User talk:Retired Pchem Prof/Archive 1

January 2016

After having read this new editor's post at the Teahouse, I'm replacing most of the welcome message with one that I think is better suited for this editor. w.carter-Talk 23:35, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Welcome Retired Pchem Prof!

Now that you've joined Wikipedia, there are 48,335,977 registered editors!

Hello, Retired Pchem Prof. Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions! I'm W.carter, one of the other editors here, and I hope you decide to stay and help contribute to this amazing repository of knowledge.

Some pages of helpful information to get you started:   Introduction to Wikipedia   The five pillars of Wikipedia   Editing tutorial   How to edit a page   Simplified Manual of Style   The basics of Wikicode   How to develop an article   How to create an article   Help pages   What Wikipedia is not

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or even:   Ask an experienced editor to "adopt" you

Alternatively, leave me a message at my talk page or type {{helpme}} here on your talk page, and someone will try to help.

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The best way to learn about something is to experience it. Explore, learn, contribute, and don't forget to have some fun!
To get some practice editing you can use a sandbox. You can create your own private sandbox for use any time. Perfect for working on bigger projects. Then for easy access in the future, you can put {{My sandbox}} on your userpage.

Sincerely, w.carter-Talk 23:35, 16 January 2016 (UTC)   (Leave me a message)

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Dolphin (t) 01:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Joule–Thomson effect has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

• ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again.
• For help, take a look at the introduction.
• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Joule–Thomson effect was changed by Retired Pchem Prof (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.954191 on 2016-01-12T17:12:38+00:00 .

Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 17:12, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Help me

{helpme}

Which of the above is correct? How do I make the "you have unread messages" prompt disappear after I read the messages? Is there some way I can find out what a "user talk" page is, and how to use it? The "cluebot" message is baffling. How do I figure out what it changed?

Hey there! To answer your questions:
1. The lower is correct, templates have two brackets around them. {{cn}} for example.
2. The Unread messages notification will go away when you click on the notification dropdown.
3. A User talk page is what you and I are editing now. Every user has a "talk" page where other editors can leave comments for them. The page we are on now is your talk page. My talk page is at User_talk:Allthefoxes. To use one, simply edit the page with your comments (like you did just now!). I have also moved this content to the bottom of the page, when you edit a talk page, put the comments at the bottom! Lastly, whenever you make a comment on a talk page, leave your signature by typing ~~~~ at the end! --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 17:50, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

As for cluebot, it simply reverted the page to what it was before you edited the first time. The bot thought you were vandalizing the page. Comments like what you left should likely be left on the talk page of the article, rather than hidden in the article. However, you seem to have rewritten the section altogether, so that is fixed. :) --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 17:54, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

{helpme}

First, thanks to Allthefoxes, but this might not be the correct way to reply.

Should I delete thingfs from this page when I am done with them? It would help in distinguishing what is new. It looks like the answer is to archive Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Cut_and_paste_procedure

Is there a way to insert critical comments in an article as notes for future revisions, either by myself or someone else who sees how to fix the problem? I tried that, and it seems that cluebot stripped them out. And they may have been hidden, which would defeat the purpose.

Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 20:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Prof. Your Talk page is the perfect place to reply to the message from Allthefoxes. Standard practice on Wikipedia is that if someone writes you a message on your Talk page, you continue the discussion on your Talk page, immediately below their message; similarly, if you leave a message for someone on their Talk page you need to watch that page regularly because they are most likely to reply on their own Talk page, immediately below your message.

It is possible to delete things from your Talk page when the conversation has finished, but most people don't do so. My Talk page currently goes back about 3 years and contains 27 different threads. I see my archived pages contain about 50 threads each.

It is possible to insert comments in an article so they are visible when editing the article, but not visible to readers of the article. See Help:Hidden text. Dolphin (t) 02:55, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Dolphin51.

{helpme}

It seems strange to me to have the type of messages that I have placed under "other messages" on the same page as messages pertaining to articles I am editing. When I look at the pages for Allthefoxes and Dolphin51, I do not see the former. And what I see on this page does not seem to depend on whether I am logged in. So I think I am missing something, but I don't know what.

Your Talk page is primarily for other Users to communicate with you. Information you initiate yourself is customarily placed on your User page. Your User page has not yet been started which is why it appears in red. See the top left of this page where you will see the User page tab immediately to the left of the Talk page tab. Open your User page simply by clicking on the red tab. Dolphin (t) 20:26, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again Dolphin51. I missed the distinction. Having browsed some other user and talk pages, I think I've got the idea. Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 22:20, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm sure you will also find it a useful learning exercise to go to one (or more) of the articles you have edited, and select the tab called View history. You will see this tab at the top of the page, immediately to the left of the Search box. View history shows us all the edits that have been made to take the article to its current status, and the User name of all the Users who have contributed. From that page you can access the User page and User Talk page of each contributing User, and a list of contributions made by each User.

Thank you for offering to work on articles in the field of physical chemistry. You will find a body of like-minded people, and relevant projects, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Chemistry. (This page is also accessible through a short-cut: WP:CHEMISTRY.)

When you edit a Talk page, or any page that is not an encyclopaedia article, don't forget to sign your edit by inserting four tildes (~~~~). Dolphin (t) 06:31, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

{helpme}

I have been trying to figure out how to upload figures, working in my sandbox. I managed to do it, but I made a mistake in the description. I managed to edit the description by first turning off mediawhatever. But I can not figure out how to save the edit. When I try, it says I am not logged in. But I am logged in. And it won't let me log in. So do I have to start over? But can I start over? If it won't let me edit, surely it won't let me delete. So is there any way to change the description?

I am guessing that the actual file for the figure is separate from my sandbox, it is only linked to in the sandbox. Does that mean I can link to the same figure from the article, once I get it right? By just copying the appropriate source text?

I tried following the link to the description page in the Commons, but when I got there, it said I was logged out, even though I was logged in. So I could not edit it that way.

And that raises another question. If the graphics file is in the Commons, then are there naming conventions I should follow? If so, can I fix the name I used in the naive belief that what I did in the sandbox would stay in the sandbox? Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 01:54, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

I visited your sandbox and inserted the words TEST EDIT in the caption of your diagram. There was no difficulty and it happened exactly as I would expect so I can't explain why you now can't edit the caption.

Images are usually stored on the Commons, and then linked into articles as required. Perhaps your graphics file is stored in the Commons and you aren't logged into the Commons. (You need a separate User name and password on the Commons.)

Now that others are watching your Talk page, and responding to your enquiries, there is no necessity to insert {{helpme}} each time you ask a question. Dolphin (t) 06:12, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

"You need a separate User name and password on the Commons." Oh. Thanks. Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 14:53, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

About getting the hang of editing the Wikipedia

Hello again, it's me from the Teahouse. I noticed that you have some trouble getting to grips with how things work around here, don't worry, we all did at first. :) The best way to learn here is not to read every long-winded help page, but rather to get in contact with some more experienced editors who you can bug with every question or trouble that comes your way. It's like a very informal sort of mentorship and the best and fastest way to learn. The Wikipedia is all run by volunteers and so vast that you do need a guide during your first months here. The more you get around the community, the more you learn. I am one of the editor who help "newbies" out. You are always welcome to ask anything you like in an informal way on my talk page (click on this link to get there) where you will see that there are many more I'm helping. I will try my best to adjust my answers to your style of communicating. I am also leaving you a little tip below. All the best, w.carter-Talk 23:23, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Carter. Frankly, I am starting to think that the way Wikipedia works may be incompatible with the way my brain works. One person at the Teahouse wrote "If you provide more details, then perhaps we can provide a concise and tailored answer". My reaction to that is "what good will that do me"? My brain works by proceeding logically from basic facts and principles. I do not do well with a mass of disconnected details. So I guess I have to just keep plugging away in the hope that I start to see patterns. Now let's see if I can "ping" correctly. @W.carter: That took about two minutes, by the way. The problem is the seemingly random bits; in this case the vertical line. Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 16:24, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

It worked perfectly this time! :) Yes, the Wikipedia can be a bit overwhelming at first. I usually think of it as a large newspaper office where everyone is shouting things while fixing articles for next day's paper. The trick is to find a corner of it that is suited for you and surround yourself with other likeminded editors, then things will start to make sense. Some of the editors giving advice are so accustomed to the very precise way an encyclopedia works, that they may have trouble seeing the large overall picture. There are people here from all over the world and in all ages, so most editors want to be very specific to avoid any misunderstandings. They mean well though. And writing back and forth like this will give you practice in using the codes here and I hope that you will see the pattern soon enough. We are very glad that you have the patience to be "plugging away" in order to contribute to this collection of knowledge. Best, w.carter-Talk 16:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

How to communicate with other editors

When someone is posting on your talk page you get an automatic notification. That notification is a small blue sign followed by a long yellow box at the top of your page (for most browsers and settings). In all other cases you have to alert the other editor in some way, either by "ping" or by mentioning them in a link. This will result in just the red sign notification on top of that users page. So even if you respond on your talk page you still have to alert the editor you are addressing. If you want to get hold of me you write {{ping|W.carter}} resulting in @W.carter: or [[User:W.carter|W.carter]] resulting in W.carter and sign with the four "squiggles" ~~~~ at the end and hit "Save". There are some more, but these are the basics. And when you ask something on someone's talk page, you also create a new section so your question don't get entangled in some other conversation. If you are having a conversation with another user on some page, it is also customary to add that page to your Watchlist in case someone in the discussion forgets to alert.

The policy is to leave an answer on the same page as the question, keep the conversation intact unless there is some reason for moving it elsewhere. Like complicated questions at the Teahouse can be continued on the appropriate talk page. w.carter-Talk 23:23, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Carter. {ping|W.carter} Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 01:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I have left a brief message for you at User talk:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox. Dolphin (t) 01:07, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, Dolphin51, I wiped my sandbox clean before I saw your message here. {ping|Dolphin51} Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 01:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@Retired Pchem Prof: You almost got the communication bit right, but you only used single brackets around the 'ping' so it did not work. You have to use double brackets for it to get the code right: {{ping|W.carter}}. It is the same when you write the {{help}}. Using only single brackets, the automatic system will not respond to the code. But I was checkin your page and saw your message anyway. I also see that you have the eminent @Dolphin51: to help you, which is excellent. One of us will mostly be available to help. And don't worry about lost texts or wiping your sandbox (or anything else) clean. As long as you have hit the "Save page" button, it is archived and can always be retrieved if need be. Best, w.carter-Talk 09:21, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Please sign your posts

Hello again, things are coming along nicely I see. I must however remind you to please sign every post you make with the four tildes: ~~~~. The signing is a very important part of the coding system here. Without the signature, the 'ping' don't work. The ping and the signing has to be done during the same "save" in order for the message system to kick in. The signing is also vital on talk pages so that other editors easily can see how has made a comment. It also provides an automatic time stamp, this has be properly done for the programs (bots) that archive posts and comments on pages, since they operate according to the timer they are set to. w.carter-Talk 18:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

→ Small tip for you: Help:Displaying a formula, a documentation page about equations. w.carter-Talk 21:15, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Retired Pchem Prof/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Murph9000 (talk) 19:25, 19 January 2016 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Teahouse talkback: you've got another message!

Hello, Retired Pchem Prof/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by The Quixotic Potato (talk) 19:09, 21 January 2016 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Archiving

• (1): There are two ways of archiving things: manually or automatic with the help of at "bot" (program). My talk page is very much an ongoing help-station so I let a bot archive everything automatically after 30 days. Your talk pages are more like notice boards and it would therefore be unpractical to let a bot do that based solely on the date. You will have to create the archiving pages yourself, or if you want me to do the first ones to get you started I can do that. A small code called a "Template" will have to be placed on the page you archive to give you easy access to the archive, similar to the "Archive" I have here at the top of my page. After that it is simply a matter of cut and copy/paste the text you want to archive from the talk page to the archive page. Your archive pages would be called User talk:Retired Pchem Prof/Archive 1, User talk:Retired Pchem Prof/Archive 2, and so on.

It is a bit unusual to archive the sandbox, but you can always do that too using the same technique. Those archives would then be called User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox/Archive 1, User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox/Archive 2, etc. The entry to that archive should not be placed on the sandbox page since the code for it might be confused with the text in the sandbox, but one can be placed on the talk page of the sandbox if you like.

• (2): To recover things from your sandbox you have to "go behind the scenes", this is where we all can see what is going on, who is editing what and when etc. At the top of any page is a tab marked "View history". If you click on that you will see a list of all the "Saves" that has been made on that page. On the left side is a row of "(cur | prev)". If you click on the "prev" the page will open and show how the page looked at that "save". In the middle of the is a row of the editors who have made edits on that page. Every edit is marked with name, talk page, contribs, a timestamp, a chance to revert that edit (do not do that yet!) and if the edit is made by someone else, an option to thank that editor for the edit. Looking behind it all like this is how I have been able to follow your doings here.

• (3): You can certainly invite people to leave comments on the talk page of your sandbox! It is a very common practice. We help each other out like that all the time. You do not need to grant them access, anyone has access to any page here (with the exception of a few protected pages). The WP is completely transparent and open, which is why we value good manners and civility so highly. We stay away from each other's sandboxes and projects, not because we can't write there but out of respect for other editors. Break these rules of civility and you can get permanently banned from the site.

• (More): I think it might also be appropriate to add a few other notes here. Working on several projects, you can have as many sandboxes as you like, and name them in whatever manner you choose. Some editors use number, other colors or letter etc. Here are some examples: User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox 2, User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox Blue, User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox Epsilon.

To keep track of all the pages you are interested in or are working on, you add them to your "Watchlist". Your list is accessed via the link at the very top (right-hand side) of any page as long as you are logged in. You add a page to that list by clicking on the little star next to the "View history" at the top of a page. If the star is white and only outlinded, the page is not yet on your list, if it is blue, then the page is on your list. Click on a blue star if you want to remove the page from your list. If you create a page (like your user page), it is automatically added to the list.

You invite people to whatever page you are working on, by 'pinging' them, leaving a message on their talk pages or posting a note at some Project talk page.

A lot of information to digest, please let me know when you are ready for the next step. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:23, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

@Retired Pchem Prof: On second thought, having had a look at the archive boxes available and how your sandbox is maintained, I think it will be possible to add an archive box to your sandbox or any page you want it on. w.carter-Talk 19:53, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

→ Formatting. I only formatted the text above to make it easier to read. If you start a new line with a space, or several, you get the "machine text" and a box around each section. I don't think that was intended here since you had just copied the text from the page. w.carter-Talk 07:25, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

@Retired Pchem Prof:  Done Help:Archiving a talk page is mainly for automatic archiving, and I agree, it is very confusing. The manual archives are now installed on your talk page and in your sandbox. As you can probably see, you can access them by clicking on the link in the little box. There is also a searchbox for later when they have grown vast and you need to find something in them. Installing them is very easy. You just copy the code I have placed at the top of the page:

{{Archives}}

<!-- EDIT BELOW THIS LINE -->

on any page where you want an archive and hit save. After that you click on the text "Archive 1", which is red at first, and a new page for creating the first archive page will open. You write something, anything, on it and hit "Save". After a couple of minutes the new archive page has been accepted by the system and the text "Archive 1" will turn blue and is ready to be used.

You create more sandboxes by writing the name of it in the normal seachbox (upper right-hand side) and hit Enter. That will take you to a page where you are invited to create the page. OR... you can do it the easy way: Just type the name of it somewhere and put it in double square brackets and hit save. The name will then appear as a red link. Click on that link and you will instantly get to the page of creating the sandbox. Here are some such links for you to start with, look in the editing window how they are written. Just click on them, write something just a letter is sufficient, and hit "Save". After that the links will turn blue and you have your new sandbox.

User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox01

User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox02

User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox03

User:Retired Pchem Prof/sandbox04

All yours! w.carter-Talk 20:48, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Congratulations! You now have at least two sandboxes. Other Users are likely to make comments on the associated Talk pages, and they might even make minor changes to the contents of the sandboxes themselves. I suspect such edits by others aren't automatically drawn to your attention so they should be part of your Watchlist. By clicking on "Watchlist" in the top right of your page you can see a list of any recent edits made to all the articles on your Watchlist. To add an article, or its Talk page, or some other User's page or Talk page, to your Watchlist just go to that page and click once on the star immediately to the left of the Search bar in the top right of the Wikipedia page. To read more about Watchlists, see Help:Watchlist. Dolphin (t) 07:01, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Dolphin51! The text above was copied here from posts on my talk page by Retired Pchem Prof himself. Thanks you for giving some extra info about the Watchlist. :) w.carter-Talk 07:18, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I only copied this here as a temporary measure, intending to delete it when done. Retired Pchem Prof (talk) 17:22, 22 January 2016 (UTC)