Planeis

New to editing Wikipedia. Desire to add detail to sites I'm interested in with proper citations and sources.

File:Cropped image of Patrick Duffy, actor, from the "You Again" premiere on September 24, 2010.jpg

This person is still active, and I hope you can meet Patrick Duffy in person, so you can take a (semi-)free photo of him somewhere in-person. This non-free image is replaceable (fails WP:NFCC#1), so I wonder if you don't mind deletion of this image. --George Ho (talk) 10:09, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes I would mind very much. Are you the person who deleted it? The previous image, and now current image thanks to someone deleting the image I found, is obviously a promotional image from a heavily copyrighted TV show. "Man From Atlantis" is still owned and sold by Warner Bros., therefore having this image is extremely inappropriate. It is also not a proper representation of Patrick Duffy as it gives the impression he has webbed fingers and is a super hero. This is not the "Man From Atlantis" page, its the Patrick Duffy page, so why is his picture this promotional image showing him with webbed fingers? You say that it violates the wikipedia policy, but I don't think it does. Your implying that a free equivalent is available or could be created by me. Clearly since every image of Patrick Duffy that has ever been placed on this page has had flags about copyrights, this is not true. The chances of any individual wikipedia user taking their own picture of Patrick Duffy is extraordinarily slim. I assure you I will NEVER be meeting this person or taking his picture. As I said in my explanation for the picture, I made this image free by editing it down to the smallest, lowest size quality so that the copyright is not hurt and its ONLY purpose is to serve the encyclopedic purpose. From the policy: "Can this non-free content be replaced by a free version that has the same effect?" and "Could the subject be adequately conveyed by properly sourced text without using the non-free content at all?" If the answer to either is yes, the non-free content probably does not meet this criterion.)" - No, it cannot be replaced by a free version. I searched high and low, and I'm positive others did as well since the only images of Patrick Duffy people have been able to find are copyrighted images. The fact that someone took the time to remove my image, so that now the display image is obviously wrong and heavily copyrighted makes no sense whatsoever.Planeis (talk) 12:03, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

The show and a publicity photo are different things. The photo omitted copyright notice, required by and released under Copyright Act of 1909. To be honest, I did try non-free images on BLPs, but I realize that irreplaceability is not possible, unless a person is NOT really active for a long time, and earlier appearance. I'm sure that you can meet Duffy in Comic Con appearances or anywhere else that allows photos by anyone. --George Ho (talk) 12:36, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Also, ask Hullaballoo Wolfowitz; he removed some of photos of living people that I uploaded. --George Ho (talk) 12:45, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm certainly not going to act as if I own the Patrick Duffy page, because its actually not that important to me. Are you the one who removed it? Pictures do not have to contain a copyright directly on the image to be copyrighted. Flip through any magazine and you will find photos taken specifically for that magazine that do not have a copyright notice on each individual photo. Right now you can do a search at allposters.com for images of Patrick Duffy, more photos (much better by the way) will come up for him from Man From Atlantis. None of them have a copyright notice, but clearly they are copyrighted as they are being sold. Also, the image I used does not have a copyright notice directly on the photograph, so by your own reasoning it should be allowed. Did you look at the un-cropped version of this image? The one that has "NBC" and dates prominently displayed? Whatever, its not that important to me. I thought it was very inappropriate that a picture from a heavily copyrighted commercial property, that isn't even representative of who Patrick Duffy is, was the main image on his page. But whatever. Its been there for years so fine. Planeis (talk) 14:02, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Contact we hope; he uploaded it as PD. --George Ho (talk) 16:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I must tell you about copyright law of the United States. Anything made in March 1989 or later is automatically copyrighted. Works between 1978 and 1989 with "<Copyright form> <Year> <Proprietor>" are copyrighted. Each work that omits the notice around that time either requires registration, may be found in small amount of its copies and obtains notice in many others, or have written agreement to bear notice, like "All rights reserved". More found here. Works before 1978 that lack notice (year is optional for pre-1978 photos) in many (if not all) copies may be ineligible for copyright if no correction is made, like registration or correcting errors in other copies.

In this case, if this photo were released by Warner Bros. Television, then let's find other copies released by WB. However, it was released by NBC, the show's distributor, and you don't find registrations of such photos by networks in any records, like old ones from Internet Archive. As for pre-1978 photos from Getty Images, people want profit by claiming "copyright" of old photos that are not theirs. Look at File:Martin Milner George Maharis Route 66 sign.jpg, made in 1962. It already appears in the Getty Images, but the photo itself is out of copyright because either CBS version lacked notice or Screen Gems did not renew this image. --George Ho (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

I found out that Warner Bros. did not produce or distribute it at the time of original airing. Why should it matter? --George Ho (talk) 18:43, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Like I said, I don't particularly care. Its clear to me that the current photo is not in the public domain. If you look at current publicity photos for this show, which is still being sold, you will see that images that appear to be nearly identical to this one are used on front covers of numerous DVD's selling this television show by the current rights holder, Warner Bros. Warner Bros. eventually bought the company that owned this show, that's why they are selling them. An image strikingly similar to this is used on their official materials. If the whole of wikipedia is fine with this ridiculous image, fine. Its a stupid image from a clearly copyrighted work that does not represent the subject, Patrick Duffy, well at all. He has webbed fingers in the picture. Is it wikipedia policy to have images that mis-represent people this way? What if I had an image that I took with my own camera of someone prominent like the President, and then I added in webbed fingers and horns? Would that be appropriate? I would be the copyright holder afterall. No, it wouldn't be fine because it would be mis-representative of what the subject is. But fine. Let this ridiculous photo stay up.Planeis (talk) 19:13, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Then shall I nominate the non-free image for speedy deletion then? I meant the colored one that you uploaded. The B&W is in the public domain because many copies of this photo released by NBC around that time omitted the notice. If you try to nominate that image for deletion, I'll try to defend the B&W photo one and for all. --George Ho (talk) 19:30, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Please do whatever your little heart desires. I feel very confident that you're 100% wrong about this "Man From Atlantis" photo, but do whatever you would like. Don't respond to me here, if you feel the need to discuss it further, put it on the talk page of the actual article. Planeis (talk) 21:15, 13 December 2012 (UTC)