User talk:SMcCandlish/Archive 199

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June 2023

CS1 error on Tartan

 Fixed

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Tartan, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 04:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

 Done

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

Disregard

 – Malformed RfC shut down by the time I got there.

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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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CS1 error on Tartan

 Fixed

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Tartan, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 09:08, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

Disregard

 – I don't care, even slightly.

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Holy cow!

Newbie here. I just wanted to comment that I'm absolutely blown away by your User and Talk pages. After leaving a reply to you here, I was curious about who and what you're all about, and ... wow! I've obviously managed to interact with a bona fide WP:VIP. Major props to you for all you've done, and continue to do. I just might be inspired to finally get around to doing some serious development of my Talk page, with you as a role model. I've gotta learn how to do all these things!

You don't need to respond to this as you're obviously a very busy guy. I just had to leave you a note about how impressed I am. Yesthatbruce (talk) 10:20, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm no kind of VIP, I'm just a "wiki-fossil". I've been here since 2005 or so. Glad you like the pages.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:13, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

 Done

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Battleground?

The fact that you and a few others habitually dive immediately into a WP:BATTLEGROUND stance any time you run into something of a "doctrinal" difference in stance is why this topic on WP is so awful and why people keep getting topic-banned from it.
— [1]

Are you really trying to suggest that it's the fault of LGBTQ+ editors complaining about mistreatment that people feel uncomfortable when challenged on that mistreatment and that that's somehow LGBTQ+ editors creating a battleground? (I recognise that the specific context here is hardly an egregious example of mistreatment.) I'm sure you wouldn't object to a person of colour trying to nudge you away from terms they find problematic or hurtful.

Can I remind you of the UCoC and its expectations around mutual respect? Practice empathy. Listen and try to understand what Wikimedians of different backgrounds want to tell you. Be ready to challenge and adapt your own understanding, expectations and behaviour as a Wikimedian. and also Respect the way that contributors name and describe themselves. … People who identify with a certain sexual orientation or gender identity using distinct names or pronouns;

Can I please ask that you try to be more respectful of the concerns of LGBTQ+ editors, especially around sex and gender?

Thank you — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 16:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not "mistreating" or "disrespecting" anyone, let alone on the basis of any sociological class or group. I'm objecting to a few habitual participants in these topical debates treating their fellow editors automatically as ideological enemies every time there's a slight disagreement about P&G wording/interpretation that happens to touch upon their subject of interest. It's unbelievably tedious and a serious drain on community goodwill and collegiality. We keep ending up at noticeboards for a reason. Your seeming insinuation that bringing up these concerns, even pointedly, is akin to using the N-word is not sustainable. I'm in the LGBT camp myself (and don't feel like being any more explicit about it here; WP is not LiveJournal). Being under that tent doesn't give anyone special privileges to be pigeonholing asshats toward other editors, as too many people in these debates have been, for very, very long time, and almost entirely on one side (those drivebys who do it from the other side get indeffed on sight). The failure to practice empathy is largely coming from a single "accept my doctrinal position or you are evil" direction, and it needs to stop. More broadly speaking, I am sick to death and beyond of the left tearing itself apart over micro-factional squabbles; it's a disease, and it's why the far-right is rising unchecked.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:09, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

PS: I thought this was about something at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: Proposed addition to MOS:GENDERID - when to include deadnames, but it turns out to be something about Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Gender identity#RfC: Pronouns for chatbots, AI, etc. which has no connection to transgender/nonbinary concerns at all. If you are going around harassing people at their talk pages with accusations like the above on the presumption that any and all discussions of grammatical gender, even about inanimate objects, have something deeply to do with TG/NB socio-politics, then you are definitely one of the people who need to be topic-banned from this area after all.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  15:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Kindly don't threaten me with bans or accusations of harassment. — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 16:54, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Not threatening you with anything; observing that a battlegrounder needs to be removed from the topic area doesn't equate to a promise to seek that removal. I no longer have much stomach for dramaboarding. Asking if you've been harassing people isn't an accusation of harassment – though I certainly feel harassed, specifically for having a socio-political viewpoint that minorly differs from yours. Instead of doubling down on the hostility any further, you should probably stay off my talk page unless you have something encyclopedically constructive to discuss WP:NOT#FORUM.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:03, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

There is certainly no intention to "double down on hostility" here, though I note the repeated accusation and bad faith argumentation in your response. Just as much as I guess you do, I would much rather avoid drama and personal disagreement, so I look forward to mutual silence until we have something encyclopedically constructive to discuss. — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 17:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Works for me. WP:SHUN is often actually helpful in my experience. PS: I don't think you're acting in bad faith. Activists generally have intensely good faith, but have a hard time turning the advocacy firehose down, and stepping back from a fighting-the-good-fight binary narrative. It's a hard habit to break (I know; former professional activist).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

 Done

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New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023

Extended content

Hello SMcCandlish, New Page Review queue April to June 2023 Backlog Redirect drive: In response to an unusually high redirect backlog, we held a redirect backlog drive in May. The drive completed with 23851 reviews done in total, bringing the redirect backlog to 0 (momentarily). Congratulations to Hey man im josh who led with a staggering 4316 points, followed by Meena and Greyzxq with 2868 and 2546 points respectively. See this page for more details. The redirect queue is steadily rising again and is steadily approaching 4,000. Please continue to help out, even if it's only for a few or even one review a day. Redirect autopatrol: All administrators without autopatrol have now been added to the redirect autopatrol list. If you see any users who consistently create significant amounts of good quality redirects, consider requesting redirect autopatrol for them here. WMF work on PageTriage: The WMF Moderator Tools team, consisting of Sam, Jason and Susana, and also some patches from Jon, has been hard at work updating PageTriage. They are focusing their efforts on modernising the extension's code rather than on bug fixes or new features, though some user-facing work will be prioritised. This will help make sure that this extension is not deprecated, and is easier to work on in the future. In the next month or so, we will have an opt-in beta test where new page patrollers can help test the rewrite of Special:NewPagesFeed, to help find bugs. We will post more details at WT:NPPR when we are ready for beta testers. Articles for Creation (AFC): All new page reviewers are now automatically approved for Articles for Creation draft reviewing (you do not need to apply at WT:AFCP like was required previously). To install the AFC helper script, visit Special:Preferences, visit the Gadgets tab, tick "Yet Another AFC Helper Script", then click "Save". To find drafts to review, visit Special:NewPagesFeed, and at the top left, tick "Articles for Creation". To review a draft, visit a submitted draft, click on the "More" menu, then click "Review (AFCH)". You can also comment on and submit drafts that are unsubmitted using the script. You can review the AFC workflow at WP:AFCR. It is up to you if you also want to mark your AFC accepts as NPP reviewed (this is allowed but optional, depends if you would like a second set of eyes on your accept). Don't forget that draftspace is optional, so moves of drafts to mainspace (even if they are not ready) should not be reverted, except possibly if there is conflict of interest. Pro tip: Did you know that visual artists such as painters have their own SNG? The most common part of this "creative professionals" criteria that applies to artists is WP:ARTIST 4b (solo exhibition, not group exhibition, at a major museum) or 4d (being represented within the permanent collections of two museums). Reminders Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter. There is live chat with patrollers on the New Page Patrol Discord and #wikimedia-npp connect on IRC. Please add the project discussion page to your watchlist. To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

 Done

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

 Done

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June thanks

June songs

my story today

Thank you for improving articles in June! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

Disregard

 – I don't even slightly care.

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Disambiguation link notification for June 25

 Fixed

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Tartan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Allan Ramsay.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:06, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

 Done

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Page-ception

Hi. A small pebble in my shoe for years... never seen a solid answer... maybe you have some insight?

If I'm citing a journal article (or similar), I need to cite 2 sets of page numbers: the page(s) that locate the article and, within that, the page(s) that locate the cited fact. Now if I'm in charge (or taking charge) of the WP page, I can just use {{sfn}} and everything's smooth. If I'm working in a <ref>...</ref> context, there seems no elegant solution. I've come to think that adding {{rp}} to each inline is the best available option, but I don't recall ever coming across an intelligent discussion of this problem (which must occur literally a million times). Thoughts? Thanks. Phil wink (talk) 18:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

@Phil wink: See what I've been doing at Tartan, which has quite complex <ref> and {{efn}} noting (but not using {{sfn}} because of its limitations; see thread near bottom of that's article's talk page, about citation style). The basic technique is to do one of the following:

• At first occurrence of the source, add a |ref= parameter: <ref>{{cite journal |last=McNuts |first=Ima Really |title=Crazy Stuff |date=2006 |journal=Wild and Wooly Science |volume=7 |issue=2 |pages=122–123 |ref=McNuttsIR2006}}</ref>, then at second citation: <ref>[[#McNuttsIR2006|McNuts, I. R. (2006)]], p. 131.</ref>
• More cleanly, especially if there's a divided referencing section with separate subsections for citations and sources, add the source you're going to cite multiple times to the latter, without any page numbers: * {{cite journal |last=McNuts |first=Ima Really |title=Crazy Stuff |date=2006 |journal=Wild and Wooly Science |volume=7 |issue=2 |ref=McNuttsIR2006}}, then in the body, use the short form for both citations: <ref>[[#McNuttsIR2006|McNuts, I. R. (2006)]], pp. 122–123.</ref> and <ref>[[#McNuttsIR2006|McNuts, I. R. (2006)]], p. 131.</ref>.
• If you're going to also use {{sfn}} style in the same piece, it autogenerates the equivalent of |ref=, so what you have to do is view source on the page and find out what the #CITEREFNameDate is of the target source, and use that in the hand-coded short notes: <ref>[[#CITEREFNameDate|McNuts, I. R. (2006)]], pp. 122–123.</ref>. If you added a |ref= to that source, it would override the #CITEREFNameDate, and break all the {{sfn}} notes that point to the same source. You can see me doing using this mixed approach if you view the source of the section History of the kilt#Dispute about invention, e.g.: <ref name="Innes of Learney 5-6">[[#CITEREFInnes_of_Learney1971|Innes of Learney (1971)]], pp. 5–6; citing: {{cite book |last=Gordon of Rothiemay |first=James |title=History of Scots Affairs, from 1637 to 1641 |date=1841 |chapter=Appendix |page=xliii |location=Aberdeen |publisher=Spalding Club}}</ref>; you can't do a "citing: ..." add-on note like that inside {{sfn}}. The flexibility of the |ref= thing is so good that I could have added a |ref=GordonOfRothiemay1841 to that Gordon of Rothiemay embedded citation, and later cited it directly with [[#GordonOfRothiemay1841|Gordon of Rothiemay (1841)]], p. 23, or whatever. I'm doing exactly that sort of thing in several places at Tartan.

While I invented {{rp}} (specifically to handle re-re-re-re-re-citing the same source a zillion times in Glossary of cue sports terms, waaay back in the day), it is basically obsolete now because of the |ref= parameter.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:15, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Very much obliged for the detailed response. I look forward to reviewing your examples. Cheers. Phil wink (talk) 00:25, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

 Done

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