User talk:Paper9oll/Archive 5

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A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	I just really like your signature! –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 15:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

@MJL Thanks a lot. Happy editing and have a nice weekend! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:15, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Source

You have deleted a source in a section in a BLP article Jihyo. Can you tell me why you deleted it. MaccWiki (talk) 06:46, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

@MaccWiki It always good to read the edit summary. However, I don't mind repeating it, this is what I've written in the edit summary "No longer needed as KMCA database has been updated". In addition, like to point out that I added the source previously (the same source I've removed as per the edit summary) and also this line "All song credits are adapted from the Korea Music Copyright Association's database unless stated otherwise". — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:53, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata Notice

Hi! I just wanted to introduce myself and give notice about some Wikidata stuff.

I'm a major contributor for KPOP music discographies on Wikidata. I usually create items for releases before articles are created. For example, I created Hate That... (Q108291006) before you created Hate That... (Q108442610) (they are merged now). So, please search for an item before you create it. I may have already created it!

If you have any more questions about Wikidata stuff or how discographies are modeled, please ask!

Also, thank you for your dedicated KPOP Wikipedia contributions! Lectrician1 (talk) 12:43, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lectrician1 Roger that. I check out the version you created that are some missing details from my version (which now redirect to your version), I have added back the additional details. Thanks you for contacting me, will double check in the future. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:46, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

FYI, Taeyeon should not be a performer on the single item. This single item represents the release itself. Key is the artist/publisher of the release. Taeyeon is only featured on the song that is part of the release. I documented that Taeyeon is the featured artist on the seperate song item I made that is part of the single: Hate That... (Q108291170).

I also kinda went all-out with this release and created some other related/interconnected items:

• Vocal track: Hate That... (Q108333893)
• Music video: Hate That... (Q108333845)
• Digital single (the actual digital single release): Hate That... (Q108334051) Lectrician1 (talk) 13:02, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lectrician1 No comments on the additional items as my area of concern is the item (which this instance is Q108291006) that links directly to the article, I have however improve on the Taeyeon part by adding object has role qualifier, should be okay right? Fyi, I'm not every well-verse on wikidata items, but I have some basic knowledge hence why I have no comments on the additional items you have created because I'm not sure why it is needed. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:09, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Meaning of constructive or nonconstructive content

Hi, most of the revisions have been deleted and I would like to understand more so as to do better revision. I understood the part about reliable sources, but don't understand the reasons which stated nonconstructive content which pertains the recent updated activities of the idol groups. Many of the pages have the activities stated till 2017/2018 only. I tried to find information about the definition of constructive/ nonconstructive content but they are not available. Please assist thanksChloe99999 (talk) 08:26, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Chloe99999 Pertaining to your edits on Girls' Generation and 2NE1, please read WP:NOT, WP:FANCRUFT and WP:TRIVIA. Most of content you have added (which has now been rollbacked) are unnecessary. For Girls' Generation, solo activities are already mentioned and we don't allowed external links within content, external links should only appear in dedicated external links section which at the same time, not all external links will be included as per WP:EL and also WP:NOT. Jessica have left Girls' Generation hence mentioned her work is simply unnecessary. In addition, for YouTube stuff that other members are doing, those are simply trivia and not important enough to be mentioned on Wikipedia. And also for 2NE1, they have already disband hence further activities not concerning the group shouldn't be included in the group article but may be included in the member's individual article (still subjected to other editors rollback if they deem the content is not needed). Your other rollbacked edits, basically doesn't have WP:RS or addition of self-published source / questionable source (basically not providing reliable source) or addition of unreliable source as per WP:KO/RS#UR. I would recommend that you go and read the entire welcome guide (including every single links) posted in your talk page. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:34, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Re: Copyright violation message on Silkchwe talk page

I have just received your message on my talk page regarding a copyright violation for the following image: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Joy_(Park_Sooyoung)_in_2019.jpg#{{int%3Alicense-header}}. I would like to ensure that I do not make another mistake as I had sincerely tried to follow every step to check that the image would be allowed under the correct license as was stated in this article https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:YouTube_files. I checked first with both of the suggested websites that the image was from a YouTube channel that allows Creative Commons Attribution. Here are the results which show the video: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%EB%A0%88%EB%93%9C%EB%B2%A8%EB%B2%B3+%EC%A1%B0%EC%9D%B4(Red+Velvet+JOY)%2C+%EA%B3%BC%EC%A6%99%EB%AF%B8%EA%B0%80+%27%ED%8C%A1%ED%8C%A1%27+%5BNewsenTV%5D and https://youtube-channel.toolforge.org/. NewsenTV has been used for other images without a copyright violation so I am unsure what went wrong. Any further help in understanding would be greatly appreciated. Silkchwe (talk) 02:45, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Silkchwe Not every YouTube videos are licensed under Creative Commons (be it version 3.0 or 4.0 or older/newer). On this search result page, click on Filters, then click Creative Commons. The video doesn't appear which means it is not licensed under Creative Commons. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:12, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll I will now use this in the future for any YouTube video screenshots. I had followed the wikipedia article and their website search suggestions, but will now use this filter method to make sure any image is correctly licensed. I am still in the process of learning and will keep educating myself in regards to copyright. Hopefully in the future I will be able to upload and edit correctly. Thank you. Silkchwe (talk) 03:22, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Silkchwe Hopefully you do understood. However, please note that you shouldn't be going around every single Wikipedia article of your interest and change the image in the infobox unnecessarily. Normally, the newer photo (by year) with higher resolution or similar resolution as the older photo should be used, however if the newer photo has lower resolution than the older photo then it will highly likely be rollback by any editors. In addition, I have posted Welcome Guide above your talk page, I would highly recommend you to go and read every single links in the guide. Thanks you and regards — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:31, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Thank you for your help, and I absolutely understand and will not be making unnecessary edits. The photo I was editing on the article for Park Sooyoung's infoxbox was because it was of such a particularly low resolution with an orange/pink tint over the entire subject and overexposed. I will make sure that any image I edit it to will be of a higher resolution and quality (and of course now with the correct license). Thank you again for your help. Silkchwe (talk) 03:38, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Re: Column division

Hi again, I noticed that the "col" you put in the Members section of the article TWICE does not work, am I the only one who noticed, can you take a look at it and if possible fix it as well. MACCWIKI (talk) 08:37, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@MaccWiki Are you using mobile? Column division doesn't work on mobile (don't ask me why, Wikipedia developer designed it to not work on mobile), you can only see the design in effect on desktop only, this is how it is rendered on desktop. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:51, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Reversion review

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=STAYC&diff=1043987972&oldid=1043986120&diffmode=source

- First, I sort members in age order to be in age order.

- Second, this controversy is relevant.

If you have reason to revert it, reply here. 1Way4Together - J. Smile | Please comment on content, not on me 01:46, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

@J. Smile (Love & V.A.V.I) Please discuss the issues in the article talkspace which I have ping and reply you there. If you have concern about article, please discuss on the article talkspace ... not sure why you choose not the reply to Luke there and instead bring it to his user talk. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:51, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I do it to notify and can discuss with the user directly. 1Way4Together - J. Smile | Please comment on content, not on me 01:52, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

@J. Smile (Love & V.A.V.I) I don't see why you can't do it on the article talkspace since the issues is what you would like to discuss hence no point haven't split discussion unless you want to keep it two way between Luke and you instead of having the community giving their views/comments. Anyway, I have reply you there if you have seen it and also manually restore the infobox changes. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

How Wikidata discographies work

I see that you archived our last discussion. I wanted to get back to you at some point and explain how release groups/releases work. I think I should just kind of explain how documenting music releases works entirely on Wikidata.

At Wikiproject Music User:Moebeus and I are trying to mimic the data model that Musicbrainz uses. This involves 2 key components:

1. Release groups
2. Releases

Release groups represent the "release" as a whole. They are the item that is linked to the Wikipedia article for a album, EP, or single.

Release groups have many "releases". Releases are each of the types of ways a release is distributed. For examples, on Wikipedia and Musicbrainz.

---

Now, I think both the confusion that was met with Hate That... (Q108291006) and Stereotype (Q108544577) relates to something a bit different: what is the definition of a single.

Just to get this out of the way, Hate That... (Q108291006) is a single and Stereotype (Q108544577) IS NOT a single.

Hate That... (Q108291006) is a single because it is released as a single. We can see this on music streaming platforms. YouTube Music and Spotify have dedicated pages for the single because it is a single. A single on these platforms is a release that is 1-3 songs and SM Entertainment decided to release this as a single on these platforms. This single contains the song Hate That... (Q108291170). The main lesson is: A song is not a single and can only be part of a single. (Also, Key released this single, as it says on YouTube Music, so they are the only one that should be the performer on the single. Taeyeon goes on the song item with Key).

Now, why is Stereotype (Q108544577) not a single? The reason? NME IS WRONG. I'm extremely aware that for every freaking KPOP release, NME calls the title song of the release the "lead single". This is confusing and wrong. These words should not be substituted for each other. Nobody else in the music industry defines a song as a single. A single is a "music release collection of 1-3 songs", not a "promoted song on an album". NME just doesn't do their homework in seeing if if the title song is every released as part of a single maybe before the mini album or album, and instead calls it a single every time.

We can see that Stereotype (Q108544577) is not a single. On music streaming platforms, it is only released as part of the Stereotype EP. We can see that on YouTube Music. We can also see this on STAYC's artist page. There is no single for Stereotype.

So, does this mean that I'm calling out a major music news publication and a tradition on Wikipedia, maybe creating chaos? Yes, I am. I have reviewed this problem with User:Moebeus and both of us agree that we are not going to call these songs that are called "singles" on Wikipedia "singles" on Wikidata. It would utterly destroy the data model because that would mean there would be 2 definitions for single, and 2 items would have to be created. Yall on Wikipedia can keep calling them singles if you like and have your shiny false-singles lists (the accurate list on Musicbrainz shows what are actually singles), but Wikidata will not disrupt it's data scheme.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh. This trend on Wikipedia is just really frustrating though because it creates so much chaos.

Thoughts? Lectrician1 (talk) 20:09, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lectrician1 Firstly, please discuss the logic of yours with the entire community (preferably on Wikipedia:Wikiproject Music) and with more experienced editor to gain strong community consensus rather than two way discussion with newly registered editor (which only has overall of 12 edits which strangely I can't find the discussion that you are talking about or what your have agreed on either, if it happened off-wiki then please read WP:OFF else no other editor would have discussion to reference to, to judge whether what was mentioned was true or false) before going around and changing it to whatever you deemed as appropriate or correct. If you have already do (which I can't seem to find from your contributions logs), please kindly wikilink the discussion here.

Stereotype is a single, it is the lead single of the EP of the same name. Btw, I didn't follow NME just because they wrote in their article that it is lead single but I'm simply just following the older/recent releases from other K-pop groups album/EP be it their lead single having the same name or not, and also referencing GA article such The Boys (Girls' Generation song), Umpah Umpah, and Psycho (Red Velvet song) or if you prefer more recent non-GA ones like Life Goes On (BTS song).

In short, my point is the short-description is correct which is "20XX single by X", and also the "instance of".

Lastly, if you don't reply within 3 days, the archiving bot will automatically archive this discussion. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:21, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah I'm aware you're following the trend of other songs. A lot of those would not be considered singles either unfortunately, so changing the scheme on Wikipedia might have some extreme effects on a number of article and singles discography pages. I'll sort that out in this WP:Music discussion I created.

Here is a previous discussion I had with WP:Music when I first was confused why KPOP songs were marked as singles. After this discussion, I came away with the wrong conclusion that single has "two definitions" (a single can be a type of release or song) and sought to revise the Single article to include this "second definition". After doing more research trying to find evidence, I realized that every single on Wikipedia except KPOP singles are correctly labeled as singles and that this following of a "trend"/NME might be the root of the problem. I discussed this with Moebeus on a Telegram private chat 3 days ago because we're about the only two who deal with discography-related things for WP:Music on Wikidata. We came to a conclusion that en-wiki was the problem. Then after your recent edits regarding singles on Wikidata, I had to respond to them. Lectrician1 (talk) 12:46, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lectrician1 Firstly, NME has nothing to do with this at all, I'm not sure where and how you came a conclusion that NME is main/primary culprit. Secondly, as I have mentioned above in my reply, you can't have two-way discussion off-wiki as per WP:OFF, any form of discussion pertaining to English Wikipedia has to be on-wiki especially such controversial topic/discussion. Neither does your off-wiki discussion carries any weight to the changes you want to be make because community consensus is required, in addition the discussion serves as a form of references in which involved editors, non-involved editors, and future editors can refer to, for instance when there is conflict. Thirdly, there isn't any "we're about the only two who deal with discography-related things for WP:Music on Wikidata", anyone is allowed to collaborate on Wikidata as long as the edits made are constructive and doesn't fall into vandalism or disruptive editing area. And from what I can see is that you are also newly registered editor hence that argument/logic of "we're about the only two who deal with discography-related things for WP:Music on Wikidata" is irrelevant because before you even registered, there are already other editors creating the items hence that argument/logic/thinking is completely wrong. Fourthly, as mentioned in earlier sentence, community consensus is required for such controversial changes, you don't come to conclusion in a two-way private/off-wiki discussion, not sure where you even get that idea that from. Finally, I will read though the discussion on WikiProject Music, and I don't wish to see you making any changes from "singles" to "songs" (be it short-description or instance of) when there is no community consensus yet else I would have to report this matter to Administrator for further actions to be taken. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Kris Wu

Hi, I changed the his active years because I did that based on the Kris Wu's Wikipedia page of Chinese version. As the information I found and read from the Chinese Media, Kris's company got dismissed due to the sexual scandal, all of the music, dramas that included are also canceled by the media.Which means that Kris had been officially canceled and banned in China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackson1260 (talk • contribs) 04:12, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Jackson1260 Please provide reliable source to support the changes you want to be make. In addition, we don't reference what other language Wikipedia are doing. Lastly, "As the information I found and read from the Chinese Media, Kris's company got dismissed due to the sexual scandal, all of the music, dramas that included are also canceled by the media.Which means that Kris had been officially canceled and banned in China", this are your original research and your own thoughts which violates WP:NPOV. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Questions about editing

Hello. I saw Your messages for my edits about some of Twice's songs. I just wanted to add information for Japanese versions of Feel Special and More & More + English versions of More & More and I Can't Stop Me. Can You please add them again, but with your way? (P.S. Please add Yes, I am Jihyo in Jihyo's English Wikipedia). - Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikolai Boyanov (talk • contribs) 10:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Nikolai Boyanov As per the edit summary and the warnings on your talk page, I told you to provide reliable source which you didn't. Hence if you want to add it back, provide reliable source and there shouldn't be any issues at all. This is not just with your edit on Jihyo or Feel Special, "More & More" and "I Can't Stop Me" but on every single articles on Wikipedia that you edit, whatever new content especially new sentence, new word, new paragraph you added requires you to provide reliable sources to back it up whether it is not fact or not as per WP:FACTCHECK and WP:VERIFY. In addition, I have replied you previously regarding to the same issues of not providing reliable sources in User talk:Paper9oll/Archive 4#Jihyo just last month only. Please go and re-read the entire Welcome Guide posted at the top of your talk page and all of its links. Lastly, I don't wish to see you continue adding new content without even providing a single reliable source moving forward else I would have to report you to WP:ANI for continuously adding unsourced materials despite multiple warnings to not do so. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:58, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Update the aespa's list of awards and nominations.

Hello! May i ask if you can add aespa's new nomination on the list? Like can you add 'U+ IDOL LIVE Popularity Award' for The Fact Music Awards 2021. Thank you so much. Here is the link of votings and source: https://global.idollive.tv/board/vote/2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wwiinn 127 (talk • contribs) 01:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@Wwiinn 127  Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:32, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Rejected edit to "Harry Partch's 43-tone scale"

Hi. I edited the page "Harry Partch's 43-tone scale" since the information provided was inaccurate. The section "Construction" states that Harry Partch chose the 11-limit "because the 11th harmonic is the first that is utterly foreign to Western ears". This is not at all true. He chose the 11-limit precisely because it was not foreign--not to him, at least. He stopped at 11 was because the 13th harmonic sounded foreign. He conceded that it could be a potentially serviceable pitch, but, in the quote I provided, he suggests that the 7th and 11th harmonics provided so much new material to work with that he had no need of going to the 13th harmonic. The previous writer was entirely mistaken on this claim, and the subsequent comments are irrelevant to the article--especially considering that the original claim was false. I learned this from https://www.kylegann.com/PartchKeynote.html and Bob Gilmore's book "Harry Partch: A Biography".209.2.47.14 (talk) 20:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@209.2.47.14 Your edit was rejected because you removed citations (2 to be exact) without valid reason in doing so. I would recommend you to request the changes you want to be make on Talk:Harry Partch's 43-tone scale using WP:EDITREQUEST by adding {{request edit}} above your request rationale. Make sure to provide reliable source to support your rationale, a editor will come by and answer the request in due course. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Filmography or Videography?

But it is not filmography, it's videography. But if I made a mistake, please fix other Blackpinks members videography sections, thank you. clipred (talk) 04:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Clipred Both are the same thing. In addition, not sure why you think Blackpink's member articles needs to be different from every other article K-pop singer articles. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:43, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Clipred For now, we maintain as Year column first and Title column next for the music videos subsection. I have created a discussion on WT:ACTOR#Music videos, you can go and there participate as there are mixed styling so my revert/judgement may be wrong. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:00, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Also, the Music video section at Blackpink videography and Twice videography are also did not follow WP:Filmography. clipred (talk) 05:01, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Clipred Yes, understood which was why I created discussion to further clarify as there are mixed styling used throughout. You can give your comments over there or which styling should be follow and if music videos should be listed separate under videography section. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:03, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Clipred It was referring to this newly created discussion in case you missed the link in the reply above. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:07, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. clipred (talk) 05:07, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

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Next Level (Aespa song)

Hi once again Paper9oll! I wanna ask you something regarding the article, Next Level (Aespa song). I do have a plan someday to nominate it for a good article. However one problem is that the song is under the rule of WP:COVERSONG, which means that Next Level by Aespa should be under the article under "Next Level (A$ton Wyld)" [if nominated for GA]. But the version isn't notable enough and sources are very insufficient compared to Aespa's. Would adding a A$ton Wyld version under Aespa despite A$ton Wyld being the original singer be okay? Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you so much once again! :)ReVeluv02 (talk) 11:58, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

@ReVeluv02 I don't see why A$ton Wyld version should be added or expanded in the article given that Aespa version is certainly much more popular and has intensive coverage internationally as compared to Wyld ones which isn't well known before Aespa release. In addition, the length is also 1 minute+ longer for Aespa ones. In my opinion, there shouldn't be an issue if you decided to nominate it for GA. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:21, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

@ReVeluv02 Adding on, I think you misread WP:COVERSONG as it is referring to the cover song section. Meaning, if the same song covered by another artists is notable enough to be mentioned in the article of the song released by the original artists, then it can be included by shouldn't be too long. Take "Close to Me" covered/remixed but Red Velvet for example, in the "Close to Me" article, the Red Velvet remix section is actually what WP:COVERSONG is referring to. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:35, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Oh! Thank you for your clarification! This means a lot! Sorry for the inconvenience that I may have caused you. Moreover, I'm planning to nominate the article if it reaches about 1 year since there would be a lot to add on the article such as "Accolades" on the future. Thank u once again! Have a great weekend too (*pertaining to your reply on my talk page)!! :) ReVeluv02 (talk) 12:41, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

@ReVeluv02 No problem. Glad it helps. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2021).

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Please give accurate edit summaries

Paper9oll, "cleanup" is not what you did. Adding a whole paragraph to a commercial performance section and reformatting citations to your preferred method or way of laying them out is not "cleaning up" anything. Please start accurate describing what you actually did in an edit otherwise I will conclude you are attempting to mislead others. Also, as I said to another editor yesterday, you can add a date onto the end of http://billboard.co.kr/chart/week/ all you like, but it's pointless—the website does not use dates in its URL. Appending anything after billboard.co.kr/chart/week/ will always show the current week. I'm in disbelief you went out of your way to archive a URL with a date in it that makes no difference whether it's there or not, like you know better or can do better at archiving charts than I can. Stop changing things for the sake of changing things, whether you do it a minute or hours after I edit an article. It's annoying. I don't care whether you expand a page, but don't change the citations I add to articles for the sake of it, or call adding a whole 1,000 bytes "cleanup". Ss112 04:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ss112 Looking back, I should have use "Updated" instead ... my bad. I can't be bothered with what you said to another editor on whatever URL styling as that's how it is rendered for me (at least that's how Twitter linked it, that's how my browser opened it, that's how my browser's address bar displayed it, that's how my OS copied and pasted the URL) neither is that going to change my citing style just because you feel/think that's unnecessary. Btw, I didn't go the extra mile or even millimeter to add the date to the archive URL ... introducing to you Wayback Machine addon for Firefox or Wayback Machine extension for Chrome/Edge, just a click and it's archived. "Stop changing things for the sake of changing things, whether you do it a minute or hours after I edit an article" – 🤦‍♂️ this ****ing sentence again ... ain't you bored. Lastly, stop bothering me with such minor issues that you don't see eye to eye with, such as with your rant on that super minor URL differences ... can't believe you made a mountain out of a molehill and stressing and pissing yourself off by typing it out ... could have just mentioned my edit summaries ain't accurate enough and period. Here have a 🍺. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:06, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Great, so you have an extension that automatically archives websites. So what? If it's such a minor URL difference, why did you feel the need to change my citation at all when the page was already archived and you could see I already archived it? "That's how Twitter linked it"? What Twitter account are we talking about? Why would you need to get the URL off of Twitter? Also, could you maybe develop a bit better of a tone? WP:TONEITDOWN: "If you're using vulgarities, you're almost certainly making a mistake." Censoring yourself or not. Being professional is part of the Wikipedia policy on WP:CIVILITY. Why are you speaking like you're on Twitter and using emojis at me? We're not on Twitter. Also, yes, I am bored. I'm bored of you editing directly after me to take issue with my edits, like you have something to prove or can do things like archive charts better than me. I'm not pissing myself off by typing it out; as several messages now have detailed, your actions are doing it for me. Aren't you bored about editing directly after me or other editors to "fix" things I or they have done that didn't need to be "fixed"? Don't you have better things to do? Well, go do them. Stop fussing about whether I put the citation parameters in the right place on your current favourite song's article. Let it be. Wikipedia's never going to look perfect or how you want it to. You don't own the articles you create, so there's no need to micromanage them to the level you do. By the way, it seems you've now given up pretending micromanaging is not what you're doing, but instead just essentially asking me if I'm bored of complaining. I wouldn't have things to complain about here if you didn't provide them. Ss112 10:11, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ss112

1. "Great, so you have an extension that automatically archives websites. So what?" – Seriously? ... you yourself said "I'm in disbelief you went out of your way to archive a URL with a date in it that makes no difference whether it's there or not, like you know better or can do better at archiving charts than I can." ... and now you are telling me "so what" after I told you what I used to archive and where I gotten the source from.
2. "why did you feel the need to change my citation at all when the page was already archived and you could see I already archived it" – I simply replaced it and without even checking your version ... I edited top-down not bottom-up ... will use back your citation's data values as much as possible in the future.
3. "Why would you need to get the URL off of Twitter" – How is this your problem??? You my parent or guardian??? I'm certainly not living in North Korea.
4. "could you maybe develop a bit better of a tone" – Certainly would like have a better tone, if there wasn't constant bombing of "mountain out of a molehill" discussion which are written to escalate the tension as suppose to the opposite.
5. "using emojis at me?" – Don't see any guidelines nor policies that emoji are banned. Sometimes, picture says a thousand words.
6. "I'm bored of you editing directly after me to take issue with my edits, like you have something to prove or can do things like archive charts better than me" – Like I've repeated like 10 times or even more (pretty sure, it is certainly more than 5 times), you need to stop being paranoid and thinking you are the only one that can edit exclusively in the same area.
7. "Aren't you bored about editing directly after me or other editors to "fix" things I or they have done that didn't need to be "fixed"?" – The same sentence with same meaning again ... read point 6.
8. "Don't you have better things to do? Well, go do them" – Certainly have ... which was I didn't edit directly after you such as with Loco (Itzy song) which I actually edited 4 days after you added the first chart position but instead you decided to have repeat the same thing over and over again ... just to find someone to argue??? ... repeating point 4, certainly would have better tone if it wouldn't for the same thing over and over again.
9. "Wikipedia's never going to look perfect or how you want it to – That's your own thinking/logic ... well of course, there isn't any perfect answer for this well ... I certainly disagree with that statement.
10. "You don't own the articles you create" – Ya I know this.
11. "so there's no need to micromanage them to the level you do" – Ain't micromanaging.
12. "By the way, it seems you've now given up pretending micromanaging is not what you're doing, but instead just essentially asking me if I'm bored of complaining" – Well well well ... putting words in my mouth ... since when I said that. I was quoting your "Stop changing things for the sake of changing things, whether you do it a minute or hours after I edit an article" and replying if you are not bored, repeating the same thing over and over.
13. "I wouldn't have things to complain about here if you didn't provide them" – I'm pretty sure, you would be back here again with the same thing despite what I have explained over and over again. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:33, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't think a 13-point break-down of each sentence I said was necessary. My point about Twitter was why would somebody need to get the latest Billboard Korea K-pop Hot 100 chart from Twitter? Why wouldn't you just go to the website itself when you know it updates? It was a simple question. I don't know why you're mentioning North Korea, or acting like somebody can't ask a question without it seeming like they're acting like your "parent or guardian". Also never said emojis can't be used (and you were just telling me to not put words into your mouth?), I said you weren't speaking professionally by acting like you're replying at me on Twitter all argumentatively with emojis and censored swearing. Of course no editor thinks what they do is micromanaging, but that's literally what it is when somebody changes all of what a previous editor has added to a page. I don't think only I can edit things. I wouldn't be trying to tell you this while thinking only I can edit a page. There's a distinct difference between if I had said "only Ss112 can edit this page now that they've added something!" and the fact that "Paper9oll will come back onto pages hours, sometimes minutes, after somebody's added a chart position, move and reformat their citations". Regardless, you've heeded my initial second point in saying "will use back your citation's data values as much as possible in the future", so this is just pointless arguing now. Thank you. Ss112 13:43, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Content splitting regarding enhypen awards

Award season is coming. Of course they are going to get nominated for many things in those that's why beforehand only i made a new page. Data For Life (talk) 04:12, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

@Data For Life Please read WP:CRYSTAL. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:01, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Gone

Hi, I just wanted to ask that how do we determine if a song was released as a single or not. My question is mainly pertaining to "Gone". Does release of M/V makes it as a single release? -ink&fables «talk» 05:56, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

@-ink&fables Yes and No for M/V part. For "Gone", if i'm not wrong, the press actually called it "single". For single, normally if it's not part of album then it is considered as single or it's pre-released before the album. If released as part of album, either the first or second track is normally the lead single, the rest are just normal track/non-single. If the agency or press called mentioned there are double title track/single then whichever is mentioned can be listed as single. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:13, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Okay, Thanks :-) -ink&fables «talk» 10:30, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I have a question

I have a question. For example: This is an article, then I linked a word that redirects here. Is that ok, or no need because it redirects here? Thanks. Ctrlwiki (talk) 02:15, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Ctrlwiki see WP:SELFRED EN-Jungwon 02:24, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Change aespa photo on Wikipedia

Hello, I'm sorry if I suddenly contact you, i just wanna ask for an help, can you please change the photo of aespa on wikipedia? The photo of aespa was from their radio appearance back then in 2020, can you please change it to their group photo teaser for savage album? Thank you Dįñßæ (talk) 11:38, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

@Dįñßæ No. Please read WP:IUP and WP:COPYVIO. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:43, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

@Dįñßæ I have also added Welcome Guide with every useful links, it is highly recommended to read every single links on the Getting Started and Policies and Guidelines. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:45, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

So, we can not change the photo whatever we want? Because of the copyright? Dįñßæ (talk) 11:45, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

@Dįñßæ Yes. The current image is licensed under Creative Commons hence it's usable. However, do note that, this doesn't mean an image is usable if another website ripped off an original copyrighted image and re-licensed it under Creative Commons, such acts is considered as licence laundering which will still get the image deleted. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:48, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

So, is there any other way that the photo of aespa in Wikipedia can change to the new one? Dįñßæ (talk) 22:21, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@Dįñßæ Yes and No. There are indeed newer image licensed under Creative Commons however the current one isn't actually broken hence I don't see any reason to change it. The girls still looks the same and hasn't has any radical changes. Ever heard of If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you really want to fix it, then refer to Commons:Category:Aespa in 2021, however in my opinion, even through I'm the one that uploaded them, none of the group image looks as good as current one due to how the camera are positioned and also the microphone blocking portion of their face. And of course, some shots of the member's face are quite unglam. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:29, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Update the aespa's list of awards and nominations.

Hello! May i ask if you can add aespa's new nomination on the list? Like can you add 'K-Pop Female Group' for BreakTudo Awards 2021. Thank you so much. Here is the link of votings and source: https://twitter.com/breaktudoawards/status/1443685297808678914?t=RacT2zfXQemhXKTmrIla1Q&s=19 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wwiinn 127 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done Award isn't notable enough. The article for the award has also been deleted as per AfD discussion. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:18, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand why my changes on Irene wikipedia is always rejected

Hello, Paper9oll. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience I caused for my edits in Irene wikipedia page. I don't understand what I did wrong on my editing, I'm new on editing wikipedia pages. Could you please enlighten me on some tips. I really want to provide some help in editing wikipedia pages. I just really don't understand what went wrong with my edit, what is consider reliable source? Please help, thank you.Jy27ting (talk) 08:16, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Jy27ting I have added Welcome Guide and the 3 messages already contains the links to what is considered as reliable source. For your convenience, read WP:RS and WP:VERIFY. In addition, for Korean-related articles, there is a list of sources that are considered as reliable and also unreliable source, see WP:KO/RS. What you added to Irene (singer) is all supported by unreliable sources and/or self-published sources (self-published sources doesn't means you are the one that published them). In addition, please avoid using YouTube as sources, like you did with Irene (singer). YouTube are generally allowed as long as it is published by the agencies themselves and not fan-generated or fan-reposted, they are mostly used for music videos. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:31, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Hendery

Hello, Paper9oll,

If a draft article has been approved by an AFC reviewer and moved into the main space of the project, please do not move it back to Draft space, even if it doesn't meet your standards. The AFC team works with content creators to get drafts into an acceptable state. You can always choose to improve an article, tag it for any problems you see or start a discussion on the article talk page if you believe there are serious problems. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:38, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

@Liz Hi, understood. I will filed for AfD request instead, as the article clearly doesn't meet either WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO requirements. All of the sources/content mentioned in the article, is about his activities with NCT (group) or WayV, showing lack of independent notability. I'm also very puzzle why the draft gets acceptable into mainspace despite failing to meet either requirements, in fact, I can argue that Draft:Kim So-jung (actress) could also be accepted as well if we really want to argue that Hendery article for weird reasons without showing independent notability is acceptable. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:43, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Question

Hi good day! I choose you to answer this question, because you are one of the fastest responders to any discussions. Are there any rules in Wikipedia that files (photos) cannot be used in "draftspace" and "personal sandbox" even if it's licensed? Ctrlwiki (talk) 15:03, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki Hi good day, I think it is allowed to use non-free and Creative Commons/Flickr licensed images for draftspace as I seen articles on draftspace having such types of images before. For personal sandbox, I'm not too sure about it, but I did recalled another editor reverted my revision on my sandbox before, stating not allow or something. Maybe, you want to double check on WP:TEAHOUSE or WP:HELPDESK. Cheers! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC

Problems with archiving Billboard Japan URLs?

Hey Paper9oll. Can you recall having/do you have ongoing problems with archiving Billboard Japan URLs? Most weeks I usually try to archive the links I get from the website, but (and particularly the Hot Albums list), the Wayback website always gives me the error that "the server did not respond in time". If I try again, it's the same error, until I've tried to archive it enough and then it says "this URL has already been archived 10 times today". I then try to type the URL into the search function, but it shows it still hasn't been archived. Just wondering if you have this error using your Firefox add-on. Ss112 03:53, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ss112 Yup, same issues encountered. Normally, I try it few hours later or 1 day later. Not exactly sure, what is the issue with wayback machine but it does sometimes malfunction for certain website for no reason. If it still fails after trying again in few hours later or 1 day later, then will have to use https://archive.today. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:06, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Need Help

Hello Paper9oll! I needed a bit of help from you. I was editing an article, but I got stuck on the reference part (ref no.29). Can you please help me with this? I cannot pinpoint out my mistake with the access dates. I gave the url of the site below, and Thank You :)

Republic Records#Republic Records revival: 2012–present

Gidlexneverland (talk) 11:12, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

@Gidlexneverland  Done, the problem occured because you forgotten to put space between the comma and the year (for example April 9, 2020 instead of April 9,2020). And also, for single digit date, indicate as for example, April 9 instead of April 09 else it will return error. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:41, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Page move

I provided explanations to Jimin's page २ तकर पेप्सी (talk) 03:16, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

@२ तकर पेप्सी Your explanation is invalid because it is a controversial move, please open WP:RM#CM instead. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:39, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2021

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Administrators' newsletter – November 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2021).

Administrator changes

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• Toolhub is a catalogue of tools which can be used on Wikimedia wikis. It is at https://toolhub.wikimedia.org/.

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• GeneralNotability, Mz7 and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2021 Arbitration Committee Elections. Ivanvector and John M Wolfson are reserve commissioners.
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• The 2021 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process has concluded with the appointment of five new CheckUsers and two new Oversighters.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:44, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Aespa single covers

A tag has been placed on Category:Aespa single covers indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Watchlist

How many pages can I put on my watchlist. Is there a limit? —It'sCtrlwiki • talk • 05:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki Yes, there is a limit but I'm not sure what is the exact figure. I currently have around 3500 pages from various spaces (mainspaces, talkspace, wikipedia space, template space, etc) in my watchlist. I have seen one editor mentioned they have 20,000+ pages in their watchlist before so shouldn't have any issues. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:29, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for maintaining and updating the wiki page for Kim Yoo-Jung. You are amazing!

Just a note to say that I appreciate you. Hope you will add more information about Kim Yoo-Jung's most recent kdrama, Lovers of the Red Sky, to her Wikipedia page soon. Thank you. 2607:FB91:1492:C30A:B11F:4BE5:D8CF:D85E (talk) 08:07, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Participation in a signpost interview

Hi Paper9oll, hope that you're well. I was wondering if you'd be able to participate in a Signpost interview in your capacity as a contributor to WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers? I am enthusiastic about these interviews because they help remind other Wikipedians about the passionate and diverse group of volunteers that edit Wikipedia, and into the many discussions and editors that inhabit our space, nooks and crannies. If you had time to even answer a few questions here (User:Tom (LT)/sandbox/WikiProject actors and filmmakers interview draft) I'd be very grateful :).Tom (LT) (talk) 22:24, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

BTS v

BTS V wiki page is not updated for years. It needs updation. I am here to help. But please 2409:4042:4D82:A43E:0:0:D68A:ED0C (talk) 05:41, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

@2409:4042:4D82:A43E:0:0:D68A:ED0C To request changes to V (singer), please follow the instruction at WP:EDITREQUEST#Making requests. Alternatively, you can use Edit Request Wizard to assists you. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:14, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

YG Entertainment

@Paper9oll gurl i dont understand u, quit using google translate! if the picture was located in another section previously there is no need to move it up to the infobox. there's a huge difference between yg and apple - apple is an international corporation and yg is an international music label. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvcquemus (talk • contribs) 04:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

@Jvcquemus Firstly, I'm a Male not Female, pretty sure I indicated it on my user page if you even bothered reading it. Secondly, I'm not even using Google Translate, maybe you're hence you don't understand, what I'm saying.

1. "If the picture was located in another section previously there is no need to move it up to the infobox. – I'm pretty sure I told you on your talk page in this revision that the image in YG Entertainment#Subsidiaries is "their former headquarters", and also if you even bothered reading the image's caption, it's stated as quote "Former YG Entertainment headquarter in Seoul, currently occupied by The Black Label" so both images are not the same. The image added to Infobox by RuptureStriker as good faith edit is YG Entertainment current headquarter which isn't even in the same location nor is it the same building.
2. "there's a huge difference between yg and apple - apple is an international corporation and yg is an international music label." – No there isn't any huge differences as far as English Wikipedia is concerned of, both articles uses the same Infobox template which is Template:Infobox company hence your logic doesn't make any sense at all.

— Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:15, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Userpage

You put a template to your userpage to create a beautiful user page, how did you do that? Is that a template not? because it has a bracket. —It'sCtrlwiki • talk • 00:42, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki Yes, it is template under Userspace, meaning your User:USERNAME/PAGENAME (replace username with your username and pagename with whatever you want to name your template on your own userspace, so for example User:Ctrlwiki/ABC.) After you're done with the page, you can then include it onto User:Ctrlwiki by enclosing it with double bracket with the page name as the parameter, for example {{User:Ctrlwiki/ABC}}. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:28, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Because later I will create another user subpage, and within that page, I will create an information about myself, and I will place that subpage into my userpage like what you did into your userpage (just like a template). Am I breaking any rules if I made this? Thanks in advance—It'sCtrlwiki • talk • 01:44, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki I don't think so, just don't make it exactly similar else other editors will get suspicious for WP:SOCKING, thanks you for your understanding. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean by "dont make it exactly similar"? —It'sCtrlwiki • talk • 01:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki As in, don't copy the layout exactly. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Which layout? Sorry, I don't really understand—It'sCtrlwiki • talk • 01:53, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki Erm, it is hard to describe and explain. For the lead section, if you're planning to copy and modify, please try to paraphrase your version, so we don't have exactly similar style of writing. The table is probably alright. Useful references section, if you're planning to copy, please modify it. FAQ section is my own crafted explanation, so I don't see why you would want to copy it, if you're planning to. And lastly, Infobox, is my own crafted version, there is a universal Template:Infobox Wikipedian if you interested in including one. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 02:02, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Don't worry, I will not copy your userpage, I will modify my own userpage. Thanks a lot—It'sCtrlwiki • talk • 02:10, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki No problem, happy editing! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 02:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Jo Se-Ho

Hey, okay i know i sounded biased and judgmental in some of my other edits of the page but in the last one i was not! It was simply information and i didn't even interpret it in any way exempt for sayin that it looked as if there was no bad blood there in the end. I even put it in a "controversies" pale, making sure people know that this is an issue that probably has two sides of the story and that everybody will agree with each other. Why did you say i violated the un-biased rule? Didi11235 (talk) 04:03, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Didi11235 I would highly recommend you to read WP:NPOV and WP:CONTROVERSY. Your writing is non-neutral and has biased tone. In addition, provide reliable source to support the content, otherwise it cannot be included on English Wikipedia as per WP:VERIFY and WP:BLP. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:44, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

The reason why I removed the content

Hello Paper9oll! The reason why I removed some content about Choi Yu-jin (singer) is that I felt her positions in CLC very unnecessary to add as people could just look at it on CLC (group)'s Wikipedia page instead, & also because CLC future as a group doesn't look very bright, so her positions in the group Kep1er would seem to be more important and to be more focused on.

Thank you for the message - Utokki Utokki (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

@Utokki Don't remove positions unnecessary. In addition, even if the singer has departed from CLC or if CLC disband in the future, the positions should still be retained, only need to update the tense. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:55, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Jessica Jung

Hello, I think you made a mistake. Please take a look at my changes: The sentence "Name of the award ceremony, year presented, category, nominee of the award, and the result of the nomination" is absolutely unnecessary, and the column "Award", why are they grey? Also, the table needn't be sortable, and the column "year" is narrow enough not to aligh-center. Please give an reasonable explanation, thank you. Vldgemini (talk) 12:12, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@Vldgemini Styling is following design of List of awards and nominations received by BTS which has Featured lists-class. The same design is also used on various other articles such as List of awards and nominations received by Girls' Generation, List of awards and nominations received by Twice, List of awards and nominations received by Blackpink and many more updated articles. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Lovelyz

Hello, please understand that I am writing a comment with the help of a translator because English is not my first language. (but not 100% translator)

The Korean Wikipedia is already talking about Lovelyz document and concluded that maintaining the current state, not saying Lovelyz is in disbandment, of the document. (but as Indefinite hiatus)

Woollim Entertainment didn't say that the group is disbanded. (just woollim mentioned that the contract period had ended) After all members, except the group's leader Baby Soul, decided not to renew their contracts and left Woollim Entertainment, but have stated that they haven't disbanded.

In short, it is in the same state as Girl's Day or Girls' Generation.--121.133.40.84 (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

+Yoo Ji-ae'(one of the members)s new agency, YG KPlus, said this on its official Instagram.([1]) Let me translate the first sentence.

YG KPLUS is here together with "Lovelyz's Yoo Ji-ae" (@9.3.0521), who makes everyone smile with her unique charm.(not sure 100% exact translation, but it is sure that they still reffers as "Lovelyz's Yoo Ji-ae"--121.133.40.84 (talk) 18:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

@Special:Contributions/121.133.40.84 If you can't provide a single WP:Reliable source that isn't WP:Original research then the answer is no, you can't change it to whatever you like it to be. There's no need for you, to show me, what's the members thoughts, you need to provide reliable source preferably from the Woollim newsroom as primary source or via secondary reliable news sources for WP:Verifiability. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:24, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

The Instagram ([2]) that I linked is the official statement of Ji-Ae's new agency, not member's Instagram and Korean Wikipedia, [3], they decided to describe

1. Lovelyz's agency and members have not officially announced their disbandment, so keep the "members" mark.
2. The year of activity is marked as "2014 to 2021 (Indefinite hiatus)" considering the year of the debut album release to the last year of activity.

So don't call my contributions as the vandalism.--121.133.40.84 (talk) 03:17, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

and i have a news link i will add the reference--121.133.40.84 (talk) 03:21, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Special:Contributions/121.133.40.84 As per what I mentioned above, if you even bothered reading the various linked links, which I believed you didn't even bothered to. Instagram is not considered as an reliable source, you should either provide a primary source from Woollim Entertainment themselves via their Official Website or provide a secondary reliable source that stated Lovelyz did not disband explictly otherwise your changes cannot be made as per WP:PROVEIT, WP:VERIFY, and WP:RELIABLESOURCE.

In addition, what other languages Wikipedia (not just referring to Korean Wikipedia) does, is not within English Wikipedia concerns, they have their own sets of rules and guidelines which are separate and different from English Wikipedia ones. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:27, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Whoops, The editing was overlapped.

I posted a link to Woollim's statement through the media. Woollim Entertainment almostly doesn't have news themselves via their Official Website. There is a "notice" section([4]), but as you can see, it is rarely used.

Whatever, here you go. [5] I partially translated (official annocuntment part) by translator.

On the 1st (of November, because news release date was November 1), Woollim Entertainment officially announced, "The exclusive contract between us and Lovelyz members will expire on November 16, 2021," adding, "After a long in-depth discussion and consideration, Lovelyz members Yoo Ji-ae, Seo Ji-soo, Lee Mi-joo, Kei, Jin, Ryu Soo-jung, and Jeong Ye-in decided to prepare for another start."

Among Lovelyz members, Babysoul renewed his contract based on his long-standing trust, he added. "As a helper for Babysoul, who has been with us for a long time, we will spare full support for his new leap forward and active activities."

Woollim said, "As an artist belonging to Woollim Entertainment, I thank the eight members of Lovelyz for shining the company and doing their best over the past seven years, and I sincerely support the new start of the members."

There is no mention about disbandment.--121.133.40.84 (talk) 03:36, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

+[6] title is translated as "Lovelyz's Ryu Su-Jeong and Flex M(Kakao subsidiary label) will hold hands and open the second act."--121.133.40.84 (talk) 05:39, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Special:Contributions/121.133.40.84 Upon quite a few hours of intensive, searching around, it does seem that the term "disband" is coined by the news media themselves rather than Woollim Entertainment. I have make changes to the article, but no guarantee, it won't get reverted, I have left a note in the edit summary to request the reverting editor (whoever it is) to open discussion on Talk:Lovelyz instead to discuss further. In the event, that happened, please leave your comments there. Thanks you and have a good weekend! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:32, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Thx! Can I request something? i want to "movepage" mijoo to Lee Mi-joo (like Ryu Su-jeong) Where can i request the movepage?

Because except Baby soul(she also changed to a stage name as Lee Su-jeong, which is her real name, since November 17th, 2021. But there's no article), Kei, JIN, Lovelyz use full name, not the mononym name.--121.133.40.84 (talk) 06:59, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Special:Contributions/121.133.40.84 Please read Wikipedia:Article titles before carrying on, after completed reading it. You can follow the instructions at WP:RSPM to initiate move discussion, after which other editors will come along to give their WP:NOTVOTE comments. The move discussion would be opened to all editors for 7 days or more before it can be closed by either administrators or editors specialized in move requests. In addition, the rationale given has to be acceptable and more detailed instead of your reasoning given above, and also provide 3 sources to support your rationale. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Can we only move page's title when we have to do a move discussion? There are more than three sources, Woollim official site([7]) Korean website Naver profile([8]) and streaming site Melon (online music service)([9]), but it's a huge burden for me to have a discussion.(especially because English is not my first language) In Korean Wikipedia,[10] if it's not something that needs to be discussed in particular, we accept the request. So I can't get used to it.--121.133.40.84 (talk) 07:29, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@121.133.40.84 Please initiate move discussion instead as subject is controversial hence any movement would be contested. In addition, only registered users with sufficient users right can move pages. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Please participate in Talk:Lovelyz#To users who undo this document (disbanded or not)

As you expected, there is some disagreement about your decision. I open the article talk and I need your help.--121.133.40.84 (talk) 03:23, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

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Please review it

Draft:Big Mouse (2022 tvN) Muatsem90 (talk) 08:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

@Muatsem90 Please read my reply in your talk page. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Re: Big Hit Music and Pledis Entertainment reverted unsourced edits

don't remove what i type there cause there are full of source about who agency is distribution of Big Hit Music and Pledis Entertainment and i think you don't want YG Ent of YG Sub be partner in distribution with Pledis artis and Big Hit artist right?성형 수술 (talk) 05:22, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@성형 수술 If you're referring to your now reverted edits to Big Hit Music and Pledis Entertainment, then please read on WP:RS, WP:VERIFY, WP:PROVEIT, and WP:OR. As for "i think you don't want YG Ent of YG Sub be partner in distribution with Pledis artis and Big Hit artist right", I assume you're a fan of YG Entertainment as your sentence and userpage implies as such, hence please read on WP:FANCRUFT, WP:NOT, and WP:NPOV. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:33, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Blackpink image

i don't think several months newer makes a big difference. The one I added is high quality and more professional looking. The other one looks dull and very unflattering (especially Jennie and Rose). I think it should be changed and many blinks don't like the current image too Lori155 (talk) 09:18, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Lori155 No quality isn't higher and newer image should be used. many blinks don't like the current image too – Btw, this is English Wikipedia, not Fandom (website) where you can do whatever you please there, Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not Fandom. And you need stop to going around various articles and changing the lead images, and edit warring over images with multiple editors, all of articles that you had changed images of recently, are perfectly fine and not broken neither are the resolution lower nor blurry. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:52, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Citation Help

how can i insert a proper citation? thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popicks (talk • contribs) 05:16, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Popicks Please read the Welcome Guide I added to your talk page and WP:ERB. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:27, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll she has a little notability in south korea her bio information is not being taken on major news, but i am a her assistant in a studio company and nancy herself has requested to me to give out an edit because she told that the website has some misleading information and more things needed to be added, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popicks (talk • contribs) 05:38, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Popicks As you stated "i am a her assistant in a studio company and nancy herself has requested to me to give out an edit because she told that the website has some misleading information and more things needed to be added", this means that you have conflict of interest hence you cannot edit the article directly, please use Edit Request Wizard to request the changes you want to be made with reliable secondary source provided as per WP:BLP, WP:VERIFY, and WP:PROVEIT, a editor will come by shortly to respond to your request and make the changes on your behalf, only if the request is accepted. In addition, you're required to declare your conflict of interest in your user page as per WP:DISCLOSE. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll there is no much any sources i could provide if that is heavily required i need to tell her that should be published on the news if she got interviewed by any of large major news companies about K-POP by chance, since i am not a news broadcaster or a journalist to any kinds of major news outlets that will serve as a main reliable sources for biography, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popicks (talk • contribs) 06:00, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Popicks As stated above, you have to provide reliable secondary sources to support to the content, you want to be made otherwise they cannot be included. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:03, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll i will take on it, if it doesn't work out i'll have to call someone to substitute me in this job that she is requesting for, the person itself who is in the biography is one who requesting the edits as she said that the information about her was lacking and i am only being hired to edit it for her since she cannot do that to herself as she is busy for her projects and works - @Popicks — Preceding undated comment added 06:08, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Paper9oll the request forum you gave is only when you are about to create an article for someone, the request she is requesting is where they'll have to put some edits for the biography like i have given, in which that was the information dictated to me and i was asked to put it there :@Popicks — Preceding undated comment added 06:19, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Popicks No isn't it for article creation, that is another link. You have click to "I have a conflict of interest", followed by typing in the article title, Nancy (singer), into the input box in either the small requests or large requests section, after that click "Create edit request", you will be redirected to a pre-filled form, type in your request in the form and provide reliable secondary source to support your edit request, once done, click "Publish changes" button, after that, wait for a editor to come by and respond to the request. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll it's difficult to provide any secondary links because we people who are with her who knows her personally and can give accurately correct information instead of relying on foreign news company like ABS-CBN of the philippines, i couldn't find any secondary sources that should be put as a serving sources for the editing of the biography caption, i am an editor based in seoul south korea, as i have said before she'll have to be interviewed by any major news company and she should told that while being interviewing so there would be a reliable sources i can use it and put it as a supporting cite for the biography -@Popicks 10:33 1 December 2021

@Paper9oll i re-edited the biography and provided an acceptable reliable sources for the page, i choose the easier way to settle it out and provide the correct information, but again i am hired only to edit the biography, not my own want request wish to do, i am only doing my job, thank you for your understanding. @Popicks 10:56, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Popicks Pretty sure, I have repeated myself for thrice already. And if you even bothered reading the various pages I've linked, you would understand English Wikipedia stands on such. In short, if you cannot provide secondary reliable source that isn't fail verification then any content you want to be added or updated cannot be done. In addition, as you declared that you've conflict of interest as Nancy's client and/or from Nancy's studio/agency, you cannot edit the article directly without using Edit Request Wizard. Lastly, there's no point arguing and debating with me that there's no secondary reliable source available as I don't own Wikipedia nor are the rules/guidelines set by me.

Alternatively, you can visit WP:TEAHOUSE to get help from other editors. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:09, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll the rules is making the biography difficult to be given an information that will help the article, yes i believe that it does make sense because it protects it very well from the vandalizers but it has also a large disadvantage regarding the site because it doesn't getting any right information that will contribute good information for the article -@Popicks 1 December 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popicks (talk • contribs) 15:02, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll if you want, you can do the edits of your own, if you don't want my given suggestion to be put out for the article, i cannot waste lots of time for the not so large edit that is being assigned to me to edit for her, i cannot focus my whole time here and i have more other important works to take care as well it's not my request wish i am only assigned to edit -@Popicks 1 December 2021 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Popicks (talk • contribs) 15:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Popicks I understand your frustration as I have stated above, the rules/guidelines is not set by me hence there's no point arguing with me nor vent your frustration at me. If you wish to seek help on editing articles such as with Nancy (singer), please visit WP:TEAHOUSE or WP:HELPDESK and ask for help there, as there is nothing much I can help you, however there's no guarantee, the other editors in Teahouse or Help Desk, is able to help you either, if you can't provide a single secondary reliable source that isn't failed verification, in short their answer will be similar to mine.

As I have nothing more to communicate to you nor can I assists you further, this will be my last reply to you. Thanks you and have a great week ahead. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2021).

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:25, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Need help to relaunch my article on correct terms

Hello Paper9oll!

I hope you're doing well. I am writing to you as you were one of the editors who edited or deleted my article on Thierry Gaugain one year ago due to a conflict of interest and the promotional language. I was told that I risk being blocked for good as I made some mistakes that I was unaware of. That is why I want to be careful and relaunch my article correctly. It is about Thierry Gaugain, a french designer who designs high-end travel means such as yachts, private planes, and now his last project is a 400 meters long private train. He also worked with the well-known designer Philippe Starck as a head designer.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/worlds-first-private-luxury-train-concept/index.html

I want to restart on the correct terms as disclosing interest, having a neutral language, etc. Would it be possible to rewrite my article and send it to you to make sure that I avoid the risk of being blocked? I appreciate any help you can provide.Oguler743 (talk) 14:10, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

@Oguler743 Unfortunately, I'm quite busy nowadays hence wouldn't have the time to help out on that. As you mentioned the previous article was deleted due to conflict of interest (COI) and promotional tone then you want to follow the instructions at Article for Creation (AfC) to start creating an article in the draftspace given that editors with COI are recommended to use AfC. If you encountered any problems or needed help, you can ask them at WP:TEAHOUSE or alternatively, you can submit the article after which a reviewing editor will drop by, review it, accept or reject it. If they rejected it, most of the time, they would leave comments on what to improve on, after which, just follow in that path. If they didn't leave any comments or just generic ones, approach them kindly on their talk page on which aspect of the draft should be improved on. Happy editing! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:33, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Thank you for the prompt reply and detailed feedback! Just one last question, when I disclose that the article is for my employer(I am not paid particularly to write a Wikipedia article, I work at his design agency), will that be visible when the article is published? Thanks.--Oguler743 (talk) 16:18, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

@Oguler743 Please read WP:DISCLOSE on the instructions to disclose your COI. And if you're paid to write/contribute to Wikipedia articles, read WP:COIPAYDISCLOSE and WP:PAID for the instructions.

Basically, you need to create your own user page which is at User:Oguler743 (currently it is red link, meaning not yet created), add either {{User disclosure}} or {{UserboxCOI}} to disclosure your COI, and published it. If you're paid, you also need to add {{Paid}} to your user page. You can read about the usage instructions for 3 templates at Template:User disclosure, Template:UserboxCOI, and Template:Paid, respectively.

In addition, in the article's talk page, you need to add {{connected contributor}} (see Template:Connected contributor for template usage instructions), and if you're paid add this {{connected contributor (paid)}} (see Template:Connected contributor (paid) for template usage instructions) only. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:54, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Year Used in Gaon Chart Music Awards

Hi Paper9oll!

With regards to years used in Gaon Chart Music Awards, it is indeed a 2022 year award since the award ceremony would be logically held at that year. However, I formerly wrote the year as 2021 since I was confused as to all the awards would be awarded to artists, albums, songs, etc. to all who have released their music on year 2021. That also goes for previous years which means if a the award year in Wikipedia shows 2019, then it was really 2018 and so on. You could also refer to this link for reference.

This may be out of the topic, but I wanted to express my gratitude for all the contributions you make to a lot of the articles! :) You're the best!ReVeluv02 (talk) 16:35, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@ReVeluv02 Yes, if the award ceremony was held in say for example early 2022 (normally in January), then they are giving out awards for song/album released in the period of either late 2020 to late 2021 or January to December 2021. Take 31st Seoul Music Awards for example, the song/albums that are eligible must be released in January to December 2021 (basically the entire 2021). Whereas for 36th Golden Disc Awards, the song/albums that are eligible must be released in late November 2020 to late November 2021, and for Rookie of the Year award, they must debut in the same period. Both awards ceremony are held in January 2022, similarily GCMA is also held in the same month. Glad you know how the year system works now, and thanks you for the gratitude. Happy editing and have a good weekend! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:09, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Thank you so much for the response! I did understand on how years should be used in an articles (for award ceremonies) but what I meant was that listed on the official website of Gaon: Open this link is that the next award would be year 2021. Should that be followed or should it be 2022? Thank you and sorry for inconvenience. Have a good weekend! ReVeluv02 (talk) 01:59, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

@ReVeluv02 In my opinion, we should use when the award ceremony was held/broadcast physically/virtually rather than the official website version as it doesn't really make sense. Why it doesn't make sense to me is because, take the upcoming 11th Gaon Chart Music Awards for example, the nominations criteria are song/album must be listed on Gaon Music Chart from December 1, 2020, to November 30, 2021, which on their official website, they will list it as 2021 but it should instead be 2020–2021 for precision. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:05, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Thank you so much for the response and clarification! I'll take note of that! :) ReVeluv02 (talk) 05:24, 11 December 2021 (UTC)