Pob1984

Pob1984 (talk) 01:57, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Edirne

In edit summary for your undoing my edit in Edirne you say "other cities give alt names at start" & "this is an English language article after all". Neither of the other cities I cited (Thessaloniki and Alexandroupolis) give alternative names in the first sentence, and in case of Thessaloniki, not even in the first paragraph. Therefore please re-explain why you undid my edit. Furthermore, could you also explain the connection of this encyclopedia being in English language and your edit? Filanca (talk) 13:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: "other cities give alt names at start"... This is the first sentence of the Thessaloniki article:

"Thessaloniki (Greek: Θεσσαλονίκη, IPA: [θesaloˈniki]), Thessalonica, or Salonica is the second-largest city in Greece and the capital of Macedonia, the nation's largest region"...

I think it is clearer to do the same for Edirne. With regards to English, the English name for Edirne is 'Adrianople' (or more infrequently 'Hadrianopolis') - many English speakers who are probably more familiar with ancient history (e.g. Hadrian) than modern Turkey might only know it as such [e.g. Google books returns 4510, 2554 and 975 books for Adrianople, Edirne and Hadrianopolis respectively]. Therefore, considering this is the English language version of the article, the English (albeit somewhat 'old-fashioned'/traditional) names ought to be noted for clarity [without having to scroll down?], so that readers may easily know it is the same place, and learn about Edirne. I think this is consistent with the principles behind Wikipedia:Naming conventions, although I am no expert wikipedian. Pob1984 (talk) 09:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Filanca"

No. Ehglish name for modern city of Edirne is not "Adrianopole" or "Hadrianopolis". The city's English name, as is in all English Wikipedia articles, is written in the title of the article, ie, "Edirne". If you still claim the name of the city is not Edirne, you should try and change the name of the article. Besides, my objection was to indicating the Greek name in the beginning sentence, so your reply is irrelevant. What I said was, if we indicate Greek names to Turkish cities, we must also indicate Turkish names to Greek cities. For example, in Thessaloniki article, we must also indicate "Turkish: Selanik" in brackets right in the beginning sentece. Or else, we must delete "Greek Adrianòpolis, Αδριανουπολις" from Edirne article. Current situation is inconsistent. Filanca (talk) 09:56, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

• Dear Filanca,

Of course, the name of the city that exists today is 'Edirne', and this should be reflected in the article title as the most important and relevant name for the contemporary city: but it stands that this is a Turkish name; the English name is Adrianople. Just as the English name for Wien is Vienna or Αθήνα is Athens or Warszawa is Warsaw. However, it is increasingly the case that modern English adopts/adapts to local usages (but remains very inconsistent in doing so e.g. Bombay to Mumbai but Kolkata remains Calcutta). For this reason, I think that the Article should remain as Edirne, I just respectfully disagree with your reasoning.

Furthermore, vis-à-vis your 'objection', I see your argument for reciprocity between Turkish and Greek equivalents of city names in English articles as more politically rather than academically persuasive. But is Wikipedia a place for such politicking, bearing in mind its NPOV ethos? It is important to note, emotions aside, that Edirne was a Greek city for a very long time, and its Romano-Greek origins are very notable in England, simply for the fact that Hadrian ruled over much of present-day Britain, and is a well known historical figure here (and built many structures that still exist here today e.g. Hadrian's wall). This is why Roman and Greek city names can be very important bits of information and should feature prominently where appropriate, in my opinion. Of course, I do not wish to diminish the importance of Turkish history, but I think the Greek names of Turkish cities that were established by Greeks and inhabited by Greeks for millenia could be more relevant to English wikipedia readers in identifying certain prominent places than citing the Turkish names for all of the non-Turkish cities that were once Ottoman territories such as Greece. IMHO, the Turkish names of cities outside of Turkey are very interesting and ought to feature in the History/Etymology of those cities' articles where relevant, but I doubt they would often be useful in identifying them to English speakers in most cases (except perhaps for Selânik as Ataturk's birthplace), and so wouldn't need to be at the beginning of those articles. That said, it might be more helpful to take every city/article into consideration on its own merits.

Regards, Pob1984 (talk) 15:34, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Had the English name of the city been Adrianople, it would be the title of the arcile. Comparisons with Warsaw and Vien support this: English names are used in Wikipedia including when they differ from the local names. Anyway, this is irrelevant in this context. What I objected to was indicating a Greek name in the opening sentence, not an English name.

Unfortunately I can not see any foundation to your accusation of an NPOV violation. In fact, since I never mentioned any political motive, your vocalisation of my supposed political intentions might fall into a violation of WP:AGF. All I asked was keeping a standard for place names. Since Greece and Turkey are located in the same region and their cities share a common history, it is only normal to expect a similar form and draw attention to unjustified differences. If there is a consistent and unjustified difference between the two countries, this would be the real NPOV violation. I call for a really neutral stance in this respect.

I do not underestimate Greek or Roman history. However, modern Greek or Bulgarian names of Edirne are equally relevant to modern Turkish name of Thessaloniki. Your argument about Greek speakers living since a longer time in Turkish cities is not relevant to what this issue. Anyway, for cities in Greece which were initially founded by Turks, like Alexandroupoli, the situation is exactly the same, ie, no Turkish name is given in the opening sentence.

To sum up, we must use the same standard for all languges in terms of placenames.

Regards, Filanca (talk) 18:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Islam in Comoros

Hello Pob.

Well, you're right. There are sects that identify themselves as Muslims and DO have the concept of saints. However, "mainstream" Islam (namely, Sunni Islam, over 90% of Muslims) don't. I thought it was misleading to say that "Muslims have saints". In fact, the concept of saints is very much against Islam. I think it's inaccurate to include that statement without clarification.

Fuzzbuzz (talk) 22:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Grammar

sorry, I copied it from Encyclopædia Britannica, you can go and check it from the link of thier website. I didn't notice. again, it's my mistake (^_^). Ahmad2099 (talk) 00:30, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello

In regards to edit of Shia Islam I just thought I'd inform you that you do not have to worry about vouching for the veracity of the content each time when making minor grammar corrections :) Peter Deer (talk) 02:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

M.A article

Hi Pob,

At first I would like to thank you for your kind words. Now, as for M.A. -I think that to claim that he was born Jewish violating the most basic rules of strict and unbiased validation process. Even if his name is of Jewish origin and even if he did have this surname before (there are heavy doubts on both) then it tells nothing about his father ethnical identity-in this case his father might born Jewish (even I think that the chances to get to Mars with a Bus are greater) or his grand grandfather might been born Jewish (doubt it either). It can tell nothing about his mother, but she most probably of non Jewish heritage as well. Moreover, Jewish converts in Iran were not treated equal to people who were born Mulims, not even after few generations passed. Besides the poor "evidence" the daily telegraph provided, there is no reason to believe that if M.A had Jewish background he would become to be the Iranian president. I don't read the daily telegraph (unless on international flights) so I can't realy judge its quality. I won't judge it based on one publication, because if I would then I can only support the idea that this is a tabloid. Something I mighet did impetuousnessly, the same way that the daily telegraph refer to Anti Semitic hollocaust denier and infamous tyrant as no less than Jew.--Gilisa (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you read ADM reply on my talk page.--Gilisa (talk) 11:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Seems like the right thing to do! Cheers--Gilisa (talk) 11:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Europe 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)