User talk:Rugbyfan22/Archive 11

NRU

Hi there, I've noticed a couple of new articles Alexandru Alexe and Cristi Boboc. Do they meet NRU? They have been called up to the Romania team but not yet played and play in the Romanian league. I imagine they will get a game this year at some point but thought I'd ask. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:38, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Spiderone Hi mate, from what I can find neither currently passes WP:NRU. Boboc has played for Romania 7s but not in a notable competition. I can find nothing that currently states they pass WP:GNG but there might be some non-English language stuff I can't see. Probably should be draftified if they both have been named in international squads for February as stated. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:44, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Having also just looked on Romania national rugby union team there may be other recently created players that don't currently pass WP:NRU as well. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:46, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: Tudor Butnariu, Florian Roșu, Julien Bartoli and Paul Popoaia also don't qualify under WP:NRU, I haven't done a GNG check on any of them though. Marius Iftimiciuc passes as he played in the European Challenge Cup. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:51, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I would agree with draftifying as well (for the newer ones - some of these articles are actually quite old!). Unfortunately, the user involved has copied and pasted it back to mainspace from draft space so it didn't serve its intended purpose. I'll see if they make their debut in February and, if they don't, it might be worth discussion at AfD. In football, we've deleted articles where players were called up to the national team but never actually played. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:53, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone:, Seems that a couple of users have created a lot of Romanian rugby pages under the impression that it's notable or not understanding notability guidelines, many of them may well be notable though. The whole CSA Steaua București (rugby) team have articles created for them for example, along with the majority of CSM Știința Baia Mare's squad. SCM Rugby Timișoara also have the majority of their squad created, but they have played European Challenge Cup in previous years. I'm not sure I've got the time to do a deep dive on the Romanian league though, and think clarifying GNG will be difficult with Romanian language sources. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 21:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

What's the easiest way to check if someone has played in the Challenge Cup? For example Ciprian Lucaci looks to be a GNG fail. Is there any website that would list his Challenge Cup matches (if any)? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:46, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: I tend to use itsrugby (itsrugby.co.uk) for finding out playing stats, it's reliable for the majority of big competitions and certainly will be accurate for Challenge Cup. Lucaci has only played Romanian league and no international appearances according to itsrugby. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:18, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. It's clear now looking at Marius Iftimiciuc that Challenge Cup appearances are clearly recorded on itsrugby so it's highly unlikely that Lucaci meets NRU. There is also a complete lack of a profile on other rugby database websites so I've put him up for AfD and notified the creator. Interestingly, I've noticed Georgia isn't listed as a High Performance Union. Do you know if any discussion has ever taken place to add Georgia? I've noticed a ludicrous number of rugby player articles for people who have only played in Georgia and only played at U20 level and have put some of the obvious NRU/GNG fails up for PROD. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:16, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: I don't know of any discussion recently, Georgia have only really started playing tier 1 nations semi-regularly recently so it may be a change that could be discussed. If they have represented Georgia at a world cup or in a notable 7s competition then they pass WP:NRU though. Personally I think there a bits that could be updated, for example I'm not sure on the notability of the Russian league anymore, their stats aren't recorded on stats sites. I might put it on the WikiProject just to see if anything on Georgia has been discussed elsewhere. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:49, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone:, Have had a more detailed look at Romanian rugby articles, I've PRODed another 7 or 8 today and have then made a list of others that need PRODing (don't want to throw so many through at once like with the American rugby articles). There's another 20 or some to go and they're on my sandbox. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@Rugbyfan22: - I agree with them all. I'm very surprised that Joji Sikote wasn't picked up before by somebody! Wow Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:47, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: Had a couple similar on American articles. I think because they all look the same people just skip through them quickly. Will have to see if they go through or have to go to AfD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I'd be surprised if even half of them get deleted via PROD. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: I agree. I haven't done WP:BEFORE searches on the ones on my sandbox yet so some of them may not be put up anyway. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone:, three have been dePRODED and so I've put them up for AfD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 17:13, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

• @Spiderone:, For the original 5 uncapped Romanians named in the most recent international squad, the game has been called off due to COVID. They therefore aren't likely to pass WP:NRU anytime soon as it was their only planned game. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 21:20, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Do any of them look like passing GNG? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone:, Can find nothing on all six of them apart from match reports, squad announcements and a couple of pieces from the clubs they play for, so nothing that looks like passing GNG. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:01, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'll do a search on them myself and AfD the ones that don't turn up any SIGCOV. Probably too controversial for PROD. What's your opinion on Category:Hong Kong rugby union players? I've noticed that Hong Kong isn't listed as a High Performance Union so do these players fail NRU or do they pass them for their Sevens appearances? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:49, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone:, Had a look at all of them. All are notable under WP:NRU except Kelsie Bouttle, Gavin Hadley and Niall Rowark from what I can find. There seem to be some Hong Kong born players in there as well as John Barclay and Graeme Morrison are both quite famous Scottish internationals. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 13:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

• @Spiderone:, where you able to find some sources on the two that haven't been AfDed yet? Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:15, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything so I've AfD'd them as well. Paul Popoaia had two decent refs but they were both primary sources and Florian Roșu doesn't look like he's even close to GNG. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, will remove them from my lists. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Page moves

Please remember when you move pages, that you have to follow up with links in the navboxes, and link them to the new article name.Fleets (talk) 20:05, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Fleets:, I'll go through and fix them, I've not changed any redirects so would they still not just link to the same page? Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, yeah they would no longer display, as seen with Jim Sullivan.Fleets (talk) 21:17, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fleets:, I'm happy to change those ones, but as they're redirects that aren't broken as they still say Jim Sullivan anyway, per WP:NOTBROKEN i'm not sure they need fixing. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 21:20, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Lote Tuqiri

The page move that you performed for Lote Tuquri and his cousin would fall foul of Primary topic, as it is clear who the user would expect to find here, with the cousin being a note at the top, this article is for the dual code international, for his cousin, see...Fleets (talk) 06:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fleets: Having reviewed this you are probably correct. Made the moves in good faith due to the cousin having an unsuitable disambiguation. I have moved the disambiguation page and have requested that Lote Tuqiri be moved back (currently is a redirect to him). Apologies. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

No worries, and no apologies necessary at all.Fleets (talk) 11:52, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fleets:, Should all be fixed now, and have reverted the changes to his navboxes as well. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:41, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

"Pumas (rugby team)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Pumas (rugby team). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 11#Pumas (rugby team) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:41, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Lote Tuqiri (disambiguation)

The article Lote Tuqiri (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

DAB page with only two entries, one a WP:PTOPIC, so best dealt with by a hatnote - see WP:ONEOTHER

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

(Good move BTW - the dual-code player is clear WP:PTOPIC.) Narky Blert (talk) 14:29, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

{rugby player)

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only editor who thinks that {rugby player) should only ever be the qualifier for people who have played both codes (e.g. your move of John Douglas (rugby player)). Of course, (rugby) is even worse. If you come across a move you can't make because the other page is in the way, {{ping}} me - I have the WP:PAGEMOVER superpower, and can do a clean page swap.

(I also keep my eyes open for rugby in the lead. It almost always means union - you know that, and so do I - but our readers may not.) Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 20:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, Thanks for offering your help. I think i've been through the majority of players and moved almost all of them, there might be a few left though. The rugby union WikiProject has decided that (rugby player) shouldn't be used at all as it's too ambiguous (could mean union, league, beach rugby or wheelchair rugby really), with (rugby union) used for rugby union players, (rugby league) used for rugby league players and (rugby) used for dual-code players, or players who played before the code split in 1895. A few that I have noticed have rugby union footballer in the lead, and quite often when this occurs they are added to the Football WikiProject instead by accident or the reviewer making a mistake, so I've tried to correct a few of these also. Happy to contact if I have any future issues though. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:40, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, Hi there mate. Just doing a tidy up again and have found Jim Mills (rugby league). Obviously he was a more notable rugby league player but he had a rugby union career before so should really be moved to Jim Mills (rugby). Any chance you could do that for me so I don't have to do a RM. Thanks. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 15:04, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you, and have done what's in effect a slow-motion revert of that 2010 move, using the WP:ROUNDROBIN technique to preserve history. I've also added back {{R from move}} to what is now the redirect Jim Mills (rugby league) - it's needed so that future editors can work out what went on.

On further thought after our last convo, I agree that (rugby) is a better qualifier for pre-split/dual-code players than (rugby player). Although there's no consistency across sports, why use two words when one will do? Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 16:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, Many thanks for this. I've been through and changed the links in the templates that link to the page as well. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 16:15, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, Apologies I've found another one. James Grehan (rugby player) has only played rugby league so needs to be moved to James Grehan (rugby league). Looks to be a recent disambig move. Many thanks. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 16:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done. No need to apologise, these things need doing. I've also turned James Grehan into a DAB page - it was redirecting to the musician, and 4 out 6 mainspace links were about the other man. (See WP:BPAT. Sigh.) Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 17:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, Many thanks again. Seems the original move was by the creator of the musician page who wanted it to be the main topic, but it's clear there's no main topic here. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 17:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Any time! Many editors, even in WP:RM discussions, don't understand the difference between WP:ONEOTHER and WP:TWODABS (and hardly anyone cares a hoot about bad links). Narky Blert (talk) 18:34, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Logo for Super Rugby AU 2021.png

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Jannes Labuschagne

Hey, I noticed that the player infamous for that red card tackle on Jonny Wilkinson doesn't have an article. Do you reckon he'd be notable enough? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:48, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone:, He certainly passes WP:NRU with 11 international caps and 35 Super Rugby appearances according to itsrugby. There looks to be reasonable coverage for him also. I also note there is a page on Italian wikipedia which could be translated. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:16, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I decided to create a stub. It'll need a little copy edit as I don't usually write rugby articles but at least it's better than no article. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:13, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: Have added a couple of bits, hopefully somebody will pick it up and add to it. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:54, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Ways to improve Archer Holz

Hello, Rugbyfan22,

Thank you for creating Archer Holz.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

I'm getting an error on the external link to itsrugby.co.uk. Thanks for the article

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Joseywales1961}}. Remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

JW 1961 Talk 13:56, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Joseywales1961:, Hi there, the itsrugby site had an outage and is currently being repaired, think they've lost all stats/new players since the start of the year and are working to re-add them. I think this will be the link when the site is back up and running, but am happy to hide until the site is up and running. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 13:59, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Rugbyfan22, Thank you. Have a great weekend (if that's possible these days) JW 1961 Talk 14:01, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Bristol Bears / Lloyd Brothers

Apologies for my inaccurate update of Bristol Bears. I wasn't aware that Ioan Lloyd was still with the academy, and that Jac was signed for next season...

Overexcited and got ahead of myself ;-) dwhatley (talk) 11:15, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Dwhatley No worries, the academy/development squad senior squad groups have caught me out before, especially with all these different contract names they're giving such as senior academy contracts and stuff like that. Thanks for your contributions. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:22, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

John Allen (Irish cricketer)‎

Hi. I see you recreated this as a redirect. Per my comments at the AFD, he was clearly known as Wallace, not John, so I don't think this redirect is particularly helpful. Having been deleted, I'd probably say consensus has determined he's not more notable than the subject of the current Wallace Allen redirect, but perhaps Wallace Allen (cricketer) is appropriate as a redirect? _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:52, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Wjemather, I see no reason why they both can't be redirects, realistically those searching him will probably have found their information from CricInfo or CricketArchive which i both think list him as John. The list also lists him as John. Will create a redirect for Wallace Allen (cricketer) for now though. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 14:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure. I've removed the wikilink and changed his name to John Wallace in the list so he can be more easily found either way. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:59, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you

For your comments at the ANI thread - they were very much appreciated. Take care. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 20:28, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Lugnuts No problems, apologies you had to go through that when it's clearly a policy issue and not an editor issue. I very much appreciate your creations, it's just a shame people would rather see them deleted instead of improved. Sometimes I feel that some editors think there's a limit on the number of articles we can have and so some must be cleared for others, and cricket is just being picked on at the moment. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:34, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Various Rugby Clubs Speedy Deletions - Assistance!

I've created three pages and all have been proposed for speedy deletion. I have tidied them up and added more secondary references and citations to negate this for Ashington JW RFC, Blyth RFC and Ponteland RFC.

Hi @Novos1989:, Of these three pages all fail the rugby union related guidelines for clubs as shown here however this does not mean they can't have an article if they can be shown to pass GNG. Looking at all three, all currently do not pass GNG as they need more to show significant coverage. The newspaper articles on all three in terms of players actions are just trivial coverage. However if articles about the club that would pass GNG can be found or if there's anything on the rugby guidelines that has been missed from the article (perhaps a player that went onto play Internationally) then they possibly could be kept. Also please remember to sign your comments. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 16:00, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

English women

Yes thanks I am aware of the arbitrary guidelines around women’s rugby notibility. Unfortunately the women’s World Cup has been postponed from this year, and the England team have won back to back grand slams in the 6 nations, so seems obvious to me to that some discretion can be awarded to the notability in the unprecedented times, as it’ll be 5+ years before any more women rugby players can be added. That’s a significant chunk of a career, and a significant absence from the encyclopaedia. Hildreth gazzard (talk) 09:52, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

There is no problems in adding women's rugby union players if they can be shown to pass GNG, which some of them may be able to, but any discretion would have to be discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union. Notability is judged on coverage, and the women's Six Nations doesn't bring the same amount of coverage as a Women's World Cup semi-finals or their male equivalent competitions. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

"Mushtaq Ahmed (cricketer, born 1997)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Mushtaq Ahmed (cricketer, born 1997). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 4#Mushtaq Ahmed (cricketer, born 1997) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. --Pontificalibus 09:51, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

"Basit Saeed" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Basit Saeed. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 4#Basit Saeed until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:41, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Cricket comps list

Hi. It maybe an idea to make it clear that we are talking about presumed notability of players in each competition? Per one of my earlier comments, coverage of the competition does not always translate to coverage of the players. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:41, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Wjemather I've tried to make this clear, but I still feel people think that if a competition gets coverage it means the players get coverage. I've removed a few more tournaments where I believe that to be the case (notably the Irish ones). I don't think we're far away now, maybe just a few more discussions on comps need to be had.

Sorry, I was referring to the wording in your draft list itself. Yes, certainly seem to be making progress. Unfortunately I'm short on wiki-time at the moment, but will try and catch up on everything in the week. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:51, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Ah I see, I've fixed that now on the list with a note at the top and changed the wording. I've also added the non-notable comps in another section so it's easier to see what's been removed. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:58, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

I was about to say something similar earlier this evening - per my reply to Tvk. I think we need to be clear that we think that people who have played in this set of competitions are likely to have suitable in depth sources about them and that this is based on our experiences from AfD and of writing articles. As such, we can presume that sources exist for people who played in these competitions. Does that make sense?

At some point we might also need to be super-clear that people who played in other tournaments might have in depth articles about them as well and that if they have then it's grand to write about them - otherwise we risk getting responses like "not on the list, so not notable" about people who are really obviously notable. Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:48, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing:, Realistically, these are probably things for the updated CRIN more than NCRIC which should be as precise as possible and OFFCRIC which is basically a list of points. It could possible be added to NCRIC underneath the guidelines, but I still feel a more detailed version would be needed in CRIN. I sent you a draft of what I've started for CRIN on your talk page so feel free to look at that and edit bits of it, perhaps added a bit more detail on sourcing. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:10, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Hey, sorry but I haven't gotten around to looking through this stuff properly yet - real life etc... I'll try to do so over the next few days: I may well copy it all into my own sandbox and see what I can do there rather than edit too much in yours. Then we can compare and contrast... Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:46, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Yeah no worries take your time as it's looking like I'll have to let my proposal run its course. I imagine we can still update OFFCRIC and CRIN with just Cricket WikiProject approval if the proposal on NCRIC doesn't go through. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:50, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

South African cricket coverage

Hi Rugbyfan22. If you know reliable sources/websites where we can find coverage related to South African cricket bios then please help me complete this list. Thanks. Störm (talk) 14:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

@Störm:, Most of the larger newspapers will cover cricket in SA, but many of them will have paywalls and won't have extensive archives for historic players. I use SPORT24 for rugby coverage and it does cover cricket, but some of their content is behind a paywall also. They do some interviews from time to time though. I've not really gone into much detail on SA cricketers before though so other users might be a better bet on finding sources. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 16:33, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Störm (talk) 16:40, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Blyth RFC

Hello Rugbyfan22. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Blyth RFC, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Previous close was a soft delete so please renominate at AFD if you think it is not notable. Thank you. SmartSE (talk) 16:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Smartse Ok thanks, will nominate for AfD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 16:28, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Cafeteros Pro logo.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Cobras Brasil XV logo.jpg

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Bunnings NPC

Hi, do you think the National Provincial Championship (2006–present) article should be moved back to Bunnings NPC as this is the common name and simpler and keep the National Provincial Championship (1976–2005) article as it is? Socks 01 (talk) 06:59, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Socks 01, I think it's good as it is now. Keeping it at this non-sponsored title will mean we won't have to change it every few years when another sponsor takes the naming rights. Keeping sponsored season pages though such as 2021 Bunnings NPC is fine as it'll likely be the common name for that season. Both the historic and current pages could do with tidying up though. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Super_Rugby_Trans-Tasman

SIR

I see you are updating this comp's page match-by-match

I also keenly follow SR -- watch every game LIVE and on completion of round do this in KARTULI | GEORGIAN http://ragbi2021.qaflan.net/

To my amazement, SANZAAR official site gives OLD SCHOOL attacking bonus -- for 4th try whereas TV commentators and graphic makers imply that it should be given for MODERN 3+

I've contacted SANZAAR by FB but they seem to be arrogant scums -=- why should they reply?

My quest: have you seen ANY source mentioning this radical THROW BACK, or it's been done in true rugby way, ie CLANDESTINELY?

I wonder if teams were informed either

Thank you in advance for your attention | time

Zurziki, It surprised me also. At first I thought it was an error, but after the Crusaders/Brumbies game today it hadn't been fixed and the Brumbies got 2 bonus points. The updated rules for the competition didn't list the change either, but as all the official table are listed bonus points for what seems to be 4 tries I'm going with it until there's an update or confirmation. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:59, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

THANK YOU, SIR. I've turned 60, lived for first 30 years in USSR and seen a lot of RUBBISH -- but RUGBY, even top flight of it, keeps making me dumb. Then we wake next day and see a new NSW girl was entrusted with making SRTT tables and she thought it was some sort of Shute Shield — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zurziki (talk • contribs) 13:09, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Zurziki, the problem has now been fixed. Bonus points are now the same as in previous Super Rugby season, just looks like it was an automatic table error. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:14, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Player loans becoming permanent

So what do you think is the best approach on the transfer pages for when players like Volpi or Arwel Robson join a team they are on loan with? In both cases the players were signed on loan deals to the end of the season (when their original contracts with the parent club expired), and then subsequently signed new, permanent deals starting at the beginning of the 2021-22 season. De facto they've effectively left the club, but de jure, they are technically seeing out their loan and then beginning a new contract with the same club.

My position is that in these situations the current season page should show the loan deal to, and then the subsequent deal should be shown as a new signing for the new club in the new season. This would avoid the current situation where you have listed Arwel Robson as leaving Dragons for Pirates twice in the same season (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2020%E2%80%9321_Pro14_transfers#Dragons). Also, this way it's consistent if the subsequent deal was with a different (third) club, in which case they would be listed in the current season just as the loan from club 1 to club 2, and then on the next season transfer page as a new signing for Club 3, from Club 1 (even though in practice they've moved from club 2 to 3).

Seems the most elegant and consistent way to resolve it, and on that basis I'd say Robson's (permanent) transfer to Cornish Pirates should go back to the 21/22 page where I originally put it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Figaro-ahp (talk • contribs) 15:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@Figaro-ahp:, in terms of Volpi it specifically says in the press release that the deal is for next season. In terms of the Robson deal it just states he has joined the Pirates on a one year deal, with no specific indication of when that is from. I think it is better to list loan deals becoming permanent, but if your reading of the Robson deal is that it's a one year deal from next season then I'm happy to change it to next seasons list. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@Rugbyfan22: the Pirates' press releases suggest that the initial loan was 'until the end of the season' and that this new deal is "for at least the 2021-22 season". I would read that as being the same situation as Volpi, i.e. adding a new permanent contract beginning at the end of the previous temporary one.

@Figaro-ahp:, Ok thanks for that information. I'm happy to copy it over then having read the Pirates release myself now. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:00, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

No problem 👍 Figaro-ahp (talk) 19:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Tommy Seymour

If you can find a source that says "immediate effect" then I'll take it, but Seymour is still listed in match squad announcements on the Warriors' site. (see the release for This weekend's game: https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/three-changes-to-starting-xv-for-visit-of-leinster )

Seymour, along with Chris Fusaro, may be injured, but if they are still being listed in the "unavailable" bit, then they haven't officially retired yet.

@Tastyniall:, The release from Glasgow on his retirement, his own release and other news outlets stated it was an immediate retirement in the tone of the releases. If he was to retire at the end of the season it'd have likely said he'd retire at the end of the season. Fusaro's release certainly stated that. He's most likely still listed as an injured player as they haven't bothered to remove him from the injured list they copy from teamsheet to teamsheet. If your reading of the tone of the releases is different and believe it's an end of season retirement we can try and get some consensus on it on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:41, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/seymour-retires-from-professional-rugby - sorry, show me where it says immediate effect? Any other time a player has left a club mid-season they aren't still listed as "unavailable" on the club's releases.

@Tastyniall: The tense of the press release seems to show its immediate. As does the BBC report, Scotsman and Sky among others. If it was for the end of the season they'd likely say 'to retire'. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 15:22, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/glasgow-warriors-confirm-departures This is somewhat more definitive: "Glasgow Warriors can confirm that 18 players will be leaving the club following the conclusion of the 2020/21 campaign." Tastyniall (talk) 08:03, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Tastyniall:, this still doesn't change my opinion. On Seymour it states he "announced his retirement earlier this month". The list also lists players that departed as early as January in Bryce and Thomson. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:28, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

The article says The leavers join three further players who have departed the club earlier this season, those three are Thomson, Bryce and Kelly, therefore the rest are leaving at the end of the season. If we're taking the BBC's view on it (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57376454) it says Tommy Seymour is retiring, which to me means he hasn't officially retired yet. At no point has any release said "immediate effect" in relation to either Seymour or Fusaro's retirements. Tastyniall (talk) 11:09, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Tastuniall:, I was under the impression that was an error from the BBC as I can't see anything anywhere else on Kelly leaving early. Glasgow had also announced that Nicol had left earlier this season also so I'm not sure it's correct. You're welcome to try and get further consensus as I said above though. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

CfD tagging

Hey, just an FYI, when you nominate multiple categories at once, you need to tag all of them - not just the first one. If not tagged, consensus from the nomination generally isn't considered valid (as people interested in the categories may not have seen the discussion). Thanks! Elli (talk | contribs) 19:57, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

@Elli:, ok thanks, will add them now. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Which "format" to use for rugby teams?

Hi Rugbyfan22, I've noticed that some contributors use this format for rugby teams: "Hurricanes (rugby union)|Hurricanes" between double square brackets, while others use "Rut Hurricanes" between double curly brackets.
Other example: "Wellington (National Provincial Championship)|Wellington" between double square brackets or "Rut Wellington" between double curly brackets. Which one should be used? The one with square brackets or the one with curly brackets?
Not sure "format" is the right term here, but I didn't know what else to call it.

@Ruggalicious:, either can be used. They both provide a link to the same result. I prefer using the Rut templates (i.e. Rut Wellington) because it's easier and less to type out, but others like to use the full team name links. It just an ease thing for teams where there's disambiguation in the name. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Rugbyfan22

Thank you for creating David Brits.

User:Joseywales1961, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Can you fix reference 1 itsrugby - it points to anotgher player Janus Venter. Thank you

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Joseywales1961}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

JW 1961 ^Talk 14:58, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

@Joseywales1961:, whoops! Have fixed this now. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 15:03, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Rugbyfan22, Thank you, have a great weekend JW 1961 ^Talk 16:26, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Rugby World Cups

Morning! Hope all is well. Quick question - looking at WP:NRU, I assume anyone who has played at least one Rugby World Cup match meets our notability requirements? And your Police Squad quote of "I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith" is one of the funniest moments in TV history. :D Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 11:02, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

@Lugnuts:, In terms of WP:NRU anyone who's played in a World Cup match is notable. If they're named in the squad but don't play they're not notable. Other international matches for top nations also bring notability and there should be a list of them there as well. And yes, one of the greatest TV series of all time, it was away ahead of its time! Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:55, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Evening! I've made a start with basic stubs for Spence McTavish, Ro Hindson and John Lecky (rugby union, born 1960). I'll work on some more later. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:50, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

@Lugnuts:, Excellent! Thanks a lot, there's no hurry over these but it'd be nice for them to be done given it's players who've played in World Cups. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 17:56, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Ollie Pope

WP:NOTTRUTH. For reference, the reason he hardly keeps is because of Ben Foakes being at the club, and the reason he is not keeping at the moment because of a thigh problem which has kept him out of the Hants Championship game altogether. This, however, is irrelevant. The source clearly states Pope is a keeper: it doesn't matter, in WP guidelines, how often he keeps. Spa-Franks (talk) 02:21, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

@Spa-Franks:, there's a discussion on this and the squad pages for counties and other sides currently occurring at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket#Ollie Pope. Many thanks. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:07, 8 July 2021 (UTC)