User talk:Paper9oll/Archive 14

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Off the Record Night

I am not sure if [1] being a redirect is the best way to go about creating a draft. Do you have a draft in place? I was about to send to RfD but I wanted to ask you first if there are any reasons why you created the redirect right now, when it breaks the "with possibilities" message on the target. Awesome Aasim 20:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Off the Record not Off the Record Night, not sure where the "night" even came from. I have the full draft in place (locally) however I have placed partially here. In addition, your rationale make zero sense when the song is redirect to mention. Not sure if this is your first time encounter song's article redirects however redirect to the album/EP is correct way. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I know the name of the song. I just quoted that catchy lyric in the title. :)

But I am wondering is a draft actually in the works? Because I can't figure out why that cross name space redirect was created in draft space to main space. Awesome Aasim 12:11, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Awesome Aasim Ah I see. Yes, the draft is "WIP" even though I already finished it locally so not exactly WIP however I haven't pasted the entire code here yet until the song has charted which estimated next week Monday or Tuesday earliest or Thursday the latest ... the redirect has been removed fyi. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll ナイス！Let's wait for that time... and this midnight conversation :D Awesome Aasim 12:52, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-41

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• One new wiki has been created: a Wikipedia in Fon (w:fon:) [2]

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 10 October. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 11 October. It will be on all wikis from 12 October (calendar).
• Starting on Wednesday, a new set of Wikipedias will get "Add a link" (Swahili Wikipedia, Walloon Wikipedia, Waray Wikipedia, Wolof Wikipedia, Kalmyk Wikipedia, Xhosa Wikipedia, Mingrelian Wikipedia, Yiddish Wikipedia, Yoruba Wikipedia, Zhuang Wikipedia, Zeelandic Wikipedia, Min Nan Wikipedia, Zulu Wikipedia). This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally. [3]
• At some wikis, newcomers are suggested images from Commons to add to articles without any images. Starting on Tuesday, newcomers at these wikis will be able to add images to unillustrated article sections. The specific wikis are listed under "Images recommendations" at the Growth team deployment table. You can learn more about this feature. [4]
• In the mobile web skin (Minerva) the CSS ID #page-actions will be replaced with #p-views. This change is to make it consistent with other skins and to improve support for gadgets and extensions in the mobile skin. A few gadgets may need to be updated; there are details and search-links in the task.

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MediaWiki message delivery 14:37, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Crash Landing On You (CLOY) episode summaries

The previous episode summaries for this K drama were flagged for being "excessively detailed." I have replaced them with new summaries that are more concise but not particularly short. They are all under 200 words but sometimes close to that upper limit. I hope I've avoided fancruft but doubt I've been entirely successful.

I'd like to remove the flag but think someone familiar with wikipedia guidelines should look at them first. This need not be you but perhaps you can suggest someone? I'm willing to make adjustments as needed.

Thanks again for your previous help with this process. Fhenle (talk) 19:56, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-42

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The Unified login system's edge login should now be fixed for some browsers (Chrome, Edge, Opera). This means that if you visit a new sister project wiki, you should be logged in automatically without the need to click "Log in" or reload the page. Feedback on whether it's working for you is welcome. [5]
• Edit notices are now available within the MobileFrontend/Minerva skin. This feature was inspired by the gadget on English Wikipedia. See more details in T316178.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 17 October. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 18 October. It will be on all wikis from 19 October (calendar).

Future changes

• In 3 weeks, in the Vector 2022 skin, code related to addPortletLink and #p-namespaces that was deprecated one year ago will be removed. If you notice tools that should appear next to the "Discussion" tab are then missing, please tell the gadget's maintainers to see instructions in the Phabricator task.

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Scoot

Fair enough. This has made me notice that the Scoot article is missing a list of the airline's actual incidents and accidents, though, if you're looking for something to edit. SurferSquall (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall As a Singaporean, I don't recalled Scoot having any actual accidents/incidents (i.e. fatal and/or hull loss and/or serious damage) inline with WP:AIRLINE-CONTENT. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

You’re correct, Scoot has has no serious incidents- but the lost nose wheel in Taipei is certainly worth mentioning. It’s unique, and fits in with other unique incidents mentioned in some airline articles SurferSquall (talk) 13:38, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall Can you provide three English Wikipedia articles as examples on "fits in with other unique incidents mentioned in some airline articles", thanks! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:40, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

From WP:AIRLINE-CONTENT… “The event resulted in changes to procedures, regulations or processes affecting airports, airlines or the aircraft industry” SurferSquall (talk) 18:20, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall Yes, AIRLINE-CONTENT stated that if so, what are the changes to procedures or regulations or processes for the Scoot incident that affected airports, airlines or the aircraft industry to prevent such incidents from happening again? And also, what is the difficulities encountered that prevented providing three English Wikipedia articles as examples as requested for references? — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I remembered reading something written by the Taipei Airports Authority about it. I can't find it. So I have nothing to add at the moment. SurferSquall (talk) 01:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Noted, thanks — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Reliable Sources

Here's the thing: I edited the article about Huh Yun-jin from Le Sserafim about her nationality being Korean-American. But you said that the source I used was not reliable. And I looked at the list of which sources were reliable or not for editing articles about Korean culture (Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Reliable sources), and the site I used as a source is not in either category (reliable or not). Can you tell me why the website I used was not reliable as a source? Because I'm going to tell you the truth: that list (Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Reliable sources), which I don't know if you created, is very outdated... 2804:14C:5B41:84B6:413D:D5E0:152C:66DD (talk) 15:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@2804:14C:5B41:84B6:413D:D5E0:152C:66DD Read the WP:RS guidelines/policies instead. Also, WP:KO/RS is created by the WP:KO community (clearly not me as it exists before I even started editing everyday) for any Korean-related articles in which Huh Yun-jin is of such. The list is still being updated every now and then by active volunteers (including me) in the WP:KO community hence isn't "very outdated" (quotes read as air quotes) as you thought. In addition, as stated clearly on the WP:KO/RS#Top, quote "For other generally reliable and unreliable sources, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources § Sources", and on WP:KO/RS#UR, quote "This list does not encompass all unreliable sites" hence you shouldn't rely mainly on just WP:KO/RS itself for this instance and/or WP:RSPSS, the correct procedure is to ensure the source(s) itself meets WP:RS followed by WP:RSPSS and/or WP:KO/RS. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Minor formatting error

On the List of hoaxes on Wikipedia, at the entry for “Transformatix”, the links to the archived version of the page and its deletion discussion are reversed, they should be in each other’s place. Please fix this. Thanks SurferSquall (talk) 03:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall I'm not sure what you're referring to for "Transformatix" row, the links you looks correct to me when I hover on both links. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

The links themselves are correct. However, the link on the bottom should be on top and the link on top should be on the bottom. SurferSquall (talk) 16:12, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall I'm confused, you can't fix it yourself? I don't see any indications that you are currently blocked from editing that page nor is it user rights blockage hence not sure why you needed my help to do it on your behalf, I'm not uncomfortable in doing so. Please start an edit request at the page's talk page instead if you indeed have any difficulties in editing that page directly. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

I simply am not experienced with formatting links, I thought to ask you because you know how to do so. SurferSquall (talk) 00:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall I'm still not comfortable in doing so. Below is the edited code that you can copy-paste and publish it yourself. Simply click "Edit" on the top right, Ctrl+F to search "Transformatix", copy the below code, highlight the existing code, and Ctrl+V to replace it.

| Transformatix{{pb}}<small>Fictitious American [[new wave]] band.</small>
| data-sort-value="1278" | {{A.y|2008|6|24|2021|4|3|round=2}}
| {{nowrap|June 24, 2008}}
| {{nowrap|April 3, 2021}}
| 
| [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Transformatix|Deletion discussion]]{{pb}}[https://web.archive.org/web/20210327021021/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformatix Archived version of the hoax]
|-

Use the "Review your changes" button to see the diff, the changed line should be similar to below.

−

[https://web.archive.org/web/20210327021021/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformatix Archived version of the hoax]{{pb}}[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Transformatix|Deletion discussion]]

+

[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Transformatix|Deletion discussion]]<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>[https://web.archive.org/web/20210327021021/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformatix Archived version of the hoax]

— Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

If you’re so sure of how to do it, why not just do it?? SurferSquall (talk) 14:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

@SurferSquall Stated twice already that I'm not comfortable in doing so on your behalf. If you're still not willing to do it yourself despite me in good faith providing you to code above, then please start an edit request at the page's talk page instead. As there are no further enquiries required, this would be my final reply to this thread. Thanks and goodbye! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 October 2023

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Tech News: 2023-43

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• There is a new Language and internationalization newsletter, written quarterly. It contains updates on new feature development, improvements in various language-related technical projects, and related support work.
• Source map support has been enabled on all wikis. When you open the debugger in your browser's developer tools, you should be able to see the unminified JavaScript source code. [6]

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 24 October. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 25 October. It will be on all wikis from 26 October (calendar).

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Subject

Hiiiii Paper9oll!! I hope you're doing well. I was wondering what template you used for your user description box Jaymie144 (talk) 13:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi Jaymie144, template is personalized version (spinoff) based on the {{Infobox}}. Documentation on how to create Infobox is in the same link. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-44

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The Structured Content team, as part of its project of improving UploadWizard on Commons, made some UX improvements to the upload step of choosing own vs not own work (T347590), as well as to the licensing step for own work (T347756).
• The Design Systems team has released version 1.0.0 of Codex, the new design system for Wikimedia. See the full announcement about the release of Codex 1.0.0.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 31 October. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 1 November. It will be on all wikis from 2 November (calendar).
• Listings on category pages are sorted on each wiki for that language using a library. For a brief period on 2 November, changes to categories will not be sorted correctly for many languages. This is because the developers are upgrading to a new version of the library. They will then use a script to fix the existing categories. This will take a few hours or a few days depending on how big the wiki is. You can read more. [7][8]
• Starting November 1, the impact module (Special:Impact) will be upgraded by the Growth team. The new impact module shows newcomers more data regarding their impact on the wiki. It was tested by a few wikis during the last few months. [9]

Future changes

• There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. You can help by reviewing this proposal and sharing what you think about it.
• The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Article about Expert Petroleum

Hi Paper9oll, can you please give me more specific guidelines regarding my article about Expert Petroleum? I used references to reliable third-party sources for every piece of information used. Also, there is no praising the company in this article, only statement of facts and information from reliable 3rd party sources. Would really appreciate your feedback. Thank you! Upstream99 (talk) 15:14, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@Upstream99 The materials written does not read neutral to me with promotional sounding tone. Please improve it to by removing any form of promotional tone, also take note any MOS:WTW. The article also requires cleanup to meet the Manual of Style guidelines in particularly on the usage of all-caps. Also section heading starts with level 2 (== Section heading ==) instead of level 3 (=== Section heading ===) hence also kindly cleanup that portion and adjust the sub-headings accordingly. Lastly, add title for [6] as it's required for all references to have a title otherwise the Wikipedia software will throw error. Once fixed, just click the resubmit button. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the feedback. Much appreciated. I took it into account, made required changes and resubmitted the article. Upstream99 (talk) 08:45, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

November Articles for creation backlog drive

Hello Paper9oll:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.

You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over 1500 pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Loossemble

What is read instead? Please enlighten me. Lightoil (talk) 06:50, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

@Lightoil It is already sourced in the Career section. In addition, I also purposely added the same source (as a child ref) in the table's caption portion. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:04, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay thanks for telling me. Lightoil (talk) 07:16, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

@Lightoil No problem, please be careful next time. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:06, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

2023 MAMA Awards

Thanks for creating the page, I really enjoyed reading and translating it.

Do you think it is worth mentioning this article on the page? Estyxxxx (talk) 12:59, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Estyxxxx, kindly direct your compliment to Iamluke16 instead, I believe he is the main contributor of the article. Regarding your query, that article is reporting about gossip and rumors, in which per WP:GOSSIP, we don't include such materials here. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:25, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

I thought it was acceptable to add information on these topics as in 2020, 2009 and more.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. Estyxxxx (talk) 18:58, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

@Estyxxxx The context is different btw, actual Controversies vs gossip and rumors. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:40, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 November 2023

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Tech News: 2023-45

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• In the Vector 2022 skin, the default font-size of a number of navigational elements (tagline, tools menu, navigational links, and more) has been increased slightly to match the font size used in page content. [10]

Problems

• Last week, there was a problem displaying some recent edits on a few wikis, for 1-6 hours. The edits were saved but not immediately shown. This was due to a database problem. [11]

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 7 November. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 8 November. It will be on all wikis from 9 November (calendar).
• The Growth team will reassign newcomers from former mentors to the currently active mentors. They have also changed the notification language to be more user-friendly. [12][13]

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MediaWiki message delivery 21:04, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Concerns

After months of harassment and awkward corrections to my edits, I've decided that if you don't stop, I'll be forced to report you to the wiki administration. Your editing is very repetitive: "1 song was described as, the second song was described as", and so on. Stop this nonsense and let people (including me) edit. Not everything has to be according to your preferences. MotherofSnakes (talk) 20:47, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@MotherofSnakes You should be the one that stop this whole harrasement instead, every time I copyedited you immediately reverted it because for whatever reasons, only your revisions is "correct" even when not bothering to even put quotes when quoting and that includes minor paraphrasing and insisting that it's okay to do so when it isn't, you need to put quote even when you're paraphrasing, and also arguing that I didn't bothered reading the article when I know Korean, and when all else fails casting personal attacks when it's simply not even one to being with. I didn't state that I own the article and had let you to edit freely as long as whatever you're writing make sense and/or is the properly formatting however any editors are allowed to copyedit regardless. And no, I know see it's repeatitive nor writing out-of-context when we're describing every single one on track by track basis while omitting the K-pop terminology bs nonsense and also their non-NPOV self-praising when describing each songs hence it's balanced writing, if you still feel it's repeatitive then you can copyedit it to avoid such however I don't see how your previous "correct" revisions is non-repeatitive nor read smoothly with bunch of commas lumping multiple sentences together. And since, we are at that, I also recommended that you stop adding grandmother story into the articles unnecessarily, there are wikilink for such purposes, and a brief single sentence if sourceable will do if required, so if the reader are interested on such, they can navigate to the previous releases to read further. And also, based on your past conversation here, I can see that you have ownership issue in that you are not happy with me correcting your revisions, and as I have stated previously here to you, there isn't any policies nor guidelines stating that all articles cannot be similar in terms of writing, layout, etc hence not everything has to be according to your preferences either. This is a collaborative project and you don't own the articles neither do I however you must learn to work together and accept the "mistakes" if any when other editors correct/cleanup/copyedit your writings, if you're still unhappy, you have the article's talk page or the user's talk page to discuss further however I see nothing of such interaction other than you reverting without proper communication, in which noting that I did specifically include WP:BRD in the edit summary when it's worth discussing of which I don't see such efforts from you, and this doesn't means that after reading this, you go revert every single of my edits, that would fall under WP:DISRUPTSIGNS instead. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 00:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2023).

Administrator changes

0xDeadbeef

Tamzin

Dennis Brown

Interface administrator changes

Pppery

• Ragesoss
• TheresNoTime

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

• The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
• There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal is requested.

Arbitration

• Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections.
• Xaosflux, RoySmith and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee Elections. BusterD is the reserve commissioner.
• Following a motion, the contentious topic designation of Prem Rawat has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
• Following several motions, multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the Editor conduct in e-cigs articles, Liancourt Rocks, Longevity, Medicine, September 11 conspiracy theories, and Shakespeare authorship question cases.
• Following a motion, remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the Macedonia 2 case have been rescinded.
• Following a motion, remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the The Troubles case has been amended.
• An arbitration case named Industrial agriculture has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.

Miscellaneous

• The Articles for Creation backlog drive is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in the Gadgets settings. Sign up here to participate!

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:23, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

An apology

I would like to apologize to you for my recent behavior and just want to say thank you for your advice. I respect your opinion because I know you have been on Wikipedia much longer than I have. I hope my edits can be as good as yours one day. MotherofSnakes (talk) 18:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@MotherofSnakes No worries, thanks for the apology. My apologies to you too for any bad remarks and/or bad taste. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:19, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Please feel free to add any changes to the Agassy article or edit the whole thing (if you want ofc) :] MotherofSnakes (talk) 18:22, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@MotherofSnakes Noted, thanks you. Won't be editing it for now, just fyi that the Notes section specifying the different title styles isn't needed per discussion/clarification at WT:MOS previously[14], just letting you know for future references. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I was taking inspiration from Evermore (Taylor Swift album) where the tracks are stylized in all lowercase. MotherofSnakes (talk) 18:41, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@MotherofSnakes No worries, is up to you if you want to leave it or remove it, it is not enforced anyway. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:43, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Request for Assistance: Page Renaming and Redirect Removal

Dear @Paper9oll,

I trust this message finds you well. My name is Leefort, and I am the original author of the Wikipedia page titled "Seghatoleslam." I extend my sincere appreciation for your valuable contribution on September 25, 2023, wherein you adeptly addressed the page by removing the redirect and relocating it to basement, consequently designating it as the primary page. Your efforts were truly beneficial, and I am thankful for your commitment to maintaining the quality of content on Wikipedia.

I find myself encountering a similar challenge with another page that I have authored. The original page, titled "ثقت الاسلام," experienced a spelling error during the moving process. I am seeking your assistance in rectifying this matter by restoring the page to its original name (ثقت الاسلام) and eliminating the associated redirect page. The link to the redirect page in question is: ثقت الاسلام

To clarify the desired actions:

1. Rename the page from ثقةالاسلام to ثقت الاسلام

2. Remove the redirect page ثقت الاسلام

The objective is to have a singular page titled ثقت الاسلام

Your support in addressing this issue would be highly appreciated, and I am confident that your expertise will contribute to the seamless resolution of this matter. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Best regards,

Leefort (talk) 16:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Leefort I can't help you on this as the page is not part of English Wikipedia, I only answer request for English Wikipedia only. Please request at Persian Wikipedia equivalent of English Wikipedia's WP:RMTR instead. Thanks! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Pecorino Romano

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Greetings Paper9oll,

I Hope you are doing well. Since you performed the page move at Pecorino Romano, please take a look here. Per Ngram, the uppercase version is used most. I think that user is gaming the system. This caught my attention per Talk:Pecorino Sardo. Maliner (talk) 14:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maliner Please confirm that this is a request to revert the requested technical move, will perform the revert once you confirmed it. Thanks! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:36, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Let's follow MOS:CAPS here and please go ahead. Maliner (talk) 17:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maliner  Done as requested. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Thanks. Maliner (talk) 18:39, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maliner: @Paper9oll: there is a reason why capitalisation is the most common result on NGram: because the English think that "sardo" means "Sardinia", which explains why the English (and the Americans) write "Sardo" (with a capital "S"); the Italians laugh at these grammatical errors, because for us all it is normal to have a lowercase. The English (and the Americans) also think (not all) that "americano" of "ragazzo americano" (example) is written with a capital "A"; according to Italian grammar, it's heresy to make such an error. You English are great, but please leave the Italian grammar to us and try not to be right about this, please (however, I had requested that move (requested) because I was mistaken and had not yet read the rules of our dictionary about it. That move request (from lowercase to uppercase) was a mistake; I realised later that I had made a mistake and that the lowercase was correct). JackkBrown (talk) 19:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown Please open up WP:RSPM discussion at Talk:Pecorino Romano instead, if you want the article to be move to the proposed title, and also direct your further discussion pertaining to this topic there as well. I will proceed to close this discussion, and no further discussion here pertaining to this topic would be entertained. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A query about a draft deletion.

I want to delete my draft but it seems like it doesn't fit any criteria except for one or two. So will it not be possible to delete the draft? Idk nothing so just (talk) 19:05, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@Idk nothing so just You are not the creator of the draft hence you have no rights to request for it to be deleted. Furthermore, the draft has already saw many editors contributing to it hence deletion is simply out of the question. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 19:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I am the creator of the draft. The draft had first been published but it was later removed and made into a draft due to citation issues (since I was new I put citations from unreliable sources). I later on edited it and put right citations. I also made sure that the articles fit the Wikipedia criteria. As for other people's contributions, as much as I know the people contributed to the draft when it had been published. I am not sure if they contributed to it after it was made into a draft but I don't think they did. Since the draft has already been rejected three times, I don't wish to work on it anymore and would like for the draft to be deleted.Idk nothing so just (talk) 05:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Idk nothing so just NO! According to the logs, that credit belongs to Oscarcho00 instead, unless you're trying to tell me that you are WP:SOCK of Oscarcho00. In addition, according to the logs, Oscarcho00 contributed 36% of the content, while you contributed 30.5% of the content, Bloomingbyungchan contributed 24.6% of the content, and remaining 8.9% are split among 14 other editors. Hence, your rationale is absurd that you are the "creator" of the draft. I would also suggest that you read the WP:OWNERSHIP Wikipedia policies as you are exhibiting ownership behaviour by thinking that the draft belongs to you. Lastly, deletion is not possible so I would suggest that you drop that idea with immediate effect. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:31, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Oh! I'm sorry. I'm new so I'm still learning a lot of things. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for clarifying it. Idk nothing so just (talk) 06:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-46

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• Four new wikis have been created:
  • a Wikipedia in Moroccan Amazigh (w:zgh:) [15]
  • a Wikipedia in Dagaare (w:dga:) [16]
  • a Wikipedia in Toba Batak (w:bbc:) [17]
  • a Wikiquote in Banjar (q:bjn:) [18]

Problems

• Last week, users who previously visited Meta-Wiki or Wikimedia Commons and then became logged out on those wikis could not log in again. The problem is now resolved. [19]
• Last week, some pop-up dialogs and menus were shown with the wrong font size. The problem is now resolved. [20]

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 14 November. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 15 November. It will be on all wikis from 16 November (calendar).

Future changes

• Reference Previews are coming to many wikis as a default feature. They are popups for references, similar to the PagePreviews feature. You can opt out of seeing them. If you are using the gadgets Reference Tooltips or Navigation Popups, you won’t see Reference Previews. Deployment is planned for November 22, 2023.
• Canary (also known as heartbeat) events will be produced into Wikimedia event streams from December 11. Streams users are advised to filter out these events, by discarding all events where meta.domain == "canary". Updates to Pywikibot or wikimedia-streams will discard these events by default. [21]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:50, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

No better remaining citation

Many years ago I built a static arm binary of qemu, able to run x86 code and used it on a phone. The only published source was the YouTube video of this. I recently came across a mention of this work on the arm architecture page along side "citation required". So I thought I'd help and added a link to the only evidence of this work to my knowledge. This was removed but I'm unsure what better citation I could link to. 82.36.163.162 (talk) 01:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Read WP:VNOT. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:44, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 November 2023

• In the media: Propaganda and photos, lunatics and a lunar backup

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* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:44, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:OABOT

Hello! I've noticed you're very active checking reliable sources. Have you tried the oabot tool? I'd love to hear about your experience doing some edits with it. There are new suggested edits in the queue. Nemo 21:07, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-47

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week

• There is no new MediaWiki version this week. [22][23]
• Starting on Wednesday, a new set of Wikipedias will get "Add a link" (Quechua Wikipedia, Romansh Wikipedia, Romani Wikipedia, Rundi Wikipedia, Aromanian Wikipedia, Tarandíne Wikipedia, Rusyn Wikipedia, Kinyarwanda Wikipedia, Sanskrit Wikipedia, Sakha Wikipedia, Santali Wikipedia, Sardinian Wikipedia, Sicilian Wikipedia, Scots Wikipedia, Sindhi Wikipedia, Northern Sami Wikipedia, Sango Wikipedia, Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia, Sinhala Wikipedia, Slovak Wikipedia, Slovenian Wikipedia, Samoan Wikipedia, Somali Wikipedia, Albanian Wikipedia, Serbian Wikipedia, Sranan Tongo Wikipedia, Swati Wikipedia, Southern Sotho Wikipedia, Saterland Frisian Wikipedia, Sundanese Wikipedia, Silesian Wikipedia, Tamil Wikipedia, Tulu Wikipedia, Telugu Wikipedia, Tetum Wikipedia, Tajik Wikipedia, Thai Wikipedia, Turkmen Wikipedia, Tagalog Wikipedia, Tswana Wikipedia, Tongan Wikipedia, Tok Pisin Wikipedia, Turkish Wikipedia, Tsonga Wikipedia, Tatar Wikipedia, Twi Wikipedia, Tahitian Wikipedia, Tuvinian Wikipedia, Udmurt Wikipedia, Uyghur Wikipedia, Uzbek Wikipedia, Venda Wikipedia, Venetian Wikipedia, Veps Wikipedia, West Flemish Wikipedia, Volapük Wikipedia). This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally. [24][25][26]
• The Vector 2022 skin will have some minor visual changes to drop-down menus, column widths, and more. These changes were added to four Wikipedias last week. If no issues are found, these changes will proceed to all wikis this week. These changes will make it possible to add new menus for readability and dark mode. Learn more. [27]

Future changes

• There is an update on re-enabling the Graph Extension. To speed up the process, Vega 2 will not be supported and only some protocols will be available at launch. You can help by sharing what you think about the plan.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 00:53, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Correcting the notes with alternative meaning

As what you said earlier that on the note section of 2023 MAMA Awards, you quote on YouTube Worldwide feed: "Broadcast available worldwide (excluding South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia, Myanmar, and Maldives) based on YouTube availability excluding blocked countries" was somehow confused users that it was blocked on the underlined countries (referred as selected Asian markets in case parts of Asian markets wasn't the word you would accepted on) was blocked because of censorship broadcast blackout (which the sentence "excluding parts of Asian markets due to broadcasting rights" has been previously written). Is there a proper way to provide alternative meaning ("short quote") on that quotation? After all, not everything in this sentence suppose to be fully detailed. VernardoLau (talk) 08:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

@VernardoLau I think you has this misconception that the entire Broadcast section is designed and/or written for viewers POV instead of NPOV for readers, Wikipedia is not a television guide btw. The current wording is perfectly okay as it is written to read as "Broadcast is available worldwide based on YouTube availability excluding blocked countries", the "blocked countries" doesn't implies "South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia, Myanmar, and Maldives" as it links directly to an article on censorship, furthermore as stated, we are not TV guide. In addition, adding "broadcasting rights" is a form of original research as none of the reliable sources that I'm aware of stated such hence you are not assuming that because it's already broadcasted by local broadcaster hence you can happily introduced WP:SPECULATION in which there isn't a RSes to support such which is your WP:ONUS to do so. Furthermore, changing to "selected Asian markets" and/or "Asian markets" made the entire note inaccurate and introduced vagueness. I'm opposing the removal of "based on YouTube availability excluding blocked countries" in addition to the listing of countries, if compromise is required then change "Worldwide" to "Various" instead as this is the accepted term used by Albums/Songs' articles in the Release history section on English Wikipedia.— Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:07, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

If there's no other problem with this matter, maybe that mentioned countries you've written between the sentence could placed near "excluding blocked countries" rather than mentioned it near "worldwide". VernardoLau (talk) 09:34, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

@VernardoLau I don't think placing it beside and/or as a comma to "excluding blocked countries" is a good idea as there would imply that the entire YouTube services (basically the entire platform) isn't available. Maybe, "Broadcast is available worldwide (excluding South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia, Myanmar, and Maldives) based on YouTube's service availability." — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

That sentence will be fitting for "Various" over "Worldwide". VernardoLau (talk) 10:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

@VernardoLau You mean changing worldwide in the notes or table? — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Table, cause the notes edit seems reliable and understandable. VernardoLau (talk) 10:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

@VernardoLau  Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Same person?

Is this the same person as in the multiple article creations by a sock team? It's been a while so I cannot recall. Netherzone (talk) 14:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Netherzone, it has been a while. I believe is the same person, reported to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Tinkubhoi, however would need confirmation before CSD G5 can be done. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Just saw these as well: Draft:Satya Narayan Maharana, Pravakar Maharana. They are certainly persistent! Thanks for reporting. Netherzone (talk) 18:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Manual citations instead of templates

Regarding your converting templates to manual citations on Drama (Aespa EP) and Drama (Aespa song)—is this a new thing you're doing? Are you not satisfied with the templates' markup or fearful the links may go dead in the future so you wish to manually cite them so you can archive the links? I really hope it isn't because I much prefer templates. Even if the song, EP or album whose article you're working on is no longer charting, I still think templates are convenient for editors. Templates help editors so that if a website's URL(s) change down the line, the documentation of the template can be adjusted so the links across thousands of articles all work again. Hung Medien's websites and the UK's links still work after like 10 years—I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon. Ss112 14:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ss112 Not a new thing, it has been a while for linkrot prevention. Since, frankly speaking, the template isn't as "good" as it's "advertised" to be compared to the manual route, maybe it brings convenience, I'm not sure how if it even does so, since one cannot actually run archival bot to do a one-shot bulk archival (per page or bulk database run) as the cite templates generated by these templates are not recognizable by the bots as they are not substituted into the article coding but rather transcluded, in turn means manually archiving which isn't productive since this is a time consuming and repetitive task. In addition, certain charts website (forgot which one or two, but is one of it in either the EP or song) doesn't actually give the readers, the actual link, in which the template is literally asking them to search it themselves which imo is easily is solvable by making the cite as url-status=deviated which would give the readers an archived version of correct charting period without the hassle of literally searching themselves. I believe "if a website's URL(s) change down the line ... can be adjusted so the links across thousands of articles all work again" is covered by archival already. Well, I don't think we can predict when the websites would really stop working and/or they decided to migrate to a new URL with completely different subdomains structure, we already an example in the form of Gaon > Circle Chart (maybe there is others that I'm not sure of since I believed that you already knew that I only edit exclusively on K-pop related), in which running AWB to swap perm dead link for live version is not possible due to their different url structuring. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-48

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 28 November. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 29 November. It will be on all wikis from 30 November (calendar). There is no new MediaWiki version next week. [28][29]
• MediaWiki's JavaScript system will now allow async/await syntax in gadgets and user scripts. Gadget authors should remember that users' browsers may not support it, so it should be used appropriately. [30]
• The deployment of "Add a link" announced last week was postponed. It will resume this week.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

"Presented in conjunction with..."

I was been thinking about input "Presented in conjunction with..." on most of the Daesangs (and some special awards) for 2023 MAMA Awards, just like when The Game Awards 2023 has input "Presented in conjunction with Discord" on Best Multiplayer. Is this needed or shall I ignored it? VernardoLau (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@VernardoLau What is the exact purpose on such inclusion? I don't see why "Presented in conjunction with [xyz]" should be included as I don't see how are such information noteworthy. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

For sponsorship disclosures, in which I'm already attached on the article earlier. VernardoLau (talk) 13:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@VernardoLau Then I don't see why it's considered as noteworthy to included here as Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion for these companies and/or their products. In addition, I also opposed including "Presented by Samsung Galaxy" included in the lede and the infobox in which, if I have time to spare either tomorrow or later this week, I would like to clarify on WT:MOS and/or Template:Infobox award if it is even appropriate to include such information and why does the param presented_by exists in the Infobox as nowwhere does it sounds or read like we are not promoting the company and/or their products. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Removing longlisted nominees

I'm a bit confused, as I am adjusting the longlisted nominees as indicated in the awards ceremony. If you watched the ceremony, the list of ten nominees was reduced to five, as shown in my edits. How exactly do you want this to be shown. Lostpotential (talk) 12:09, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Lostpotential You literally deleted the content, the diffs evidenced that exactly. If I didn't reverted you then the list of actual nominees would be deleted. Fyi, I'm monitoring the diffs so don't try to weasel out with me. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:12, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

To be honest, it was a mistake, and I wasn't quite sure how you wanted to include the longlisted nominees, as you adjusted it to be "nominees" in an earlier category. What's with the difference between "nominees" in the Top 10 categories and the longlisted nominees in the Daesung categories? Lostpotential (talk) 12:13, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Furthermore, it's a bit inconsistent with previous MMA's list of winners & nominees, which completely removed the other longlisted nominees. Some consistency would help, just fyi. Lostpotential (talk) 12:16, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Lostpotential As per source for longlisted nominees. Longlisted means the initial list of nominees that was published right from the beginning, this was cutdown to the nominees (shortlisted) in the final ceremony, if applicable. In which, both Top 10, doesn't has any shortlisted nominees in the final ceremony whereas the rest has. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:18, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Alright. I do think I was confused because of how previous years' MMA pages (2022, 2020) in which the longlisted nominees were completely removed. I see that you were the one who created this page, so you must have your own formatting preferences, understood. Lostpotential (talk) 12:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Lostpotential The previous MMA isn't created by me, and their formatting is lagging and also majortively unsourced and/or poorly sourced. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Query

The Story of Park's Marriage Contract & Korea–Khitan War ---- What is the reason for rejection? Muatsem90 (talk) 16:25, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Muatsem90 For adding unnecessary spacing. See your edit to the former compared to mine, and your edit to the latter compared to mine. This isn't the first time btw, I can do dig out a bunch of such if I want to, however I don't think we have to go there. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 December 2023

• News and notes: Beeblebrox ejected from Arbitration Committee following posts on Wikipediocracy

• In the media: Turmoil on Hebrew Wikipedia, grave dancing, Olga's impact and inspiring Bhutanese nuns

• Disinformation report: "Wikipedia and the assault on history"

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• Comix: Bold comics for a new age

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• Traffic report: And it's hard to watch some cricket, in the cold November Rain

• Humour: Mandy Rice-Davies Applies

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-49

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The spacing between paragraphs on Vector 2022 has been changed from 7px to 14px to match the size of the text. This will make it easier to distinguish paragraphs from sentences. [31]
• The "Sort this page by default as" feature in VisualEditor is working again. You no longer need to switch to source editing to edit {{DEFAULTSORT:...}} keywords. [32]

Changes later this week

• There is no new MediaWiki version this week. [33][34]
• On 6 December, people who have the enabled the preference for "Show discussion activity" will notice the talk page usability improvements appear on pages that include the __NEWSECTIONLINK__ magic word. If you notice any issues, please share them with the team on Phabricator.

Future changes

• The Toolforge Grid Engine shutdown process will start on December 14. Maintainers of tools that still use this old system should plan to migrate to Kubernetes, or tell the team your plans on Phabricator in the task about your tool, before that date. [35]
• Communities using Structured Discussions are being contacted regarding the upcoming deprecation of Structured Discussions. You can read more about this project, and share your comments, on the project's page.

Events

• Registration & Scholarship applications are now open for the Wikimedia Hackathon 2024 that will take place from 3–5 May in Tallinn, Estonia. Scholarship applications are open until 5 January 2024.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2023).

Administrator changes

• Ganesha811
• JPxG

• Ajpolino
• Lourdes
• Mairi
• RockMFR
• Somno
• WilyD

Beeblebrox → Just Step Sideways

CheckUser changes

• Beeblebrox
• Opabinia regalis

Oversight changes

• Beeblebrox
• Opabinia regalis

Guideline and policy news

• Following a talk page discussion, the Administrators' accountability policy has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have notifications (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.

Arbitration

• Following a motion, the Extended Confirmed Restriction has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
• The Arbitration Committee has announced a call for Checkusers and Oversighters, stating that it will currently be accepting applications for CheckUser and/or Oversight permissions at any point in the year.
• Eligible users are invited to vote on candidates for the Arbitration Committee until 23:59 December 11, 2023 (UTC). Candidate statements can be seen here.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

The Story of Park's Marriage Contract episode count

Hey @Paper9oll per Template:Infobox television it is stated in "| num_episodes =" parameter that "Value is incremented when new episodes air." and I updated the episode count which is 21:50 KST and 8:55 pm in article's history, my timezone and your timezone. So what is WP:IDHT there? ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 15:13, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@98Tigerius IDHT for ignoring what I have informed you previously, according my side, you updated in advance of 21:50 KST. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:15, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Huh? Your side? It seems like WP:OWN. How is it advance when I just followed the time provided on the article? ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 15:26, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@98Tigerius According to my watchlist and also the article's history, at that point of time, I'm seeing that you edited at 11:55 UTC (which is certainly not 21:55 KST) to the articles, in which I'm not sure how that's already 21:55 KST for you. As of currently, I'm still seeing the history reflected as 11:55 UTC, see screenshot of evidence (I've censored away our username), this screenshot is set to auto-delete after 1 day, hence I believed there is an ongoing issues on Wikipedia servers side as I can see the timing doesn't tally with some discrepancy with the real world timing when comparing to other articles and also doing a manual countback, in which, you indeed updated after 21:50 KST, I retract my statement of IDHT and also my apologies for that, however I don't see it as my fault given that the Wikipedia server is showing me incorrect timing at that point of time and still currently as of this comment despite me already clearing the cookies and cache, and logging in and out. However, I still expect retraction for your false accusations of OWN, if you haven't read my talk header, I expect you to read it, and also apologize for such. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:30, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Did you try to open the article in incognito tab and see history? I tried it and my edit there with the edit summary: "ep count" is indeed at 12:55 UTC (21:55 KST). And I retract my statement of OWN, apologies for that. ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 17:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@98Tigerius Yes, I already tried that. Not sure, what is going on, I will see if it's has auto-resolved tomorrow morning/afternoon. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:13, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Love Twist (TV Show) discussion

Hello, I've noticed you removed the content of the page twice for no reason, that's why I called for a discussion. So can you tell me exactly which parts do you think are inaccurate or need to be removed? Beacause I reviewed it and made some changes too (that were not saved) but I didn't see any reason for the total removal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RWikiED20 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@RWikiED20 Which part of "No reliable source" is unclear and/or interpretable??? In addition, to "No reliable source", you also added commentary and puffery based on your own original research. Your entire edits is about adding "stats" of some sort, in which, such materials requires secondary independent reliable sources to be included here as per WP:INDISCRIMINATE quote "To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with referenced to independent sources ... merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia" in which, your edits is not as per quote, but rather you adding your original research based on YouTube counts, and Nielsen Korea stats in which, neither ties to whatever you're writing such as "making one of KBS2's most watched daily dramas online", "It ranks among the most-watched long-format dramas in the country according to AGB Nielson", and among others that are too long to be quoted. None of this stats and your writing are explicitly stated hence you're adding original research without providing any secondary independent reliable sources hence making it "No reliable source". — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

• I know what "No reliable source" means. I meant which part?
• The "commentary" consists of 2 phrases to summarize the show's commercial performance which is nothing out of the ordinary for any Show page here on WP.
• All of the content you removed IS sourced below, the only reference missing from I've seen are the Gallup ranking (which I'm curently searching for). The ratings (+ its commentaries) are all from AGB Nielson. The exports and the views are from their respevtive sites.

RWikiED20 (talk) 11:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@RWikiED20 Your reply clearly shows that you didn't bothered reading my reply fully and/or exhibiting I didn't heard that. In addition, don't come bs me that this is a norm thing in Wikipedia, I'm not dumb. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:14, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oh no sorry for that I didn't see your second reply.
• For "The most-watched long-form drama" part, I got it from here and not based on my own research: Korean drama#Ratings and viewership
• As for the rest of the "online" content, I suppose, I just added it since since KBS (and most channels really) are shifting to online streaming as ratings are going down, so I thought It was important to add an "online part".
• For the "export" part, I genuinely didn't think it was imperative to add a secondary source for those, simply because I removed this kind of content myself in the past, but I was told that secondary sources aren't necessary for those as they're rarely reported, instead, a link from the official site is enough.

Note: Sorry if I sounded a bit rude before by the way, I was just concerned as to why all the content was suddenly removed

RWikiED20 (talk) 11:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@RWikiED20 Regardless of what and/or how you think, point 2 to 4 is entirely WP:OR as you have no WP:SECONDARY WP:INDEPENDENT WP:RS to support it. With point 2 also WP:CIRCULAR. I have already replied you on your concerns, I have no further comments required from my end, and I'm not going to merry-go-round here. Noting that you don't have any WP:CONSENSUS to proceed ahead at this point of time unless you provide secondary independent RS that explicitly states whatever you're adding (if it's failed verification, you still would be reverted) otherwise it's no go, this applies to not just Love Twist but also to other articles. Ignoring the replies by proceeding to WP:DISRUPTIVE EDITING, would be considered as treated as WP:IDHT and WP:DISRUPTSIGNS. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:36, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Reply to your question

Just answering a few questions you had from your talk pageheaderedit summary.

This is the report page Wikipedia has that is displaying the error affecting your talk archives. Misc Tidy replacement issues are a higher priority error, and for the past week, your pages have been the only ones with this issue, so they have had a higher visibility to the Wikignomes who fix syntax issues and go after these sorts of errors regularly. I think it's been stumping us a bit, since most times this, or any other error that we've fully fixed all cases of, is typically fixed within a few hours.

WP:LINT is the page/set of rules that governs all syntax error fixes on all pages on Wikipedia. We are generally not required to notify a user before fixing a minor issue, but there are multiple other rules we are required to follow which are stated on this page. The two main rules that I believe relate to your page are that we are required to "Try to preserve the appearance" and "It is OK to change the appearance in some cases if it preserves the original intent". Correcting the nesting of tags, or swapping out a tag for another similar tag to achieve the same outcome are regular types of edits for us.

I have not attempted to fix this error on your page(s), since I have better knowledge of other syntax errors, and no clear fix has presented itself to me yet. We Gnomes all seem to know different types of errors a little better than others, and I fully trust all of the regular Delinting WikiGnomes for their edits. Please WP:AGF for Gonnym's edit, (and any other editors') edits who might attempt a satisfying correction for this syntax issue. We simply want pages to display as the user intended, with clean, error free code, and without bothering you or any other user.

Best, Zinnober9 (talk) 21:11, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Zinnober9 Thanks for the clarification. How do I still use {{large}} or implement large font properties then since for whatever unknown reasons span followed by div is considered as incorrect here on Wikipedia even though as a web developer for most of my life, I'm not aware of such neither is it considered as "incorrect". Of which to note that, it hasn't been flagged for 2 years hence someone must have suddenly think that it's "incorrect" and added that flag hence flagging it. I also don't think, there were no gnomes working for this past 2 years. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 00:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not as well versed in templates and their sometimes intricate nestings as I'd like to be, so I don't know for certain. I've been more focused on broken link colors (ie Tidy Fonts), and Wikitable errors for the past year, so better versed with those than templates. I just know that for some reason or another that particular nesting is being flagged for some reason. This gives some explanation for why the divspanflip error (in general) is flagged with the last paragraph here, but I'm not a web developer, so I'm not able to fully explain the why further.

As to why 2 years later, I know that while most issues are flagged right after an edit is made, some edits fall through the cracks and pages suddenly are idly scanned for issues much later. No idea why.

I'm really puzzled why the header page itself is not claiming the error, but all the pages that the header appears on do. You likely saw my edit testing a theory on Archive 3. Sadly that was a bust. Thought it was worth testing though I had, as I remember running across one error a year or two ago that purging the page's cache didn't clear, and there wasn't any error on the transcluded page, but breaking the call and then restoring it cleared the error for whatever reason. Sadly not the case here. Zinnober9 (talk) 05:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Zinnober9 🤔 okay that's certainly very weird. I will comment it out for now, will find out myself what is the workaround instead, most like involved forking the templates in use since direct modification isn't possible nor does it have existing parameters to style it. Thanks for the clarification, appreciate it. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

{{Large}} is a simple template that wraps its contents in

<span style="font-size:120%"></span>

To achieve the same effect in wrapping content that contains div tags, use {{largediv}} or

<div style="font-size:120%"></div>

As for why this problem only cropped up now, my guess is that a recent edit to {{Archive navigation}} triggered re-parsing of all pages that use that template, surfacing this error. Pages sometimes go years on Wikipedia without being reparsed by the servers, which means that errors can be present without appearing on reports or categories. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:40, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jonesey95 Nice, thanks for the resolution and clarification. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:53, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

To view the lint error on the pages it was transcluded, you can copy the code directly and it will show all lint errors. I think also that the if/else section was preventing the lint errors to appear for some reason. So the system knew there was a lint error but didn't show it. Gonnym (talk) 09:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll as for why for whatever unknown reasons span followed by div is considered as incorrect here on Wikipedia, W3Schools provides a brief explantion (with many more found on the web). A div is a block element while a span is an inline element. They note that "An inline element cannot contain a block-level element". I'm assuming that this might work on some browsers, while on others the result will not be as users expect. Gonnym (talk) 09:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gonnym Nah, we don't care about this in our day to day life as web dev. If it works it works, don't question why it works. But anyway, since the system was suddenly purge to rescan and unluckily, my "if it's working, don't fix it" template got flagged, I have no choice but to fix it anyway. Regardless, thanks for the clarification and apologies for any inconvenience caused. Happy editing! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:23, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-50

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Recent changes

• On Wikimedia Commons, there are some minor user-interface improvements for the "choosing own vs not own work" step in the UploadWizard. This is part of the Structured Content team's project of improving UploadWizard on Commons. [36][37]

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• There was a problem showing the Newcomer homepage feature with the "impact module" and their page-view graphs, for a few days in early December. This has now been fixed. [38][39]

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• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 12 December. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 13 December. It will be on all wikis from 14 December (calendar). [40][41]

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MediaWiki message delivery 02:10, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

thank you for formatting help!

I just got an edit conflict notice as I was re-editing the formatting for an image uploaded to D.O. (entertainer) to find you had beat me to fixing my mistake and wanted to thank you! Wondering if as per MOS rules (which I admit I am still a beginner at knowing) for portraits, if the image should not still be on the left to "face" the text. This could be done my moving the image further up, so as to not displace the Discography section below (the edit I was making before your fix) but wanted to know your thoughts :) DohKyungsoo (talk) 05:25, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi DohKyungsoo, edit conflict happens when there are two or more editors editing concurrently, you can read more on Help:Edit conflict. And yes, if you want the image to be position on the left, you can move it further up, provided that it doesn't disturb the flow of the section's heading and/or the preceding sections' alignment. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:31, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply! I will move the image to the left further up, as it shows no signs of disturbing the flow when properly indented. DohKyungsoo (talk) 05:44, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

South Korean series on OTT

Hi @Paper9oll regarding those series that's only available on OTT platforms specifically Netflix and/or Disney+ (Star), why is it a "web series" in its lede and short description but their article titles have parentheses with either "TV seires" or "South Korean TV series" (you edited some of it and I also did the same)? Mostly English and other non-English Netflix and/or Disney+ (Star) series don't use web series in the lede or short description but rather the genre (like Netflix One Piece or Alice in Borderland and Disney+ Loki or Star Culprits). My suggestion is changed the "web series" in the lede and short description (free-to-air/cable dramas and those have exclusive international broadcast are not included). What's your thought? ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 12:57, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@98Tigerius I tried that before, and I have been reverted before as some editors apparently tied "web series" with YouTube-style videos that are like 10–15 mins long, basically those indie drama-like videos, no point talking to them as you basically talking to a wall, they will tell you that web series stated so. I wouldn't suggest that you go around and brute-force changing to web series for series outside of South Korea as you would likely be meet with strong opposition instead. However I believe that majortively of South Korean web series' articles are already written as web series with exception of some that are reverted which I'm not interested in edit warring to get it just written as web series. As for disambiguation, the same reasoning applies hence instead of "(web series)", you instead have misleading "(TV series)" despite not even airing on actual television network itself, of which, this is also following the WP:NCTV guidelines which simply doesn't care whether the series/show aired on actual television network or not. Currently, the meaning of web series isn't every well-defined, it may mean short-form YouTube-style videos, and can also mean Streaming television videos i.e. Netflix/Disney+/etc, of course, this depends on who you're asking and of course which era/generation they're from. However, since majortively of South Korean BLPs already have this practice of listing Netflix/Disney+/etc under dedicated web series section hence I see no reason in matching the show's articles as such. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:15, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Oh right I forgot about South Korean BLP's work lists. Thanks a lot! ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 13:26, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@98Tigerius No prob. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:28, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Another concern, why some web series are categorize in Category:2023 South Korean television series debuts and Category:2023 South Korean television series endings like Moving, Black Knight, Love to Hate You and etc. but not The Glory, Sweet Home, and others? This is really confusing. ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 14:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@98Tigerius I don't understand what you meant, I can see that the categories (202x South Korean television series debuts/endings) exists for both the formers and the latters. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:32, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-51

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Tech News

• The next issue of Tech News will be sent out on 8 January 2024 because of the holidays.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 19 December. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 20 December. It will be on all wikis from 21 December (calendar). There is no new MediaWiki version next week. [42][43]
• Starting December 18, it won't be possible to activate Structured Discussions on a user's own talk page using the Beta feature. The Beta feature option remains available for users who want to deactivate Structured Discussions. This is part of Structured Discussions' deprecation work. [44]
• There will be full support for redirects in the Module namespace. The "Move Page" feature will leave an appropriate redirect behind, and such redirects will be appropriately recognized by the software (e.g. hidden from Special:UnconnectedPages). There will also be support for manual redirects. [45]

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• The MediaWiki JavaScript documentation is moving to a new format. During the move, you can read the old docs using version 1.41. Feedback about the new site is welcome on the project talk page.
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MediaWiki message delivery 16:16, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry

I created an AFD for an article improperly moved from draft space and, while I was doing that, it was moved back to draft space where it should be. [46]. Didn't mean to step on your toes, please accept my apologies. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 13:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

@Glane23 No probs. I moved it to mainspace for now since AfD was created. The mover has been disruptive moving this draft topic of various title to mainspace for quite some already. — 🎄🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎄 (🔔 • 📝) 13:58, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Daum rating

Hello, about the title in the citation of Korea–Khitan War and others ongoing K-dramas, there's a space between the series title in hangul and 시청률 (like this: |script-title=ko:고려 거란 전쟁 시청률) but when you click the link in the reference section and go to Daum, in search bar I see there's no space in between (like this:고려 거란 전쟁시청률) so why is like that? ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 14:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed — 🎄🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎄 (🔔 • 📝) 14:20, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 14:25, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome! — 🎄🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎄 (🔔 • 📝) 14:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

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Ailee recent change

Hi regarding the recent change, I've seen several clips of her on that show which was why I added that. As for source I tried to use it but it was denied unless I can link the video link as a source? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGQB_s1fGx4 104.54.21.219 (talk) 21:11, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Please provide secondary independent reliable source instead. And also note that as per consensus at WT:KO, guesting and/or one-time appearances and/or non-fixed cast appearances on television shows is not allowed for inclusion. — 🎄🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎄 (🔔 • 📝) 02:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

oh I see then never mind then thank you 104.54.21.219 (talk) 04:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)