User talk:Rzafar/Sandbox

Sections

The correct sectioning starts with 2 '=' not with one, that was why I changed it all for you but you reversed it. It will only need to be changed back again. No one used the single = for the first level section. Check out this page. Cheers ww2censor 16:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

no problem, will do it once I get the writing done.

Cinderellas

Do you think I should put a few sentences on cinderellas related to Pakistan but issued before Partition?

I would not bother as it is outside the scope of the article. ww2censor 23:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Structure

I am a bit worried about all your section headings, many of which are rather short and some contain only one or two sentences. You would be better served to consolidate some of those into some longer paragraphs under the one section, combining some of the topics together, is they go together appropriately. You will likely have to restructure, but that will likely happen anyway as you go along. BTW, it seems to me that the [[Definitive stamp|definitive] are getting very little information when they are usually the most used and often quite interesting stamps. I don't know if this is the case for Pakistan. Also you use some what we refer to a weasel words that avoid you committing yourself. It is better to write more specifically: On such and such a date such and such a thing happened, rather than, as you wrote "Various series have been issued over the years". It is too vague and really tells me nothing, better to be precise but remember that it is an encyclopaedia too, not a catalogue, so detail should, if possible, be even throughout, not very detailed here and there and then vague elsewhere. Better to omit a section than not write it well. Don't be offended, it is all by way of getting the best article possible. Don't forget to look at some of the other stamp articles for guidance; they are listed here. I know I suggested Postage stamps of Ireland, not just because I wrote most of it, but it is well laid out and structured, and actually well written too.

Do you have any images ready? I ask because there are issues concerning copyright. Do you know the situation re copyright of Pakistan stamps? If they are not in the Public Domain then you have to rely on a Fair Use rationale which are quite strict, but we can discuss that later. Maybe those older than a certain number of years are PD. Research that for me if you can because I could not find anything on the Pakistan post website other than a simple copyright notice for the site. ww2censor 23:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

well, I haven't finished writing any section as yet, they are all work in progress. I prefer to have headings as this makes my writing easier. I work by putting in information where I can and then enlarging and rewriting as I go along. If at the end of my writing there are some sections which don't have enough information we can combine them. When I enlarge I will add more examples. the definitives section I still have to write - it will get longer with examples.

I have some of the images scanned. others I have to scan. I have an image for most of the sections - stamps (including a gold stamp), covers, postmarks, annual folders etc. The only sections that I don't have anything are errors, booklets and postmarks. The later i could probably use from the catalogue with fair use rationale. I have meter marks and special postmarks.

Yeah maybe I thought your were completing sections as you go along. I will be more patient for a few days, ok? Cheers for now. ww2censor 04:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

ok.

: about public domain - I haven't read anywhere that the stamps are copyright. the earlier post publications from the 1960s didn't carry any such notice. But to be sure I have ask an uncle who use to design stamps if he knows. will let you know what he says.

Bangladesh

Mention should be made of East Bengal/East Pakistan/Bangladesh within the introduction of the article as they used the Pakistan stamps for some of the period up to 1971. It might not need to be mentioned elsewhere but I don't know the philatelic situation. ww2censor 23:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

As East Pakistan, Bangladesh used Pakistani stamps until 1971. I will see about mentioning it.

thumb|100px|right|AR Chugtai stamp

Pakistani stamp images

There is a Pakistani stamp uploaded to Wikipedia - can we use the same licensing?

This licensing would be fine, but I doubt this is correctly licensed. I very much doubt that User:Khalid Mahmood owns the copyright for this image and any other stamps he uploaded, but I see you are already asking him for a status on this. My view is that the copyright belongs to the Pakistani government and may or may not yet be in the Public Domain due to its age.

I asked someone and he suggested that I email the Director General of Pakistan Post and ask. I will email the DG tomorrow and see what he says.

I hope you get a reply. You might even suggest that someone from their legal department reply as their knowledge is likely to be more accurate. We shall wait and see. If you don't get a reply you may have to write a letter. You might check out this page for suggestions on how to ask for permission to use the images as an adjunct to finding out the copyright status. I wold be clear to ask when Pakistani government copyright expires as this is likely the cut off point, but write as you think appropriate. BTW, have you had any flooding problems like I see on the BBC world news? I hope not. Cheers ww2censor 13:31, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Still waiting for the reply. I have looked at the leaflets issued with each stamp and there is no copyright notice on it. I am pretty convinced that stamps are in public domain. thanks for your concern. The floods are better now though the rural areas are still feeling the effects. Rzafar 14:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice and easy if they are all PD. Let's keep our fingers crossed. I see you have been working hard. ww2censor 20:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I wrote to the secretary of the Pakistan Study Circle to see if he knew - still waiting to hear. Rzafar 08:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I still haven't heard from any place regarding the use of stamp images. Rzafar 14:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Until you get a definitive answer all you can do is use the fair-use rationale I mentioned above for a few selected stamp images. ww2censor 17:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I talked to a Deputy Registrar at Pakistan's Intellectual Property Organisation (IPO) and this is what he had to say: For non commercial usage, images can be freely used under fair usage. For commercial usage, he did say that they could be used in a book but that it should mention, "with compliments of Pakistan Post,". From what I gathered, acknowledgement was necessary in commercial usage. I don't think you have to pay though but he didn't say and I forgot to ask him. let me know if this helps. Rzafar (talk) 18:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

"Freely used under fair usage" is not free by our standards. Most likely Pakistani stamps fall under a copyright rule similar to British Crown copyright and are not PD for fifty years or so. It's not good enough to ask for "permission"; a better litmus test would be "could I take the stamp image, put it on a t-shirt and sell a million of them, or reuse parts of the image on the stamps of my own country", etc. Stan (talk) 08:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I am going to write and ask the registrar at IPO-Pakistan about image copyright. could you please let me know, if I need to ask about about postal stationery including aerogrammes and prepaid envelopes as well as postally used envelopes. Rzafar (talk) 17:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I talked to the Copyright office and they said that all Pakistani postage stamps are copyright under the 1962 Copyright Ordinance, section 2, "artistic work". Stamps don't have to be registered as all artistic work produced in the country is automatically copyright. Registration only helps in the case where there is a need to prove ownership and therefore encouraged. Rzafar (talk)

I wonder can you get a hold of the 1962 Copyright Ordinance. Perhaps the copyright only took effect from 1962, or maybe a 50-year rule applies. Either way the only other course of action is to use a small number of images under the fair-use criteria, but reasoned justification for each use must be made for all the images so used. ww2censor (talk) 15:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

He further stated that the copyright is 50 years from the date of issue for entities. However, he further explained that for stamps, one has to first find out if there was an agreement or not with say the designer giving him copyright. If not then it is assumed that the government is the copyright holder. If the designer is, then it is 70 years from his death. Also in 1947 the British Copyright Act of 1911 was in force, so all years are covered. His suggestion was to contact a lawyer. I think it would be easiler to use a small number of stamps. How many do you think would be acceptable and not violate copyright?Rzafar (talk) 07:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Stamp Designed in 1948 by Chughtai .gif

Image:Stamp Designed in 1948 by Chughtai .gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:25, 18 February 2008 (UTC)