Rowan Cairns

COI Edit Request

Hello editors, I’m declaring a COI and requesting that edits be made. I’m working for George on a temporary basis, and I want to update this entry.

Requested edits:

In the ‘Career’ section, delete fourth para (‘Among his best-known articles…Bob Geldof and Bono’) and insert

‘Monbiot began writing for the Guardian in 1996. He may be the first journalist worldwide to fully reference his columns, having done so since 2003. Among his best-known articles are:

A long read about the wide-ranging impacts of neoliberalism: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

About the “corporate misinformation machine” that supplied many of Donald Trump’s staffers: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/donald-trump-george-monbiot-misinformation

About the global crisis of soil loss: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/25/treating-soil-like-dirt-fatal-mistake-human-life

About the psychological and physical impacts of the “age of loneliness”: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/14/age-of-loneliness-killing-us

He appears to have been:

the first journalist to have raised concerns about the environmental impacts of biofuels, in 2004: http://www.monbiot.com/2004/11/23/feeding-cars-not-people/

the first to propose leaving fossil fuels in the ground to prevent climate change, in 2007: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/dec/11/comment.greenpolitics

and the first in the national press to have exposed the letter sent by David Cameron, revealing the prime minister’s naivety about the impact of his government’s cuts: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire

His article in 2014 about the public subsidies and farm policies that exacerbate flooding triggered a major national debate, that continues to this day: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/flooding-public-spending-britain-europe-policies-homes

He gave a Ted talk in July 2013: https://www.ted.com/talks/george_monbiot_for_more_wonder_rewild_the_world

An extract from the talk, called How Wolves Change Rivers, set to pictures and music by the Sustainable Human group, has been watched 28 million times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q&t=4s

Monbiot made a second video with Sustainable Human, called How Whales Change Climate (January 2015): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M18HxXve3CM

In 2016, he revealed that he had converted to veganism a year earlier: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/09/vegan-corrupt-food-system-meat-dairy'

...... I’d like the article to then continue with existing fifth para, beginning ‘In January 2011’.

At the end of the ‘Career’ section, I’d like to insert:

Album

In October 2016, George Monbiot released his first album, Breaking the Spell of Loneliness (http://alanbearmanmusic.co.uk/artists/george-monbiot-ewan-mclennan/), written with the musician Ewan McLennan. Monbiot wrote the first draft of the lyrics, McLennan refined them and wrote the music. This is a concept album on the theme of loneliness and how it might be addressed.

It arose from an article Monbiot wrote in the Guardian (The age of loneliness is killing us) (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/14/age-of-loneliness-killing-us) . The article went viral, but instead of accepting offers from publishers to write a book about it, Monbiot wanted to do something that had the potential to bring people together. He approached McLennan with the idea (http://www.monbiot.com/music/).

The album has been well-reviewed (http://www.monbiot.com/music/), earning four stars in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/20/ewan-mclennan-and-george-monbiot-breaking-the-spell-of-loneliness-review-fellside), Songlines and R2 magazine, and five stars in EDS magazine.

Monbiot and McLennan have been touring the album around Britain (http://www.ewanmclennan.co.uk/breaking-the-spell-of-loneliness) – Monbiot discusses the themes and McLennan plays and sings the songs. The performances are designed to create social connections: the audience is encouraged to meet each other and continue the evening in a nearby pub.'

..... Thanks in advance for any help with this. I’m looking for sources to reference the reviews in Songlines, R2 and EDS magazine, as I'm aware they're not cited.

Rowan Cairns (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2017 (UTC) Rowan Cairns (talk) 20:46, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Please could you find third-party sources for your recent edits as the basis for the notability of content is demonstrated by them. While it's perfectly legitimate to add citations to George Monbiot's articles, much of your work is liable to be deemed as having an insufficiently detached tone and changed or deleted as a result. In particular, see the Wikipedia policy page on Neutral point of view, but Identifying reliable sources and verifiability will be of help too. Philip Cross (talk) 13:08, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi there. In addition to the concerns expressed above, make sure to read through the instructions before submitting an edit request. One of them is to give other editors working on the article an opportunity to give their opinion on the proposed edit. Thus, the edit request should be posted on the article's talkpage. Edit request declined. Regards, VB00 (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Edit request refused - making request again - help appreciated

Hi again,

My talk page has the following messages: Please could you find third-party sources for your recent edits as the basis for the notability of content is demonstrated by them. While it's perfectly legitimate to add citations to George Monbiot's articles, much of your work is liable to be deemed as having an insufficiently detached tone and changed or deleted as a result. In particular, see the Wikipedia policy page on Neutral point of view, but Identifying reliable sources and verifiability will be of help too. Philip Cross (talk) 13:08, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

   Hi there. In addition to the concerns expressed above, make sure to read through the instructions before submitting an edit request. One of them is to give other editors working on the article an opportunity to give their opinion on the proposed edit. Thus, the edit request should be posted on the article's talkpage. Edit request declined. Regards, VB00 (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2017 (UTC) 

As can be seen above, I had posted the requested edits on this talk page, but am now making them again - is it that I should have left them there until responded to? Advice, please!

Here are my requested edits:

In the ‘Career’ section, delete fourth para (‘Among his best-known articles…Bob Geldof and Bono’) and insert

‘Monbiot began writing for the Guardian in 1996. He may be the first journalist worldwide to fully reference his columns, having done so since 2003. Among his best-known articles are:

A long read about the wide-ranging impacts of neoliberalism: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

About the “corporate misinformation machine” that supplied many of Donald Trump’s staffers: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/donald-trump-george-monbiot-misinformation

About the global crisis of soil loss: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/25/treating-soil-like-dirt-fatal-mistake-human-life

About the psychological and physical impacts of the “age of loneliness”: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/14/age-of-loneliness-killing-us

He appears to have been:

the first journalist to have raised concerns about the environmental impacts of biofuels, in 2004: http://www.monbiot.com/2004/11/23/feeding-cars-not-people/

the first to propose leaving fossil fuels in the ground to prevent climate change, in 2007: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/dec/11/comment.greenpolitics

and the first in the national press to have exposed the letter sent by David Cameron, revealing the prime minister’s naivety about the impact of his government’s cuts: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire

His article in 2014 about the public subsidies and farm policies that exacerbate flooding triggered a major national debate, that continues to this day: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/flooding-public-spending-britain-europe-policies-homes

He gave a Ted talk in July 2013: https://www.ted.com/talks/george_monbiot_for_more_wonder_rewild_the_world

An extract from the talk, called How Wolves Change Rivers, set to pictures and music by the Sustainable Human group, has been watched 28 million times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q&t=4s

Monbiot made a second video with Sustainable Human, called How Whales Change Climate (January 2015): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M18HxXve3CM

In 2016, he revealed that he had converted to veganism a year earlier: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/09/vegan-corrupt-food-system-meat-dairy'

I’d like the article to then continue with existing fifth para, beginning ‘In January 2011’.

At the end of the ‘Career’ section, I’d like to insert:

Album

In October 2016, George Monbiot released his first album, Breaking the Spell of Loneliness (http://alanbearmanmusic.co.uk/artists/george-monbiot-ewan-mclennan/), written with the musician Ewan McLennan. Monbiot wrote the first draft of the lyrics, McLennan refined them and wrote the music. This is a concept album on the theme of loneliness and how it might be addressed.

It arose from an article Monbiot wrote in the Guardian (The age of loneliness is killing us) (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/14/age-of-loneliness-killing-us) . The article went viral, but instead of accepting offers from publishers to write a book about it, Monbiot wanted to do something that had the potential to bring people together. He approached McLennan with the idea (http://www.monbiot.com/music/).

The album has been well-reviewed (http://www.monbiot.com/music/), earning four stars in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/20/ewan-mclennan-and-george-monbiot-breaking-the-spell-of-loneliness-review-fellside), Songlines and R2 magazine, and five stars in EDS magazine.

Monbiot and McLennan have been touring the album around Britain (http://www.ewanmclennan.co.uk/breaking-the-spell-of-loneliness) – Monbiot discusses the themes and McLennan plays and sings the songs. The performances are designed to create social connections: the audience is encouraged to meet each other and continue the evening in a nearby pub.'

I'll also make another formal edit request - hope we can get this sorted - thanks for any help!

Rowan Cairns (talk) 10:44, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Help request

My edit request - for George Monbiot's page - has been refused (please see above), and I don't understand why, and don't know how to proceed.

I've declared my existing COI. As far as I can tell, none of the content is controversial. The articles I refer to were printed in the Guardian, so are a matter of public record. I can't provide third-party citations, as none exist - there are no biographies I can draw on.

Please let me know exactly what I need to do/show, in order to make these changes.

Thanks,

Rowan Cairns (talk) 11:07, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi there. I do not have much experience in explaining the relevant guidelines to someone else, but let's try to go through each part of your edit request. First, the Career section request. You request to delete a paragraph and replace it with the one written by you.

The first problem with that is, you did not give any reasons for this change "If the rationale for a change is not obvious (particularly for proposed deletions), explain." (Extract from instructions for submitters). Next, let's take a sentence from the paragraph - "He may be the first journalist worldwide to fully reference his columns, having done so since 2003". Note that no reference to a reliable source for this sentence is provided, thus, it does not follow the verifiability policy of wikipedia. Note that this is also mentioned in the edit request instructions - "Reliable sourcing that verifies suggested content is the lifeblood of Wikipedia articles. Almost any edit you suggest should be accompanied by citation to a reliable source – and often by a secondary and independent source, rather than a primary source".

Next, you give something akin to a list (which is unadvised, you should talk about the works in prose, just like it's done in the article - relevant guideline), and include external links in the body of text (which also shouldn't be normally done - external links guideline), once again omitting the needed references that mention those specific articles as George Monbiot's best known ones.

Also, things such as "he appears to have been" is not encyclopedic tone (partial explanation of tone), and appears to represent original research, which cannot be included.

Lastly, the "Album" request. You appear to give that aspect of George's career undue weight. Another editor has rewritten all of that information in a short paragraph, giving that aspect of his timeline appropriate weight, as well as including the needed citations. Hopefully, this will help you understand why your edit request was not implemented. Please note that I have replaced the admin help template with another one asking for help from an editor, as I don't think this requires administrator attention in case you wish to get feedback from someone else. Regards, VB00 (talk) 12:20, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

I'd say the article's talk page would be a better place to discuss the substance of the proposal. To me VB00 seems to have explained the problems with your request rather thoroughly. Huon (talk) 19:54, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for the input above, VB00 and Huon

Rowan Cairns (talk) 10:00, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Requests transferred to George Monbiot's talk page

As suggested above - the new requests I'm making will be posted to GM's talk page. Thanks for all the help Rowan Cairns (talk) 12:00, 7 July 2017 (UTC)