User talk:Postoak/archive 3

Houston

Please use strike-outs as you go through the list, thanks. Actually, pretty good overall city article in spite of many criticisms. Most aren't worth reading, because of they demand to keep their "written for insiders" biases. I see plenty of effort trying to put Houston in a global context. KP Botany 21:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't plan on reviewing your list. In fact, I'm leaving Wikipedia. Signing out, Postoak 22:08, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you were the one posting the FAC, because of your comments. Best wishes on your future journey, whatsoever it is. KP Botany 22:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Today I got quite frustrated and somewhat angry over your comments. I guess I took it personally which I shouldn't. I've helped to improve this article for over a year now. I thought it was much better than what was said over on the FAC page. Anyway, if the article is not ready for featured status, then so be it. We will try to improve it and renominate it again some other time. I'm not sure if all of your objections can be met in the time left in this nomination period. Postoak 03:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think time is an issue, I work full-time, and have limited time on Wikipedia--if you need more time to get it together to address these concerns, put up a note so Raul doesn't pull the article early. Whatever you do don't rush yourself to attain FA, and don't necessarily pull your FAC if you think you can pull it together with more time. I only comment on FA that I personally consider worthy of commenting upon because their editors have actually made an attempt at FA status, and sometimes I comment on really crappy articles. The latter I simply reject. I don't sit down for a couple of hours and read articles on only marginally interesting topics (city articles are a death knell for me) if they can't eventually become not just FA, but top notch FA. I'm sorry you got upset, but I posted extensive, in-depth comments, because I could see that someone had made tremendous effort to make this an excellent article, and had the potential to make it one of Wikipedia's very best--in other words, I did look over the work done on this article. Please look over my comments individually as you have the time, and, most important, weigh the value of each comment within the context of the article overall, and see if, after some work, the article is better. KP Botany 18:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your help here. I work full time also. I'm in the middle of a system upgrade, so it is difficult for me to work on the article. I wish you were around when the article went to peer review! Thanks, Postoak 03:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

KP Botany's list

• Object This article needs quite a bit of copyedit work done to be FA.

::Isn't Rice University, an extremely prestigious research institute with the academic reputation of being the most grueling undergraduate university in the US located in Houston? It's also a major part of the reason for Houson being able to capture biotech and being a leading medical reserach city. This deserves a space in the lead. ~~

Who are the "Globalization and World Cities Study Group & Network?" I hate reading an article in a general encyclopedia that mentions some supposedly prestigious institution that I've never heard of.

Other city articles have included this. world-class city is wikified. Postoak 03:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

""where its Mission Control Center is located" We all know whose it is, but again, let's be clear, as it is also a generic term. Also, is it still active, is it used for shuttle flights, can we assume we're not talking to only those in the know?

:I think this article really overdoes the -- and ; for my taste. Simple sentences are not an enemy of good prose. :When did Houston gain the nickname "Space City?"

:The paragraph that begins "Lawlessness, epidemics, and financial problems ..." Is all over the place. It looks like 20 people mad-libbed a sentence each then pasted it together. What epidemics? What lawlessness? You start with "lawlessness" then go onto settlers from the South and the plantation system. Were they lawless? "Slaves lived scattered," sounds like people dispersed their slaves throughout Houston to hide them or something. What are you trying to say? Slaves were kept, "lived" sounds like they chose or were just dispersed. Throughout what "neighborhoods?" Were their established neighborhoods in early Houston, mention something about them. What does slavery have to do with lawlessness, epidemics, and financial problems? It could have something to do with the latter if you stated that Texas and Houston endorsed the economics of the slavery-plantation system. "Texas interior," not "Texas inland." Place Galveston in its geographical relationship to Houston, also as you've called Houston a port city, but mention rail lines went to other ports, spell it out: Houston was not a port city at this time, so shipping was out of nearby Galveston and Beaumont Texas or whatever the specific case was.

This paragraph was trashed. Postoak 01:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

:"Spindletop" is an oil field, a very famous one. If your mom was an exploration petroleum geologist it leaps out at you, but not for most people. Either just oil in a salt dome oil field near Beaumont, or Spindletop, an oil field near Beaumont or something. Not just for Americans, but not just for the oil patch, either. Also, whose oil industry, seems like you're talking about the Houston or Texas oil industry, but wasn't it a rather bigger oil industry that began when Spindletop gushed in?

:Don't like the wording on the Galveston sentence about the hurricane.

Was air travel common in the 1930s?

:"World War II started, tonnage levels fell," tonnage levels of what where? Tonnage levels through the port? Was five shipping lines significant? Were there 11 total or 129?

:Houston's base ecosystem is more diverse than just prairie, aren't there wetlands? Did the city spread and build only on prairie? Is it shortgrass prairie in Houston (own curiosity)?

:Did they only train bombardiers there, not pilots or any other part of the crew? I suppose bombardiers could be trained separately, just like pilots are, but I don't know?

:Did aircraft and shipbuilding become large industries statewide, or was shipbuilding confined to the Gulf Coast of Texas? :The "Eighth Wonder of the World" nickname comment is kinda taken out of relevancy by the sentence saying it was no big deal. If it ain't a big deal, delete it.

:So folks moved to Houston due to the Arab Oil Embargo? (Oh, you say "ad" here where you mean to say "and.") Why? Because of jobs in the oil industry? Then spell it out, this neatly ties it in with the collapse.

:Say when the "Space Shuttle Challenger exploded shortly after launch," or something. It's colloquial as is.

:Don't like the wording on the sentences about the recession, clean it up, make it flow.:Houston is reducing its dependence on petroleum or the petroleum industry? Since you're talking about the aerospace industry and biotech, I assume you mean petroleum industry.

Mention why so many folks were evacuated to Houston from New Orleans--not until I did the drive did I realize those two cities were anywhere near each other. It still surprises me, but don't assume the audience knows that.

I don't think it had anything to do with proximity. Local and state officials mad the decision to host the evacuees. I really think the statement is OK as is.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_2_houston.html Postoak 04:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

:"leaving little damage to the Houston area" is sufficient. Postoak

:How does flatness relate to flooding? My friends live on a flat plateau in the Rockies, so flat that the USGS does research their on its flatness, but there is no danger of flooding whatsoever. Add extensive wetlands and a spring melt, maybe they would get flooded. You need a relationship between the flatness, the elevation, and Houston's wetlands.

What's "the Heights?" "runs through the Heights, a neighborhood in northern Houston," or whereever it is. You do this better in the rest of the paragraph. Postoak 03:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:It isn't layers series of sands and clays "deposited on decaying organic matter," but rather organic matter trapped in deltaic depositions of some nature. Don't use "tier" as a synonym for depositional layers, as it isn't. Be careful in general about supplying your own synonyms for scientific terms. Maybe this is a petroleum term I don't know, but I do know it's a soil science term used in Canada, so unless you're certain, don't use it. This paragraph needs some work. :Also, you have Cityscape in the middle of Geography/Geology/Cityscape/Climate, and it should be Geography/Climate/Geology/Cityscape, but the latter last.

Removed tied, replaced with layers. salt formations now salt domes/wikified

:So, Houston's grown in a different manner from what? From other US cities, other major US cities most of which have organized growth under zoning laws? "Five additional business districts in addition to the downtown business district," for a total of six? :Are the deserts of Mexico really south and southeast of Houston?

fixed Postoak 01:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this format for Wiki dates, 2000 September 4? Shouldn't it be on September 4, 2000 in prose? Postoak 01:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:Christmas Eve snow is not really relevant. Postoak 01:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:"strong mayoral form of municipal

:Don't use nicknames, it should be "William White" or "William Middlename White."

He is known as Bill White - How about William "Bill" White? Postoak 00:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Probably appropriate in this case, as is usuall done with Jimmy Carter. Anyone else have any say-so? KP Botany 02:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

"The current city council line-up was based on a U.S. Justice Department nadate which took effect in 1979?" REally? But you just said they only have two year terms. Oh, wait no term limits. Or do you meaqn the method of at large and district council members, not their line-up? A line-up is people, not their seats.

How does Houston having home rule tie in with municipal elections in the state of Texas being nonpartisan? This latter point makes it sound like Houston doesn't have home rule, or has it only in other areas than form of municipal elections, which doesn't sound like home rule to me.

Paragraph reorganized Postoak 03:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

:Paragraph beginning "Houston's energy industry" is all over the place. Oh, those "--" just make for poor prose. Can you say it without them? Is Houston known for any type of energy besides petroleum? Don't say "first in the country," unless you've just mentioned US, this is an international encyclopedia.:What is GAP's relationship to GDP? It's not obvious.

Revised, please see article Postoak 03:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC) :

Houston's ranking as metro area, in the world, or in the USA? Forbes? You mean Forbes magazine or what?

clarified Postoak 03:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:Is it 5.31% Asian or Asian American? Since Houston has a large Vietnamese immigration population, it's not clear.

:The paragraph on Hispanics and illegals is just all over the place, please be very clear that there is a large illegal Hispanic population and a large resident Hispanic population and just whom you are speaking about when. How is the Mexican population sorted, Hispanics and non? I don't really understand what is being said here.:: reorganized for clarity Postoak 03:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

:Instead of "The following year" say "In 2006" and "like other large cities," "like other large American cities," or are you talking world cities? No need to name the largest gang, unless it started in Houston, or is found only in Houston, then need contextual statement.

:Add reference to first word spoken on moon.

At "Reliant Park, in whateverpartofHouston." Put the Houston Pride Parade in context, is it the biggest parade, how long Houston has had it. If it's not the biggest, or longest running, substitute the biggest or longest running parade.

:Is the city "host to local folk art?" Usually you don't host the locals but the out-of-towners. The city is "home to a folk artists" or something.

ok Postoak 01:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:Exhibitions, like "auto, boat, home, and gun shows" are NOT art!:

I agree..removed Postoak 00:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Any country music or classical in Houston, or just hip-hop, any tejano even?

:Include year in Super Bowl XXXVIII, plus also NFL's Super Bowl. Is the Shell Houston Open golf or what?

fixed Postoak 00:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:Which San Jose? fixed Postoak 00:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:What plays at Hofheinz Pavilioni, etc., are these the homes of teams, or just general use municipal stadiums? Ah, Rice, world famous Rice gets mentioned finally.

Fixed Postoak 00:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:Does this free alternative weekly really have a daily circulation count or a weekly? It's a fairly wealthy weekly if it can count daily.

Fixed Postoak 00:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:You've dropped a sentence, or maybe I did: "Several radio and television... are in" and then nothing.

Fixed Postoak 00:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

KP Botany 20:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your valuable input. Postoak 21:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Houston: Intro->Arts

You mentioned that the reference for the fact "ranked second in the country for the number of theater seats in a concentrated downtown area per capita" is cited in the "arts & theatre" section, but that section has many references, and that fact is not mentioned in the section at all. It would be very helpful if you could match whichever source it is with the fact at the top. Thanks for taking the time to maintain the Houston article -- keep up the good work. -- RedPoptarts 10:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

In Arts and Theatre: The Theater District is located downtown and is home to nine major performing arts organizations and six performance halls. It is the second largest concentration of theater seats in a downtown area in the United States - followed by three references. Since the lead summary paragraph will contain facts that will be repeated in the body of the article, we decided a while back to place all references in the body of the article next to the repeated statements. Thanks, and welcome to the Houston wikiproject, Postoak 01:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Houston -- nice job!

I realize this was a lot of work when you had already done quite a bit of work on the article, and that the article was significantly better than other FAs you may have seen, but it really had the potential to be the excellent FA which it is now. And, looking at the article now, don't you think it was worth the effort it took? Three points that need cleared up, but I'll support now, and you can deal with them as you see fit. Also, nice job in general with how you dealt with my comments, but maintained stylistic integrity throughout the article. It's also clear from the details themselves, why you included some information and not others. Well written, easy to read, informative, fairly neutral, useful to someone planning a visit or move to Houston.

Absolutely, it was worth the effort. I'm quite proud of it now. I will follow up with the items below very soon. Thank you for helping us bring this article closer to FA. Postoak 23:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Industrialization of the port increased because of the demand for petroleum and synthetic rubber products during the war.

I don't understand this? Do you mean the numbers of industries in the port area expanded? Or infrastructure at the port was built up?

• City council members, who also have a three-term limit, are elected from nine districts in the city, along with five at-large positions. At-large council members represent the entire city.[46] The current city council line-up was based on a U.S. Justice Department mandate which took effect in 1979.[48]

What I think you mean to say, is " This current city council line-up of 9 district based and five at large positions was based on a U.S. Justice Department mandate which took effect in 1979

• UH is the only doctoral degree granting comprehensive research institution in East Texas with more than 40 research centers and institutes.

No, Rice is one also.

I would also like to congratulate you for doing excellent work on this article. I've always thought city articles were some of the hardest to get to featured status because there's so many different areas to cover, but this article shows off how it should be done (and shows up the other city FAs in the process). Well done! Trebor 00:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Trebor, Thank you for the kind words and the encouragement early on. I sincerely appreciate it! Postoak 00:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

• Congratulations on getting Houston to FA status! Deatonjr 02:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

• Way to go! Thanks, Postoak, for all of the hard work you put in to Houston, Texas. Good job. --Evb-wiki 02:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

This is incredible!! I just got home and found out. Everyone has worked so hard for this. Thank you! Postoak 05:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The following is a similar message posted on Talk:Houston, Texas:

I am excited to see that Houston is now a featured article, which I did not think would ever happen! I am kind of glad I took a two-month wikibreak while this was going through FAC because I probably wouldn't have been able to handle all the criticisms I saw posted. I have wanted this to be a featured article ever since I started editing Wikipedia back in April 2005. Great job Postoak! I am glad other people became interested and started contributing to this article. In the past, there weren't that many people editing regularly and wanting this article to reach FA. In the end, I do apologize for not being here while this was going through the FAC process to help out and that you had to do it all by yourself. —RJN 10:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks and welcome back, RJN! Postoak 00:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Lakewood Church

It looks like you are having a blast at the Lakewood Church article. —RJN 23:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Just trying to help make a better article! lol Postoak 23:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

don't judge the things you don't know, NASA was lost the footage recently

prove me wrong... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.91.31 (talk) 09:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

I did not judge anyone. I removed your vandalism to the article. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the article is incorrect. Until then, please do not vandalize the page. Thanks, Postoak 16:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

are you worth the time?

and for your information, i'm a perfectly stable person, more stable than 90% of you americans, i have been to a lot psycologiests and phyciatrics, and all have confirmed that i'm evieable stable state, so you really can say to a person to find that kind of help, one would prefer that help to you before anything... and mr. kubrick died under misterious sercumstances, and while filming 2001 we was see frequantly leaving and entering the nasa bulding, and the flag in shot was carried by wind, which is psycicly impossible, caus the moon hasn't got a atmosphere and many other conditions, and kubrick is famous for putting mistakes in his films, he was a perfectionist, and like michelangello and the moses statue, to him perfection must be spoiled, reason to me... unknown, a genious thing probably—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.91.31 (talk) 09:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

A psychologist would be interested in hearing this, not me. That is why I recommended that you see one. Good luck to you in your future. Friendly reminder: Please do not vandalize articles or you will be blocked from editing. Thank you, Postoak 17:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Seriously

Is there a reason why you keep deleting the nicknames added to the "Houston, Texas" article? They may not exist in your world; however, they are very widespread across the nation. Besides, "Space City" is no official nickname. The city does not belong to you, so why don't you just allow other Houstonians to contribute to this article. Be fair. Be mature. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mphifer254 (talk • contribs) 08:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

The official nickname is "Space City". Postoak 08:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

You're going to have to prove that. Regardless, how many people do you actually hear say "Space City"? The other nicknames are much more popular. But if you insist on deleting them, I'll continue to add them while maintaining the decency of not deleting any of your work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mphifer254 (talk • contribs) 08:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

The unofficial nicknames you mention are in the body of the article. The infobox should only have one name, the official nickname. Postoak 08:53, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe so, but come on. All of the other major cities have lists of nicknames within the infobox, and some cities and towns don't have official nicknames. It makes much more sense to have the nicknames the city is best known for. Plus, nothing in the article is really official. I see like three different numbers regarding the population throughout the whole thing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mphifer254 (talk • contribs) 08:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

SHARING IS CARING, POSTOAK.

Apparently other editors have shared their opinion. Postoak 21:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Mmm...too bad I could care less.--Mphifer254 21:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think you did. Go to Talk:Houston, Texas to discuss further. Postoak 21:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but no thanks. No discussion is necessary for such a minor edit. To be honest, I didn't think anyone would notice, let alone care.--Mphifer254 21:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine. If you don't wish to discuss this at Talk:Houston, Texas then it will be changed back to the most accepted version. Cheers! Postoak 21:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

You're a good liar.--68.201.118.165 02:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see WP:NPA. Also, see User talk:Mphifer254 where the multiple accounts are documented. Thank you, Postoak 02:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, okay. So what you're saying is that you didn't defend Evb's blocking at my expense? That's funny because I think you did by saying that I refused to discuss it EVER when, as you see on the Houston talk page, we reached consensus with me deciding in your favor. Before you try to make me out to be the bad guy, remember that in my editing I never once deleted what you added. Both you and Evb REVERTED multiple times, and how can you defend her alone when she was just as wrong as both you and I: Reverting the article more than 3x without discussing it.--68.201.118.165 04:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)