Panicale

Welcome!

Hello, Panicale! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! — Masum Ibn Musa  Conversation 11:34, 2 January 2018 (UTC) Getting Started Contributing to Wikipedia The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Tip of the day Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community (The Signpost) Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Joel Agee

Your page and references look good to me.Vincelord (talk) 16:33, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

It looks generally good to me, too, but I can see where others might be a tad concerned - there's no inline reference for the end sentences on the two paragraphs under "Early life", for instance, nor a reference for "Career".

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's well-referenced enough to me that I doubt anyone will care that much. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:19, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about it. There's always going to be someone who wants more references...alternatively, you can always remove the template yourself. Personally, I don't tend to bother with templates in the first place, not much. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 20:03, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

License tagging for File:US214758-drawings-page-1.png

Thanks for uploading File:US214758-drawings-page-1.png. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 05:30, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. I believe I added the correct tag, hopefully in the right place. Perhaps you can let me know. Panicale (talk) 16:00, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Fillmore Condit

Hello Panicale,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Fillmore Condit for deletion, because it seems to be copied from another source, probably infringing copyright.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to rewrite it in your own words, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Josey Wales ^Parley 17:42, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

I have contested the deletion. I presume you will be able to read the reason I gave. I can only guess that the "other source" I supposedly copied was the one I wrote for my great-grandfather, Fillmore Condit in findagrave (I also supplied a summary for him in Wikitree). For Wikipedia I made changes in the essay so that I could properly insert footnotes to support the statements. But the essay I had written was helpful to use as a base. Panicale (talk) 18:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I see the article has already been deleted, the copyright policies here are quite strict - the copyvio tool showed up this article which states "© 2022 by CHLB Foundation. All rights reserved" so that organisation would have to release the waiver to Wikipedia by email - some useful hints are at Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission if you wish to recreate the article and, of course you would be more than welcome to use that page (and your own essay as sources and compose the article with new wording that doesn't closely match the source). Many thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia Josey Wales ^Parley 19:03, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Would you explain more clearly how I am supposed to retrieve my article and reclaim copyright?? Panicale (talk) 19:05, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Am I supposed to "vary" my own words to make it sound different? That sounds preposterous. Can you explain which source of mine you had thought was the culprit (wikitree or findagrave or?). Panicale (talk) 19:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) When you post anything to Wikipedia you release it for anyone in the world to reuse it, either unchanged or modified in any way whatever, subject to attribution to Wikipedia. You may or may not have intended to license the material for such free use, but another website on which substantially the same text appears has a copyright notice which says "All rights reserved", and we don't allow the unsubstantiated word of someone who has chosen to create a Wikipedia account to override the copyright notice where the material was previously published.

If you are connected to someone or something you have written about, such as a member of your family, then you should be aware that Wikipedia's conflict of interest guideline discourages you from writing about that subject. One of the main reasons for that is that experience over the years indicates that editors with such a connection to a subject they are writing about are likely to find it very difficult, or even impossible, to stand back from their writing and see how it will look from the detached perspective of an outsider, so that they often find it difficult to write neutrally, even if they intend to do so. You should look at that guideline before doing any more editing about your great grandfather. JBW (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

I do understand now the issue was deeper than I had originally imagined. When I created a profile for Fillmore Condit on Findagrave, I did use much of the wording from the biography of him at the Community Hospital Long Beach website, and obviously forgot to credit them. This is really surprising to me, as I have always credited obituaries on findagrave to the newspaper in which they appeared when I am using that kind of source. So I have added a credit to the findagrave article. And I will re-do my wikitree entry for Fillmore Condit, which was an early effort of mine, so it will be a good exercise to improve that article using in-line footnotes. AND I have disclosed my conflict of interest on my Panicale Talk page. AND I have re-written Fillmore Condit for Wikipedia, despite your warnings, to see if a great-granddaughter can somehow be accepted to write a "neutral" article that will be accepted. I am extremely happy that Wikipedia exists and do not wish to break any of its rules since I am so appreciative of everyone's efforts. Panicale (talk) 21:35, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

I am still really intrigued with this issue about the prose piece I originally submitted about Fillmore Condit two days ago. I was totally surprised to see the wording so similar on the Community Hospital Long Beach Foundation website. And chagrined. However, upon reflection, I really don't remember seeing this webpage before. So I'm starting to wonder if THEY might have used MY wording. I cannot prove this but can come close to proving it. The Findagrave profile I created for Fillmore Condit was done in 2004. Again, I can't prove I didn't just create his profile, and then added the prose later. But I had added it by 2012 because I have an email stored away from that year which refers to the text I had produced for Findagrave and supplied the link. So the question remains, when did the hospital foundation do that website? You see, the foundation has been around a long time. I wrote to its head yesterday asking if she knew who had written the article about Fillmore there. She said, "Hi Sharon – I’ve worked for the foundation for over 30 years.  The information on Fillmore Condit has just “been there” floating around the foundation and hospital.  I don’t know who created the verbiage but we included it on our website.  There’s nothing on our website that’s proprietary or copyrighted or anything like that.  The information on Fillmore Condit is public knowledge.  I think it’s a good thing our information matches!" So then I checked the Wayback machine for their website address. Wayback has collected "hits" on that website address "Saved 13 times between September 26, 2020 and January 15, 2023." So I think it's very possible they might have "collected" my version and used the wording on their website. I scanned both versions side by side. The sections that really seem like something I would say, and that no one else would know about, include the wording about his wife Ida insisting they move to California, and the sentence about Fillmore being a progressive man...and writing letters to newspapers wherever he lived. You see, over the years, I have been collecting letters Fillmore wrote to newspapers, many of them. This all doesn't really matter, but I am still holding onto this idea, because it just doesn't seem like me to not credit someone else's work. Thanks for listening. Panicale (talk) 20:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Fillmore Condit

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A tag has been placed on Fillmore Condit requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Tinton5 (talk) 03:16, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Fillmore Condit

Hello Liz,

Took me awhile to figure out how to write you. Your name popped up as the most recent Wikipedia person to contact re my Fillmore Condit article. I can see that the "speedy deletion" notice was removed, but wondered if that meant my article was now okay. Do I need to do anything more to validate or strengthen my original contest of the deletion?

What happened was a curious train of events.

My first article I did a few days ago was speedily deleted almost before I turned around! And it took me awhile to understand the objection. It appeared that the person who tagged it for speedy deletion thought (honestly) that I had plagiarized text I found on the Internet. When I went to the website that person had cited, I saw that the text was the same as mine. My first reaction was disbelief, then I thought I must have really "copied" it at some point. But the more I thought about it, the more I was convinced the text was really mine. You see, it is the text I created for Fillmore Condit's Findagrave profile. And that profile was created in 2004. I used the same text in 2012 (Feb. 10 2012 is the date of the post) for my genealogical wordpress website. There are also personal items in the text that I believe only I would know about, as he is my great-grandfather (I will get to that aspect in a moment...). So I checked the website that had the same text as mine, which was for a hospital foundation in Long Beach, California, and using the Wayback machine it appeared that the website only had hits from about 2020 onward. I even wrote to them, the contact person for the organization, who couldn't tell me who had written the biography, and said information about Condit was always "floating around."

Now I am a professional writer in the sense that 10 of my articles have appeared in The Genealogical Magazine of New Jersey. I am also a poet. I have no desire to populate Wikipedia with my relatives, however! This great-grandfather I felt was a good exercise to practice my skills on Wikipedia, but he is also an interesting man. He had appeared in two articles already listing mayors of Long Beach, California, and the article about the hospital he founded. Because I was not sure about the original text I had done (the one speedily deleted) I decided to start anew and phrase everything differently. Which is the current result. I feel good about my sources, and used them as completely as I could.

So I am just writing you to ask about the situation in general. I do understand the reluctance of Wikipedia to have people write about friends and relatives. However, sometimes a person like that might have more complete sources or know where to look, so I don't think that should always disqualify an article. I have tried to make the Fillmore Condit article sound as neutral as possible. So now maybe you can let me know, did I succeed? Will I continue to be looking over my shoulder, or do you think Fillmore can stay?

Thanks very much for your advice,

Sharon Olson aka Panicale

Panicale (talk) 04:43, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Fillmore Condit for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Fillmore Condit is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fillmore Condit until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Tinton5 (talk) 23:31, 22 January 2023 (UTC)