QwertyUSA

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Flat signs

I recently changed some symbols to "flat" in the clarinet article on the basis of wanting to be more understandable. Apparently, there's a group who feel strongly against this, despite obvious problems with so many users seeing blank spaces. Just as the "real" flat sign is unsupported in some browsers, surely it is also difficult to comprehend for people outside or tangentially outside the music world, who have no idea what that "b" thing is. I'm in the music world myself, but think it would be far better to use English (spelling out "flat") rather than using a specialty symbol. If, that is, we want the most people to read and understand and comprehend, rather than merely being "correct" in our own small field. Yes? No? Other thoughts? (Wasn't sure where to put this, so I put it here.) QwertyUSA 11:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I see your point. There's certainly not a right or wrong way to do this, and although I personally prefer to see "real" flats & sharps, other styles are accepted as well. I don't really know about the browser incompatability issues - I reverted on the general principle of retaining an article's existing style of notation/grammar/units of measurement/spelling (British vs. American english, Oxford commas or not, etc.). Keeps edit wars down, etc. I think this is in the guidelines or manual of style. This case is different, since there are apparently readability issues. Here's a post to my talk page from a couple of months ago about the issue - User:Dbolton is obviously much more knowledgeable about this issue and would probably be able to give you better guidance. - Special-T 13:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I noticed the new round of flat sign changes on the trumpet article too. Apparently this isn't a problem for any of the main competitors to Internet Explorer, i.e. Mozilla/Firefox, Safari, or Opera. I was hoping this problem would fade away with time, since Microsoft is releasing a new version of IE in the next few months. Unfortunately, this bug has not been addressed in the current preview release (beta 3) of IE 7. The missing flat sign in IE is part of a wider issue: lack of support for mixed Unicode blocks (See Unicode and HTML#Web browser support). --User:Dbolton 18:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

This really shouldn't be a case of browser capabilities, or compatibilites at all. The articles will be more widely useful if written in English (spelling out "flat" or "sharp") rather than relying on special symbols from within the msuic field. While some people may have trouble seeing that these musical symbols are outside the norm, what if the scientists among us wanted every reference to "water" on Wikipedia to be written as "H₂O"? While that example might be easy, more complex chemical formulas would just gum up readability entirely. The analogous usage is in printed programs for concerts and recitals (not at educational institutions, but for the general public), where, far more often than not, "flat" and "sharp" are spelled out to ensure that audiences can read it. This is not because the sharp or flat signs are unavailable for printing, but in order to ensure the widest understanding and readability. While some might try to argue a difference between keys in which a work is written and the key in which an instrument is voiced ("okay" for pieces to be "in B-flat major" but an instrument should be "keyed" with the symbol), that would still be problematic for the general reader (who, I think, we should be aiming ourselves at/for). QwertyUSA 16:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I have been trying to address the "problem with so many users seeing blank spaces" instead of Unicode flats and sharps at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (music) lately. We have a proposed solution that will show the correct symbol instead of black spaces in Internet Explorer. Please visit Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (music)#Unicode template for sharps and flats if you have an interest in this or care to comment.--Dbolton 00:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

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Thank you for adding your name to our project membership list! Our goal is to make Wikipedia the foremost compendium of musical theatre to be found on the internet: hope you're up to the challenge! As a project member, you might like to add the project membership userbox to your user page.

If you haven't done so already, please add our main project page to your watchlist and perhaps browse our page of useful templates. When you have a moment, please take some time to review the article structure for musicals, which, after months of collaboration, consensus was decided as the best structure for articles on musicals. If you're curious about where to start, we've gathered a few suggestions in the Project to do list and in our tasklist.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask on the project talk page or on my talk page. Again, welcome and happy editing!

—  MusicMaker5376 17:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

WPMT Roll Call and COTM

WPMT Roll Call and Collaboration of the Month!

You're receiving this message because you are currently listed as a member of WikiProject Musical Theatre. Please post at the talk page to let us know if you're still with the project. Feel free to post on the talk page about what musical theatre-related work you're doing or to weigh in on the current discussions on the talk page.

Nominations for our Collaboration of the Month are currently being accepted. What should we focus on for the month of November? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much, folks! Happy editing! —  MusicMaker5376 04:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Caesar Twins

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Caesar Twins, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

WP:N?

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. CaveatLector ^{Talk Contrib} 04:19, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Caesar Twins

I have nominated Caesar Twins, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caesar Twins. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. CaveatLector ^{Talk Contrib} 01:17, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

An article you created maybe deleted soon: Tools which can help you

The article you created: Caesar Twins may be deleted from Wikipedia.

There is an ongoing debate about whether your article should be deleted here:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caesar Twins .

The faster you respond on this page, the better chance the article you created can be saved.

Finding sources which mention the topic of your article is the very best way to avoid an article being deleted {{Findsources3}}:

Find sources for Caesar Twins : google news recent, google news old, google books, google scholar, NYT recent, NYT old, a9, msbooks, msacademic ...You can then cite these results in the Article for deletion discussion.

Also, there are several tools and helpful editors on Wikipedia who can help you:

1. List the page up for deletion on Article Rescue Squadron. You can get help listing your page on the Article Rescue Squadron talk page.
2. You can request a mentor to help explain all of the complex rules that editors use to get a page deleted: Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User. But don't wait for a mentor to respond to you before responding on the article for deletion page.
3. When trying to delete a page, veteran editors love to use a lot of rule acronyms. Don't let these acronyms intimidate you.
   Here is a list acronyms you can use yourself: WP:Deletion debate acronyms which may support the page you created being kept.
4. You can vote to merge the article into a larger or better established article on the same topic.

If your page is deleted, you still have many options available. Good luck! travb (talk) 03:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

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