RDescartes61

Test RDescartes61 (talk) 02:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

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Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia! You asked,

I am working with the original NR nomination files for properties in Massachusetts and found that many UTM coordinates (in the NAD27 datum) have been incorrectly transferred to NAD83. As a result, many Wikipedia NR notations in Google Earth are substantially off. I am new to Wikipedia editing. How can I contribute? Who should I contact? RDescartes61 (talk) 02:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Raising the subject on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates seems like a relevant place, and if NR refers to National Register of Historic Places, on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places.
—WWoods (talk) 08:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I happen to be aware that, yes, the NRHP coordinates in List of RHPs in MA and other places are off. It's because, besides where someone has corrected them, the NRHP coords are from the National Register Information System, which is a historical accumulation of data from NRHP application forms which often provided coordinates from old U.S. geo service quadrant maps (now somewhat outdated/incorrect). There's supposed to be a general footnote disclaimer about that in list-articles but it is not always there. It's my understanding they'll only be off less than 100 yards though. doncram (talk) 21:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

What i know about coordinate changes is largely from this webpage on North American Datum Conversion. In many of the NRHP nomination documents, there are copies of old quadrant maps with the NRHPs' locations marked upon them. doncram (talk) 07:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm new to this means of communicating ... and I am not sure that I expressing this in the right form. However, I am reviewing all of the recent (2000-2008) MA nominations (expected to go on the web in the next couple of months). In the process I have developed a database of corrected lat/long (decimal degrees), based on Google Earth and photos and assessors maps in the nomination files. I would like to share this, if there is a way of doing it. Alternatively, to find a way to EASILY check and correct existing coordinates on the Mass Wiki Lists. Would this be useful for anyone? RDescartes61 (talk) 01:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this way of communicating is awkward. You have a choice of responding in your own Talk page, where the conversation started, keeping the discussion together, or of responding in the other person's Talk page, in which case they will notice it and be able to respond more promptly back. Another strategy is to post in a larger forum area, such as at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places, where there will be more participants watching and a discussion can develop quickly. doncram (talk) 07:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if you'd like to discuss this by email or phone, please feel free to send an email to me. Visit my userpage at User:Doncram and use the email-to-me box to contact me. I don't want to post my email address or other contact info here (it would be permanently public). doncram (talk) 08:16, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

welcome and about MA NRHPs

Hi, i just happened to notice your posting at WWoods' talk page. It happens that i am interested and have worked some on Massachusetts NRHP articles, and looking for MA participants. Unlike for other states, there were stubs created for almost all the MA sites, all of which should be covered in List of RHPs in MA, but I am afraid that there has been too little involvement since, and any new local activity might not get noticed by anyone else. It would be great to have you on board to do whatever you like with developing them: adding pictures, editing, whatever. Please let me know if you have any questions or if you'd like any feedback or anything. Also, you would be very welcome to join wp:NRHP as a member, and/or to post any questions at the wt:NRHP talk page. doncram (talk) 21:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Can you point me to a tutorial on joining groups? The code on the list page seems daunting! As an experiment, I tried correcting the coordinates for the James Robbins House, Acton (Middlesex County). Is there a recommended protocol for this? I assumed this was a "minor edit" and marked the change accordingly? Any suggestions? and to Burlington's Center School, which was 2.7 miles too far west. RDescartes61 (talk) 04:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

A quick check (examining the Wiki symbols in Google Earth) suggests that most points, unless hand-located, are 150-300 feet too far SW, and in some cases more, if there was an error in the original calculation. RDescartes61 (talk) 03:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll look at James Robbins House next. Or do you mean John Robbins House?

No tutorial needed on joining a group, it is actually just whether you choose to edit your name into the list of members at wp:NRHP. It doesn't actually give you any different privileges or obligations, at least not any formal ones. All it does i guess is show your interest to others. You "sign up" at the wikiproject page and you can further choose, or not, to include userboxes showing which wikiprojects you belong to, on your own User page (User:RDescartes61). You don't need to bother with doing either.

The 150-300 feet change sounds possible, probably consistent with what you could look up in that North American Data Conversion website as being the distance of change in Maine locations. doncram (talk) 07:47, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I see your edit to the John Robbins House, in the article's history. It seems fine, would be fine for an editor making just one or a few changes. Your case is unusual, though, in that you are able to provide, as you say above, "a database of corrected lat/long (decimal degrees), based on Google Earth and photos and assessors maps in the nomination files". It would be great if you would share this, indeed, and it would indeed be useful and appreciated. It's not immediately clear how to transfer it, and/or to engage several persons in using the data to update the Massachusetts NRHP list-articles and individual articles, but i am sure it could be done and will be appreciated. We've handled a lot of data already.... One question: do you have an official capacity in which to post or release the data, so that wikipedia articles could cite the official release as a source. We try to be meticulous about noting the sources of data (and the NRHP infoboxes with their coordinates all credit the National Register Information System for their coordinates and other info). For systematic change of coordinates data for about 4,000 articles, it would be appropriate to form a footnote crediting your database or perhaps the State of Massachusetts or whomever is your client or employer, as the source. Several things are open here. I could also open a discussion thread at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places if/when that's okay with you, seeking comments and volunteers to use the data. doncram (talk) 08:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC)