discussion I've started at an article you created. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 20:31, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
It's currently just a blank page – would you like it deleted or as a redirect? DanCherek (talk) 22:59, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Deleted, please: I created another redirect at Knockbrack (Dublin) in line with other Irish mountains. Thanks. PamD 23:04, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, done. Thanks! DanCherek (talk) 23:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 19 § Category:Zoos by year of disestablishment
A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 19 § Category:Zoos by year of disestablishment on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:31, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Women in Red March 2024
Announcements
Tip of the month:
Other ways to participate:
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--Lajmmoore (talk 20:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging
"No point in piping"
Re: this edit in future it would perhaps be better for you to make such an edit as a fresh one, rather than by undoing me. My edit was, as was clearly labelled, reverting block evasion. I'm sure you don't want people to mistakenly assume you are editing on behalf of the evader. DuncanHill (talk) 11:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- @DuncanHill I'm not sure it's necessary to revert every edit by a blocked editor: WP:BANREVERT says "This does not mean that edits must be reverted just because they were made by a banned editor (changes that are obviously helpful, such as fixing typos or undoing vandalism, can be allowed to stand), but the presumption in ambiguous cases should be to revert." Avoiding a pipe to a redirect is slightly less clearcut than fixing a typo or vandalism, but pretty near.
- I don't think anyone would say I was editing on behalf of the evader, when my edit summary explains my reasoning for the edit.
- But, to keep you happy, I'll undo my undoing, and then make the sensible change. ... Done.
- It's an article verging on the AFD-able in any case: no evidence that NT or anyone else uses the term "Wasdale, Eskdale and Duddon" as one entity. I came across it when looking at the Petscan intersection of Category:Articles lacking sources and Category:Cumbria for WP:FEB24: it was one which I gave up on, but while I was looking at it I took a short cut to unpiping an unnecessary piping by reverting your edit. Will try to remember to avoid doing similar UNDOs in future. PamD 14:02, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
OrphanReferenceFixer: Help on reversion
Hi there! I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. Recently, you reverted my fix to Anum Qaisar.
If you did this because the references should be removed from the article, you have misunderstood the situation. Most likely, the article originally contained both <ref name="foo">...</ref> and one or more <ref name="foo"/> referring to it. Someone then removed the <ref name="foo">...</ref> but left the <ref name="foo"/>, which results in a big red error in the article. I replaced one of the remaining <ref name="foo"/> with a copy of the <ref name="foo">...</ref>; I did not re-insert the reference to where it was deleted, I just replaced one of the remaining instances. What you need to do to fix it is to make sure you remove all instances of the named reference so as to not leave any big red error.
If you reverted because I made an actual mistake, please be sure to also correct any reference errors in the page so I won't come back and make the same mistake again. Also, please post an error report at User talk:AnomieBOT so my operator can fix me! If the error is so urgent that I need to be stopped, also post a message at User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/OrphanReferenceFixer. Thanks! AnomieBOT⚡ 06:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC) If you do not wish to receive this message in the future, add {{bots|optout=AnomieBOT-OrphanReferenceFixer}} to your talk page.
- @AnomieBOT The bot didn't notice that I'd also reverted the previous edit which had caused the problem. PamD 06:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Template for MPs
Howdy. I'm asking for the 'majority' parameter to be deleted at Template:Infobox officeholder, concerning Members of Parliament. Not sure when or why its been added. Also noticed them in the current members of the Scottish & Welsh Parliaments, along with current members of the British Parliament. These infoboxes are about officer holder, not election results. GoodDay (talk) 06:36, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
I notice you didn't restore the 'vote total & percentage'. May I take it, you agree with me, such info doesn't belong in an officeholder infobox? GoodDay (talk) 07:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
A citation barnstar for you
For good work during WP: FEB24 Davidindia (talk) 15:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
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The Citation Barnstar | |
| For good work during WP: FEB24 Davidindia (talk) 15:27, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
- Thank you, it was fun ... and somewhat addictive. PamD 15:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- I seem to have come 18th in the league table for WP:FEB24; it was fun trying to improve the encyclopedia and there are few, if any, completely unsourced items left for British and Irish hills, British rivers, Cumbria (having removed the Welsh items from the category tree), City of Lancaster, and fewer than there were for Lancashire, plus some random work. WP:Petscan, which I'd always assumed was something very technical, turns out to be a very easy way to intersect category trees, so I could match Category:All articles lacking sources with anything I found interesting or had good sources for. PamD 15:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Good article reassessment for South West Coast Path
South West Coast Path has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
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Always precious
Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt Thank you! PamD 16:26, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
February 2024 WikiProject Unreferenced articles backlog drive – award
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Citation Barnstar | |
| This award is given in recognition to PamD for collecting more than 100 points during the WikiProject Unreferenced articles's FEB24 backlog drive. Your contributions played a crucial role in sourcing 14,300 unsourced articles during the drive. Thank you so much for participating and helping to reduce the backlog! – – DreamRimmer (talk) 18:43, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
Possible unintentional COI at Museumand article/deletion discussion
Hi, @pamD, I'd like to make a friendly and helpful comment here to see what you think. I was surprised to see your comments at the deletion discussion about the PR company which I think has been involved in placing Museumand related material on various, often unverifiable, websites. There is no doubt whatever that M&H Ltd is a private company which self-describes as business PR and event organising business. Most such companies operate within a single sector, in this case museums and, at the margins, libraries. My concern about your comment is that it seems to me that your desire to present M@H Ltd in the way you have might extend from membership of what you consider a community rather than a business. I also wonder if you have been in contact with the Museumand owners since we started the deletion discussion; there is an indication to me that you might have been. I've also noticed a pattern at the deletion discussion which might suggest that supportive comments might have been solicited. I could be entirely wrong, of course, and please excuse me if I am. I would say, though, that I think if I were right then you might be in breach of COI policy and it would be better to declare a personal interest. I am not suggesting in any way that you are doing anything untoward on purpose and I have no doubt that you are editing in good faith; I do find that your efforts at the deletion discuss appear, to me, more like lobbying than a regular editing discussion. Happy to discuss further. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 11:11, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- I find your attitude very odd, too, intent on destroying an article and ready to make careless assertions.
- For complete clarity: Yes, I emailed Museumand, once. I'll add it to the AfD. PamD 11:49, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, @pamD, I'd ask you to assume good faith. I've simply proposed deletion of an article which conforms to AfD requirements and does not conform to the various WP policies I've laid out. I opened a dialogue here, not at the deletion discussion, because that is the first stage of the WP:COI process as I understand it. My view, having read what you've put at the AfD, is that your actions go beyond editing and participating in an AfD to a point where you are essentially acting as a supporter of Museumand (if it exists). In conjunction with your (no doubt accidental) misrepresentation of a commercial PR company as a 'community', which suggests to me that you may be part of that community', I think it is quite possible that you are breaching WP:COI. I won't carry on this discussion at the AfD page because that is a distraction from the AfD process. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 18:32, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for March 12
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Murray (surname), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Alison Murray.
(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 18:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yup, deliberate link - good to see the bot keeping us all up to scratch! PamD 18:28, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
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The Original Barnstar |
| Thanks you PamD for updating Chameli Devi Jain Award for Outstanding Women Mediapersons. Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 15:42, 25 March 2024 (UTC) |
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March 2024
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but a recent edit of yours has an edit summary that appears to be inadequate, inaccurate, or inappropriate. The summaries are helpful to people browsing an article's history, so it is important that you use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did. Feel free to use the sandbox to make test edits. This one.
WP:EDITSUMMARY: provide a meaningful summary for every edit, especially when reverting (undoing) the actions of other editors
Paradoctor (talk) 15:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Paradoctor Sorry about that: I couldn't just use "Undo" as there were two edits, and forgot that "Rollback" doesn't allow for an edit summary while "Rollback (AGF)" does. I should have gone to your talk page, or followed it up with a dummy edit with an edit summary. My reason for reverting your edit was that the QVH dab page didn't seem appropriate: anything known as "Queen Victoria Hospital" would have been on the dab page, anything else would be irrelevant. (But perhaps WP:DTR: If you look at my edit history or my edit summary analysis, you can see that 99.6% of my edits have summaries (and most of the rest are probably cases where Twinkle adds an automatic one). A "You seem to have forgotten to add a summary to this edit, I wonder if you could explain it" might have been more appropriate here.) PamD 17:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't mind the revert as such. If I did, I would have let you known.
couldn't just use "Undo"
WP:UNDO:It is also possible to undo several consecutive edits, even if they conflict among themselves: view the "diff" to be removed (by selecting the earliest and most recent revisions in the history and clicking "compare selected revisions"), and click the "undo" link.
If you look at [...] my edit summary analysis
Surprise. I did. That's why I used {{uw-wrongsummary}}, not {{uw-editsummary2}}.seem to have forgotten to add a summary
You didn't forget, the edit has an edit summary. What you neglected to do was to provide a meaningful edit summary, as per above. The way it is now, your revert could easily be read as a vandalism revert.or followed it up with a dummy edit with an edit summary
That's the thing that gets me. Why haven't you after I notified you? It's not as if there was something stopping you.- [Please don't ping me, I'm watching.] Paradoctor (talk) 18:35, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Paradoctor I didn't see any need as I'd explained myself to you here, but have now made a dummy edit with explanation. {{wrongsummary}} doesn't seem to match the situation of leaving an automatic edit summary, as it suggests a positive choice of inappropriate words. "Revert" is a neutral term and implies nothing. Yes, I suppose multiple "Undo"s would have worked. PamD 21:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Am on phone so can't easily correct on talkpage: I meant {{uw-wrongsummary}}. PamD 21:01, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- For the second time: Please don't ping me, I'm watching.
I'd explained myself to you here
Edit histories are permanent public record, you know that, right? If it was only for myself, then I wouldn't have asked.doesn't seem to match the situation of leaving an automatic edit summary
We're responsible for our edits, automated or not. Also note H:ES:Except for the automatic summary when creating a redirect, [...] these are not a substitute for a proper edit summary
"Revert" is a neutral term and implies nothing.
It is so neutral that it explains nothing beyond the bare fact that it is a revert. As I pointed out at the very beginning of this conversation: WP:FIESprovide a meaningful summary
[added emphasis]. Which means giving a reason, which the canned edit summary doesn't.- Perhaps more to the is that just about the only situation where lack of meaningful edit summary is widely tolerated is reversion of obvious vandalism. Which means saying "this is a revert" and nothing else carries a strong connotation of vandalism. You've been around a smidgen longer than I, this should not come as a surprise. Paradoctor (talk) 00:04, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Edit summaries are not compulsory. "Revert" is neutral. Templating a longstanding editor with a template welcoming them to Wikipedia is not appropriate. This conversation has wasted enough time and is now closed. PamD 08:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Am on phone so can't easily correct on talkpage: I meant {{uw-wrongsummary}}. PamD 21:01, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Paradoctor I didn't see any need as I'd explained myself to you here, but have now made a dummy edit with explanation. {{wrongsummary}} doesn't seem to match the situation of leaving an automatic edit summary, as it suggests a positive choice of inappropriate words. "Revert" is a neutral term and implies nothing. Yes, I suppose multiple "Undo"s would have worked. PamD 21:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
New Pages Patrol newsletter April 2024
Hello PamD,
Backlog update: The October drive reduced the article backlog from 11,626 to 7,609 and the redirect backlog from 16,985 to 6,431! Congratulations to Schminnte, who led with over 2,300 points.
Following that, New Page Patrol organized another backlog drive for articles in January 2024. The January drive started with 13,650 articles and reduced the backlog to 7,430 articles. Congratulations to JTtheOG, who achieved first place with 1,340 points in this drive.
Looking at the graph, it seems like backlog drives are one of the only things keeping the backlog under control. Another backlog drive is being planned for May. Feel free to participate in the May backlog drive planning discussion.
It's worth noting that both queues are gradually increasing again and are nearing 14,034 articles and 22,540 redirects. We encourage you to keep contributing, even if it's just a single patrol per day. Your support is greatly appreciated!
2023 Awards
Onel5969 won the 2023 cup with 17,761 article reviews last year - that's an average of nearly 50/day. There was one Platinum Award (10,000+ reviews), 2 Gold Awards (5000+ reviews), 6 Silver (2000+), 8 Bronze (1000+), 30 Iron (360+) and 70 more for the 100+ barnstar. Hey man im josh led on redirect reviews by clearing 36,175 of them. For the full details, see the Awards page and the Hall of Fame. Congratulations everyone for their efforts in reviewing!
WMF work on PageTriage: The WMF Moderator Tools team and volunteer software developers deployed the rewritten NewPagesFeed in October, and then gave the NewPagesFeed a slight visual facelift in November. This concludes most major work to Special:NewPagesFeed, and most major work by the WMF Moderator Tools team, who wrapped up their major work on PageTriage in October. The WMF Moderator Tools team and volunteer software developers will continue small work on PageTriage as time permits.
Recruitment: A couple of the coordinators have been inviting editors to become reviewers, via mass-messages to their talk pages. If you know someone who you'd think would make a good reviewer, then a personal invitation to them would be great. Additionally, if there are Wikiprojects that you are active on, then you can add a post there asking participants to join NPP. Please be careful not to double invite folks that have already been invited.
Reviewing tip: Reviewers who prefer to patrol new pages within their most familiar subjects can use the regularly updated NPP Browser tool.
Reminders:
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Leeds Wikipedia meetup on Saturday 4th May
Hello there! Interested in having a chat with fellow Wikipedians? There's a meetup in Leeds on Saturday 4th May 2024, at the Tiled Hall Café at Leeds Central Library.
You're receiving this one-off message as you're either a member of WikiProject Yorkshire, you've expressed an interest in a previous Leeds meetup years ago, or (for about 4 of you), we've met :)
I plan to organise more in future, so if you'd like to be notified next time, please say so over on the meetup page.
Please also invite any Wikimedia people you know (or have had wiki dealings with) – spread the word! Hope to see you there.
20:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind words
Hi PamD, thank you for your kind words in the NPP discussion. I worry that accessibility to Wikipedia is harmed by “bloat”, both in the increasing level of technical skills expected, and in the discussions of how WP operates.
That chart really pinged my meter, as you appreciated. I got the bot/message a month ago and was bothered by it. I thought I would just ignore it, as hey-man-I’m-Josh suggested, but I kept coming back to it. I finally concluded that if it was bothering me that much, I should give some feedback on why it had turned me off from volunteering.
I don’t have much by way of technical skills, and I find it intimidating to do much on WP besides working on content. That flowchart just confirmed for me that I should stick to content. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:19, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
New page patrol May 2024 Backlog drive
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Books & Bytes – Issue 62
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 62, March – April 2024
- IEEE and Haaretz now available
- Let's Connect Clinics about The Wikipedia Library
- Spotlight and Wikipedia Library tips
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Spinney Hill
I have seen your email . I am afraid I am not. Both my parents had sisters but they died without having had children so I have no first cousins. Thanks for your help on lakhs. Spinney Hill (talk) 14:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I just wondered: "Spinney Hill", in the East Midlands was an aunt's home where we celebrated my grandmother's 80th birthday many years ago, and one of the cousins who lived there went on to be a solicitor. Strange coincidences! Thanks for getting back to me. PamD 14:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Spinney Hill is just the district of Northampton I live in. Spinney Hill (talk) 14:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Morning
@PamD: Morning. scope_creepTalk 08:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
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--Lajmmoore (talk 06:17, 28 April 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging
The Outward Bound (painting) and Leeds meetup
Well, that was fun. Having enjoyed a splendid Wikipedia meetup in Leeds with @Jonathan Deamer, Storye book, and ColinFine: and a low-profile vandal-fighter who I won't name, I wandered into the adjacent Leeds Art Gallery wondering whether a favourite painting was on show. A staff member I talked to, who'd been talking very knowledgeably about a Victorian painting to some other visitors, didn't seem to have heard of it although it used to be on display in the entrance hall, and directed me to the ArtUK database for any information.
So there is now information about The Outward Bound (painting) in the articles on artist Frederick Cayley Robinson, violinist Wallace Hartley in whose memory it was commissioned and donated, and Cultural legacy of the Titanic (not sure if that's the optimal Titanic-related placement but it needs to be around there somewhere), because Hartley was the violinist and bandleader who went down with the ship. The painting is quite moving: first you see a young lad looking out to sea, perhaps hoping to be "Outward Bound" himself some day... then you count the funnels, or read the inscription, and realise it's not just any old liner, it's the Titanic, which puts a quite different spin on it. And unfortunately it doesn't seem to be on display at present.
It was good to meet you all, hope your later plans for the day/weekend all went well. @Lajmmoore: we were sorry you couldn't make it. The Wray Scarecrow Festival I was talking about is here, and is worth a visit: always May Day bank holiday weekend and the previous week and weekend. Happy editing! PamD 09:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- It was great to meet you all, too. And thank you, Professor PamD, for the good advice on WP stuff - it's always great to exchange ideas. Storye book (talk) 09:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- I was so sad to miss it too @PamD - hopefully another will be sorted when I am in Leeds! I'm so glad it went well, kudos to @Jonathan Deamer Lajmmoore (talk) 19:41, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- Was great to meet you @PamD, @Storye book! Will be sure to ping you about the next one...and I'm bring a sign as well, inspired by Pam ;) Jonathan Deamer (talk) 19:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- I enjoyed the meet, and was glad to meet you all. And Come From Away was outstanding, and everything my friends had told me. Our concert in the evening, at Masham parish church also went very well. ColinFine (talk) 20:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Lancaster
Hi before you revert the collage again. A discussion has been opened on the talk page for Lancaster to discuss any photo changes so feel free to discuss there. Please leave the collage as is until a agreed collage is met thanks 👍DragonofBatley (talk) 10:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
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Orphaned non-free image File:Ballet Black logo 2020.png
Thanks for uploading File:Ballet Black logo 2020.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
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Awards article
Do you know how many minimum awards must won to have a separate awards article for an actor? 103.154.37.177 (talk) 12:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, I just didn't think it seemed appropriate in that case. PamD 15:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- For talk page watchers: see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of awards and nominations received by Rashmika Mandanna. PamD 15:55, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- I just want to know the number for my knowledge. If you know please tell. Thanks. 103.166.245.97 (talk) 13:05, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- There is no specific number, as far as I know. Please discuss this at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of awards and nominations received by Rashmika Mandanna. I have no interest in actresses' awards lists in general, was only alerted to that AfD when I saw it on Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Article alerts.
- You could discuss it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Awards, where there are people interested in awards who may have views. PamD 13:19, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Concern regarding Draft:Sonder (band)
Hello, PamD. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Sonder (band), a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.
If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- The unsourced content which I draftified was created by two IP editors. The redirect I created remains. PamD 17:45, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of Hanoi International School, 2014.png
Thanks for uploading File:Logo of Hanoi International School, 2014.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 04:32, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
Boy With The Boot location
Hey - I see you added the Stockholm, Sweden and Caracas, Venezuela location because of a 14 year old letter to the editor.
Stockholm used to have a statue but I contacted the restaurant a year and a half ago and they don't have the statue. I also contacted a business owner in Svappavaara, Sweden (a town of less than 500 people). He had no knowledge of a statue.
Should these locations really be listed / mentioned if there is no proof they exist?
I ask this, as a person who has traveled to several locations only to be turned away or denied access. I'd hate for people to go on wild goose chases (as I almost did - last time I was in Sweden).
It looks like you do a lot of Wiki editing so I'd be interested in your take. I personally don't think a 'letter to the editor' should be used as proof of existence. The letter doesn't offer any source and makes me think they just copped that information from the previous Wiki article.
Let me know your thoughts. SoupCanHand (talk) 17:11, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- @SoupCanHand Thanks for taking an interest in the article. I'm sorry if you've had wasted journeys. The letter to the editor of 1975 cannot have sourced its information from our 2009 Wikipedia article, but I've tweaked our article to make it clearer that it was just one report. I'm contacting the author of the "Obscure Vermont" blog to ask about his sources, as it sounds as if there is even more info, or speculation, out there! PamD 09:56, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Grantley Hall Page
Hello Pam,
Grantley Hall page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grantley_Hall
The image of Grantley Hall should be dated or replaced with a current image. As this is a very old image it can be missleading as it does not currently look like that.
This is an image that is avaibale to use if you do not wish to date the first image: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j969lgv37o82y5z23l8w8/Tom-Sykes-image.jpg?rlkey=5np32k1oqmic27hqcdsiufz35&st=fv021fg8&dl=0
Thank you
Jade 82.31.227.237 (talk) 20:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hallo Jade, I guess that you might work at the hotel, in which case please read WP:COI and WP:PAID. You may or may not be the same anonymous editor who added text which was not present in the reference immediately following, creating a misleading impression that the addition was sourced.
- I have dated the existing image as you requested, and added a little more, properly sourced, content about the hotel. Please note that nothing should be added to a Wikipedia article unless it can be supported by reliable independent published sources - in fact using the hotel's own website for its history is shading things somewhat but OK for plain facts like the date it opened.
- No we cannot include an image provided via dropbox. If anyone who owns the copyright of an image wants to upload it they should use the "Upload file" option available on the edit menu, PamD 22:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Driving by - nice work on the gardens, but what we want for the main pic is a daylight image centred on a main facade, which I suspect (if only because of listings) won't look that different from the current one, but be of better quality. Johnbod (talk) 13:25, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
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New UK MP articles
If you're thinking of creating new articles for newly-elected UK MPs in the next few hours... you might find useful a Boilerplate outline I've created at User:PamD/MP. It reminds you of some of the standard useful infrastructure. PamD 18:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Nomination of List of fictional British and Irish universities for deletion
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional British and Irish universities until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.Eva Leigh (artist) - stub
Hi Pam. I hope this finds you well? A little while ago you told me that you were experienced in creating stubs. Well I am not experienced thus, so please would you kindly run your eye over the above? I am aware that there is a lot of research currently going on (by the Mercer Art Gallery and by a PhD), about this artist, and that at least one book is planned. So I have created the stub with a minimum amount of material that is well and truly in the public domain, and await the forthcoming book(s) and a later expansion of the stub by others (or me, if they don't pony up with the book). So I was hoping you might kindly glance at it and let me know if I need to do any more to confirm notability or whatever? Hope that's OK. Storye book (talk) 20:00, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hallo @Storye book good to hear from you. I'm not sure that Eva will survive as an article: it doesn't really look as if she passes notability. I thought "Perhaps she could have a section, or at least a mention, in Mercer Art Gallery, but then found that that doesn't exist - even as a redirect to the very brief mention in Harrogate#Montpellier_Quarter (but not in Harrogate#Culture where I looked for it!) When the forthcoming book appears, that would be very useful to substantiate her notability. She isn't in https://artuk.org, and doesn't seem to have any mentions beyond the very local. Did any national or even regional newspapers review the exhibition of her work? Did the Mercer's booklet have an ISBN, or is its full text available online anywhere? The Mercer doesn't seem to have its own website, I can only find a basic facts listing at https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/leisure-tourism-and-culture/museums-and-galleries/museums-harrogate-area/mercer-art-gallery and its Facebook page.
- It might be useful to create an article about the gallery, or at least a section on it in Harrogate, where you could include some info about Leigh.
- As yet she doesn't seem to meet WP:NARTIST convincingly, but it all depends on the randomness of whether some deletionist happens to come across the article! I added a source I found which might or might not be considered a WP:RS. Good luck. PamD 07:28, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you very much for that, Pam. Yes, that is why they are both writing books (at least Young definitely is, the Mercer book is hearsay so far). There is currently a bit of a song and dance about the fact that Leigh is a "new discovery" to them, which is why you found little in the Media, and why I am waiting for the book. Apparently, some time within the last year or so, the gallery suddenly had a large set of drawings dumped on them, along with some papers or whatever, which enabled the beginning of the research. From there, they are still finding more information. I attended a public lecture on this artist some days ago at Harrogate Library, and that was the first I had heard about it. The art itself exists alright: I saw it in the gallery. I should add that I have no personal connection whatsoever with the research on the artist, with the gallery, or with the author Young. I'm just an onlooker. I am sure that when the book comes out, it will be possible to make a decent article of it. I shall keep an eye open for a local newspaper review of the exhibition. Storye book (talk)
- I've just had a look at WP:NARTIST#Creative professionals. She does fit 4(b) in that she currently has an exhibition dedicated entirely to her only, and the exhibition fills several rooms near the gallery entrance.. Also 4(d): most of the works in the exhibition are part of the gallery's permanent collection. Those facts are in the article, and cited. No doubt further items in collections will surface in due course. Storye book (talk) 09:44, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Storye book But 4b talks about "significant exhibition", and 4d "notable gallery", so outside reviews of the exhibition, and better coverage of the Mercer Gallery, would both be useful in demonstrating her notability. PamD 19:30, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- And 4d says "several", so the Mercer alone doesn't meet it. PamD 19:32, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Bother. That means I have to do an article on the Mercer Gallery. That will not be difficult as I have sources to hand, but it will have to be second in the queue, as I'm currently 3/4 of the way through creating another article. It so happens that I have already notified a major regional newspaper of the Eva Leigh exhibition, though, and suggested that they review it. They have reviewed exhibitions at the Mercer in the past, so fingers crossed. Thank you so much for your support and suggestions. I have always been nervous of creating stubs, but now I am learning. Storye book (talk) 09:14, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- Mercer Art Gallery done, and linked in the above stub. Thank you for the advice on that. It turns out that the gallery is indeed notable, and it has plenty of "what links here"s. Storye book (talk) 08:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Impressive! Your usual thoroughness, as compared to my stubs. I've added it to the dab page at Mercer and added Sidney to the surname page at Mercer (surname). Well done - it seems that the article was way overdue!
- Should the Grade II listed status be in the infobox? Not sure whether it's a standard field for museums but it ought to be possible to shoehorn it in there somehow? And maybe in the lead "Lower Harrogate's grade II liste Old Town Hall"?
- I've spent too much time in the last week on MPs and constituencies. One incentive to stay up till all hours last Friday was that I had an oven-ready draft for the person I hoped would be my new MP, and indeed I moved it to mainspace at 05:10 as soon as I saw the result! A lot of effort would be saved if we had some sort of uniform approach to creating new MP articles, and reporting on election results (and boundary changes), but meanwhile, given the collegial anarchy of Wikipedia, I've been randomly improving articles I'm interested in or have come across. All good fun, but I'm way behindhand with a lot of real life stuff (have just switched off Radio4, sacrificing The Archers, to get various things done before a day in front the television for Wimbledon and football, but I seem to be letting myself get distracted.)
- Must go. Happy Editing, and congratulations on a splendid article on the gallery. I'm glad to have had a tiny part in its creation. PamD 10:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your support. It is much appreciated. I had not thought of using Sidney Agnew Mercer in a redirect - well done! Storye book (talk) 10:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Mercer Art Gallery done, and linked in the above stub. Thank you for the advice on that. It turns out that the gallery is indeed notable, and it has plenty of "what links here"s. Storye book (talk) 08:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Bother. That means I have to do an article on the Mercer Gallery. That will not be difficult as I have sources to hand, but it will have to be second in the queue, as I'm currently 3/4 of the way through creating another article. It so happens that I have already notified a major regional newspaper of the Eva Leigh exhibition, though, and suggested that they review it. They have reviewed exhibitions at the Mercer in the past, so fingers crossed. Thank you so much for your support and suggestions. I have always been nervous of creating stubs, but now I am learning. Storye book (talk) 09:14, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- And 4d says "several", so the Mercer alone doesn't meet it. PamD 19:32, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Storye book But 4b talks about "significant exhibition", and 4d "notable gallery", so outside reviews of the exhibition, and better coverage of the Mercer Gallery, would both be useful in demonstrating her notability. PamD 19:30, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Sonder (band)
Hello, PamD. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Sonder".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 16:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Books & Bytes – Issue 63
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 63, May – June 2024
- One new partner
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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
The Signpost: 22 July 2024
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I am just expanding and improving the article Murugan in order to make it a good article on Wikipedia by removing the redirect and typos in it and adding good and accurate content there but you are reverting my good faith edits always. I am telling you to not revert them for this reason and let me improve and expand that article. 2409:40F4:2B:E3F7:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 05:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- @2409:40F4:2B:E3F7:8000:0:0:0 You seem to be creating a second article about Kartikeya. Where a deity has multiple names, Wikipedia redirects all but one name to a single article. If you are writing about a different topic called "Murugan", you need to make this clear in the lead sentence. PamD 05:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- However, there is no draft in Wikipedia named Draft:Murugan for me to edit and improve into a good article through. You can make the article Murugan to be a draft now and i will edit and improve that to an acceptable state and then you make it an article. 120.56.171.3 (talk) 17:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- So, i will edit and improve that Murugan article now itself by myself and improve it into a good article and release it into the mainspace. 120.56.171.3 (talk) 17:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @120.56.171.3 You can register as an editor and create Draft:Murugan yourself. Remember that every statement needs a reliable independent published source. PamD 17:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
The article List of marginal seats before the 2024 United Kingdom general election has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
See the notability concerns below and the discussion of the recent move request, particularly the fact that the term 'marginal' is not well defined in this context in the UK, and the contention that, if the word 'target' is used instead, that every seat would required a reference.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. YorkshireExpat (talk) 16:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Time userbox
Your time userbox is showing the wrong TZ. I haven't investigated this as I never edit other people's user pages on principle, but you may want to look at it when you have a moment. Ef80 (talk) 17:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's now showing the correct time. No idea what's going on. --Ef80 (talk) 17:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, there's something odd about it - if you come across a better time userbox anywhere, do let me know! Thanks. PamD 17:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
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Hi PamD. LinkedIn is not ok. It is non-rs and you keep using as though it is a valid secondary source. Its not. It a social media site and anything written by the person himself is WP:PRIMARY. scope_creepTalk 08:05, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- It should never be used in any WP:BLP in any instance. It a really poor choice to construct an article. scope_creepTalk 08:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Scope creep The chain of links from WP:PRIMARY led me to WP:SELFPUB, which I read as allowing use of the subject's own LinkedIn page for simple hard facts like studies and previous employment, though it would not be used to establish notability. PamD 11:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- To be more precise: WP:ABOUTSELF. PamD 11:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- Your rationalising it. I don't understand why those folk, wikipedia editor states such nonsense as though its valid. It shows a level of earnestness, ignorance and to a certain extent innocence that is not reflected in reality. Folk lie through their teeth all the time, particularly on social media sites. Their whole psychology is bent out of shape and that alters their perception leading them down paths in any other situation wouldn't happen. That is a known fact. Not a single line text is valid source. Even about a month and a half, two months ago there was a report in the times about folk on LinkedIn using AI to jack up their profiles. It so predominant and so widespread the site doesn't know what to do about it. I would sincerely like you not to use it. All its doing is adding work that needs to fixed later by somebody else, damaging the article in the short term and lowering the quality of the article in the present. If this was a new editor I would have moved that article to draft. It is a really poor choice. scope_creepTalk
- @Scope creep: I don't know what you mean by "rationalising". I am following the policy set out at WP:ABOUTSELF. I do not believe that it damages the quality of an article about an MP or a highly-regarded actuary, to WP:AGF and use their own LinkedIn page for checkable statements about their academic degrees and past employment. People in positions like that have too much to lose to consider "jacking up their profiles". We're not talking about some wannabe startup entrepreneur who might be tempted to inflate their profile. PamD 14:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- Your comment above, is what rationalising means. I'm not talking about some entrepreneur. The evidence is clear is day on this, even with people in power and if you looked, you'd find it. It happens all the time, and you can't mame an objective decision based on it, because you don't who is lying and who is not, until they are discovered (that is the real source, because its secondary). The whole thing is entirely subjective. Its the human condition, yet your rationalising it, that its somehow ok because the policy says so, even when its written by people who don't have a clue about it and honestly don't care. Using social media in this manner is one the biggest burden on Wikipedia editors time, to clean these article up. scope_creepTalk 15:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- Please do not continue to "clean up" my policy-based edits. You have your opinions, but WP:ABOUTSELF is policy. Removing content without policy-based reason is disruptive editing. PamD 15:24, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- Your comment above, is what rationalising means. I'm not talking about some entrepreneur. The evidence is clear is day on this, even with people in power and if you looked, you'd find it. It happens all the time, and you can't mame an objective decision based on it, because you don't who is lying and who is not, until they are discovered (that is the real source, because its secondary). The whole thing is entirely subjective. Its the human condition, yet your rationalising it, that its somehow ok because the policy says so, even when its written by people who don't have a clue about it and honestly don't care. Using social media in this manner is one the biggest burden on Wikipedia editors time, to clean these article up. scope_creepTalk 15:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Scope creep: I don't know what you mean by "rationalising". I am following the policy set out at WP:ABOUTSELF. I do not believe that it damages the quality of an article about an MP or a highly-regarded actuary, to WP:AGF and use their own LinkedIn page for checkable statements about their academic degrees and past employment. People in positions like that have too much to lose to consider "jacking up their profiles". We're not talking about some wannabe startup entrepreneur who might be tempted to inflate their profile. PamD 14:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- Your rationalising it. I don't understand why those folk, wikipedia editor states such nonsense as though its valid. It shows a level of earnestness, ignorance and to a certain extent innocence that is not reflected in reality. Folk lie through their teeth all the time, particularly on social media sites. Their whole psychology is bent out of shape and that alters their perception leading them down paths in any other situation wouldn't happen. That is a known fact. Not a single line text is valid source. Even about a month and a half, two months ago there was a report in the times about folk on LinkedIn using AI to jack up their profiles. It so predominant and so widespread the site doesn't know what to do about it. I would sincerely like you not to use it. All its doing is adding work that needs to fixed later by somebody else, damaging the article in the short term and lowering the quality of the article in the present. If this was a new editor I would have moved that article to draft. It is a really poor choice. scope_creepTalk
- To be more precise: WP:ABOUTSELF. PamD 11:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Scope creep The chain of links from WP:PRIMARY led me to WP:SELFPUB, which I read as allowing use of the subject's own LinkedIn page for simple hard facts like studies and previous employment, though it would not be used to establish notability. PamD 11:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- It should never be used in any WP:BLP in any instance. It a really poor choice to construct an article. scope_creepTalk 08:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
Barnstar
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The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | |
| I was reading an article from quora which says Senior Wikipedia editors are unwelcoming and hateful which you proved wrong. Thanks you very much for going extra mile to edit and adjust the pages I created and for your constructive comments on how to continue on Wikipedia. Much love!!!Amistkilo (talk) 13:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
- Thank you @Amistkilo: I try to be helpful. (But please don't forget to fix that second sentence of Scott Zeron which doesn't yet make sense!) PamD 13:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I will fix it. Thanks you! Amistkilo (talk) 13:15, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
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September 2024 at Women in Red
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Mayor of London
It's not just WP that puts "Mayor" in lower case when preceded by a modifier: go to google.com and search for site:thetimes.com "former mayor of london", or theguardian.com, which provides similar results. Happy editing! Chris the speller yack 14:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Chris the speller I still think it looks better with "M", but even my favourite style guide uses "m" so it's not a hill I'm bothered about fighting on! We are gloriously inconsistent, even when its not preceded by a modifier - search Wikipedia on "mayor London" to see. PamD 15:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
The Signpost: 4 September 2024
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A bowl of strawberries for you!
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Thank you for helping me with your suggestions to make my articles better. Strawberries are especially sweet in late May/June and again at this time of year. Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 09:57, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
Thank you, @Allthemilescombined1: we enjoyed some just yesterday, though the UK-grown season is coming to an end! Happy to help - and Patti Varol was an interesting read. PamD 10:06, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Books & Bytes – Issue 64
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 64, July – August 2024
- The Hindu Group joins The Wikipedia Library
- Wikimania presentation
- New user script for easily searching The Wikipedia Library
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --16:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Trinidad and Tobago writers by century indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz Read! Talk! 04:12, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
my story
Hi, if you get a chance, could you look at what I wrote on my User Page and tell me if it makes sense, needs more explanation, or is just too corny and needs a serious rewrite? Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 01:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- It's an interesting read, but if you're going to list your favourite fun edits, it might be better to link to the "diff" where you made the edit - eg "Added that Akwafina's stage name refers to her self-perception as 'awkwardly fine'."
- I'm really glad, myself, that I've kept a log right from the start of all the articles I've created and why - as you can see, it varies from "for WiR editathon..." through "to resolve a red link in ...", to "heard about it on radio, seems notable". Without that list I sometimes wouldn't have a clue why I started a stub 15 years ago for some topic. It needn't be on my user page, but I've always kept it there.
- Happy Editing! PamD 20:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you! Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 22:15, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Short Decent Stubs
Hello @PamDhow are you? I remembered you helped me with my first published page :-) Thank you.
You also said you made short decent stubs of topics and I wondered if there was a video tutorial on how to do this? I get come across lots of useful topics during my writing work but I don't have the time to do full pages.
It is really frustrating! The Nookster (talk) 09:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hallo again @The Nookster. I can't think of any particular tutorial (there may be good stuff out there but I'm not familiar with it all), but a few key points, apart from the stuff I said before, would be:
- Check thoroughly that there isn't already an article on the topic. Check variant names you find in any sources. Even if you're going to start the article in draft, act as if you're going to start it in mainspace and look to see whether any message pops up about it being deleted in the past - sometimes it'll be because AfD decided it wasn't notable, but other times because the person who started it was then blocked as a sockpuppet, or because it was entirely Copyright theft, leaving it free to be re-created. It can be useful to follow the "What links here" link too, to see if it's been discussed anywhere, or linked from other articles.
- If there is already an article at the title you want to use, work out how to disambiguate the new one, by adding "(writer)" or whatever.
- Be sure that the topic satisfies WP:Notability. Some categories of topics are more-or-less automatically notable, like members of a national parliament etc (SEE WP:NPOL) or legally-recognised populated places; there are special rules for academics at WP:NPROF; and so on.
- Be sure you have at least 2, preferably 3, Reliable independent published sources. These don't have to be online, eg if you have a book in front of you or a newspaper clipping which shows the newspaper, date and page as well as the article title, but online sources are popular as they can be more easily verified.
- If you meet the criteria, use The Wikipedia Library for access to all sorts of wonderful online sources.
- Even just for a stub, remember to make clear in the first sentence why we should be interested in the topic: "X (dates) is a Y-ish Z" and their main claim to notability.
- Actually, something you might find helpful is the template I use, at User:PamD/sandbox#Bio stub starter - I use it to remind myself of the basic infrastructure. "In use" stays for the duration of the editing session, and "Under construction" for up to a week if still working on it. Just copy and paste that outline, and it'll be a start.
- And write. Use surname only, after the lead; source everything; tell us why she/he or it is notable. Remember it's an international encyclopedia, so main placenames need initially to specify "England", and terms like "BBC" aren't necessarily obvious to the reader.
- If the article would benefit from an infobox, find a good article on the same sort of topic and see which of the umpteen "Infobox" templates has been used there, then follow.
- Edit carefully, check that all the links go where you expect them to (and not to a disambiguation page, or a footballer where you're expecting a physicist, or whatever), read through for typos, check that punctuation is in front of references, that you haven't used "curly" quotes/apostrophes, etc
- And create a basic talk page with a couple of relevant WikiProject banners, including the appropriate Women in Red one (if nothing specific, then WIR|293 for "#1day1woman".
- Make incoming redirects from all plausible versions of the name (married / middle / versions found in sources), to help readers and to help prevent someone else from creating a duplicate. If at this point you find a duplicate, and it's definitely the same person, then stop. Add your new content, if any, to that article. If you're convinced it's at the wrong title, then suggest a move using the Request Move process. Don't copy and paste anyone else's work to a new title. The first-created article takes precedence, even if it's poorly-written and at the wrong title.
- If your title has a disambiguation, like "(writer)", then be sure that it is listed at the basic title, whether this is by adding or expanding a hatnote, adding an entry on a talk page, or if need be creating a new disambiguation page. By whatever means, you need to make sure that the reader looking for the topic will be able to find it!
- Well, I hope some of that lot helps - rather random jottings while listening to the Sunday omnibus of The Archers! Happy Editing! PamD 11:06, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at your user page : I see you're a professional "content creator", so you need to be familiar with Wikipedia's rules about WP:COI and WP:PAID, if you're considering editing for pay.
- I see also that you've marked a lot of contributions as "minor", although sometimes they include adding new text as here. Some editors get very upset about that: minor is supposed to be only very, very, minor: slight formatting changes, very obvious typo fix, etc. See Help:Minor for more info. I don't bother marking anything as "minor", myself. PamD 11:16, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hello again @PamD yes I know about the paid for content ethics and agree whole-heartedly with them. I've been a sporadic Wikipedian! I love the project so much :-) It makes me really happy being an editor on here too. A real delight to see some little fact appear and help in my own small way to the knowledge bank. I hope to be able to do more when I'm old and stuck in front of the fire! Hope The Archers was good! I'm more of a desert island discs person at the moment. Thanks for the note on minor contributions. Will never mark anything as a minor edit from now... The Nookster (talk) 11:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @PamD thanks for all this. Hopefully I will be able to contribute a bit more in smaller chunks :-) The Nookster (talk) 11:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- PS Just having a good look at this and the bio stub starter is really useful, thanks @PamD The Nookster (talk) 18:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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Improving user page
Thank you for showing me how to add revision links to my user page! That was fun. Do I need to secure my user page from vandalism? Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Allthemilescombined1: No, unless you find it becomes a target for vandalism in which case you could ask for protection. Personally I don't see why unregistered or unconfirmed users are allowed to edit anyone's user page, but it rarely happens. PamD 20:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Women in Red October 2024
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--Lajmmoore (talk 08:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging
The redirect The center for teaching and learning has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 30 § The center for teaching and learning until a consensus is reached. Skynxnex (talk) 17:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
Hello PamD. Would you be happy to give me some assistance here please: Talk:Zonca Thanks, Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:53, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- ... and see here User talk:Shhhnotsoloud#Zonca for context. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:55, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've tried! There seems to be a history of getting things not quite right around Zonca. PamD 11:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Many thanks. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:06, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've tried! There seems to be a history of getting things not quite right around Zonca. PamD 11:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
Elder Wikipedians
My proposal to make extensive changes to WikiProject Wikipedians aged 70 and older was a bust, primarily because many users felt that the term "Senior Wikipedian" implied a higher ranking Wikipedia membership. Therefore, I am making two less ambitious proposals:
- Proposal #1. Change the name of "WikiProject Wikipedians aged 70 and older" to "WikiProject Elder Wikipedians".
- Proposal #2. Drop the minimum age requirement to 60 years.
Please respond to Elder Wikipedians and let us know what you think of each of these proposals.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:32, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
Asking for help
I'm a beginner on Wikipedia and my article was nominated for deletion. Could you please help me? I put some effort into it. I tried my best to meet the Wikipedia's Guidelines. Here's the discussion: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jamila_Musayeva Mlody1312 (talk) 09:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
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Nomination of A Comedy of Terrors for deletion
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Comedy of Terrors until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.Louise Glover
I don't think you understand this particular edit. I realized almost all of the "multiple references" used were, in fact, the same article posted without credit throughout the internet (so, functionally, the same reference). I found an article that at least appears to give credit, and used that in a way that made it transparent that it was the same article/reference. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 13:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- @I dream of horses But if you reduce it all to one local paper, "Former nude Playboy model and Loughton resident ...", it gives a very different impression. And not all the detail is present in each version: the first ref (though its date looks dubious, I admit) is the one which gives detail of the two previous incidents. Given that someone wants to delete the article altogether, making this section appear as if "only the local paper covered it, no wider interest" seems a step to the section being deleted completely. The very fact of coverage in several sources (Mirror, Sky, and two separate articles in the Brighton paper), seems significant. PamD 13:56, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- @PamD The AfD is over now. The article isn't getting deleted. if the section were deleted, it might actually be more compliant with the BLP policy, anyways. The first article having dubious is actually a reason to not use it. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 14:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- @PamD In regard to that section though, is the subject of the article really still a high-profile individual? I agree that notability has been established. But, if the subject is low-profile, then only information directly relevant to their notability should be included per the BLP guidelines. The criminal convictions aren't relevant to their original reason for notability. They may have been a high-profile individual at the time, but that can change. "Many Wikipedia articles contain material on people who are not well known, regardless of whether they are notable enough for their own article. In such cases, exercise restraint and include only material relevant to the person's notability, focusing on high-quality secondary sources." and "Material that may adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special care". Svenska356 (talk) 15:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Svenska356 I guess I take a more moderate approach, in that a few, well-sourced sentences about a criminal conviction at the end of an article isn't going to tarnish Glovers' reputation enough to justify a potentially prolonged argument. We could, potentially, even go down to one sentence: "Glover was convicted of assaulting a DJ. [inline citation]" After all, the assault and resulting criminal issues did happen, and it's not defamation to point that out.
- The problem is the apparent determination that any shortening of the article could very well result in the deletion of it. On a website where stubbification is not a form of deletion but rather an alternative to deletion*, that doesn't make sense.
- (*As an aside, I'm surprised stubbification isn't listed on WP:ATD. I've used it as an alternative to deletion several times; basically, a milder form of WP:TNT). I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 17:26, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @I dream of horses @Svenska356:, this discussion should be visible to all on the article's talk page not scattered around many User talk pages. But I'm surprised that editors trying to minimise the negative aspects of her story haven't done much to include the positive ( a chunk of which was recently removed). I had a go this morning. PamD 17:52, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- Good point. Maybe we should continue on Talk:Louise Glover and link to the other discussions. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 17:55, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @PamD I agree that it should be added to the talk page. Sorry, that was my bad in terms of my attempted addition. I am not too experienced when it comes to doing that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Svenska356 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- Context to above post: this entire section had been copied and pasted to Talk:Louise Glover with no explanation to show that it was not native to that page: I reverted. PamD 14:32, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- @I dream of horses @Svenska356:, this discussion should be visible to all on the article's talk page not scattered around many User talk pages. But I'm surprised that editors trying to minimise the negative aspects of her story haven't done much to include the positive ( a chunk of which was recently removed). I had a go this morning. PamD 17:52, 24 October 2024 (UTC)