Salsakesh

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World Salsa Championships

Hi Salsakesh. I see that you reverted the category change I made to World Salsa Championships. I categorized it under Category:Ballroom dance competitions because ballroom dance says Other dances sometimes placed under the umbrella "ballroom dance" include ... Salsa. As things stand now, your reason for reverting is unclear. Would you please either (1) restore my edit, or (2) revise ballroom dance to exclude salsa (or explain under what circumstances it is not covered by the ballroom dance "umbrella")? Thanks -- Lambtron (talk) 17:46, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

@Lambtron: Hey Lambtron, the keyword there is "sometimes" (the same article also claims that merrengue is sometimes categorized as a ballroom dance, which is silly). You will notice that salsa is not listed as one of the official competition dances as defined by the WDC. The fact that ballroom dance competitions occasionally include salsa does not make the World Salsa Championships a "ballroom competition". They are strictly a salsa competition (or Latin dance, in the case of the WLDC) and do not feature any official dances under the classification of "ballroom dance" (as defined by the World Dance Council). Salsakesh (talk) 17:58, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

The cited quotation led me to believe that salsa generally falls under ballroom dance. If you can, would you please revise ballroom dance to clarify this issue and explain the meaning of "sometimes" (or remove the statement altogether if it's incorrect)? That would be helpful to me and possibly others as well. BTW, my goal here is to diffuse Category:Dance competitions -- any collaboration in that endeavor would be appreciated. Lambtron (talk) 19:28, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

@Lambtron: OK, that makes sense. Maybe you can create a separate category for "Latin Dance Competitions" then? Then the World Salsa Championships page can be broken up into smaller subpages (World Salsa Championships, World Latin Dance Cup, World Salsa Summit, Mayan) and listed there.

I think the description on the ballroom dance page, as written, makes sense: "Other dances sometimes placed under the umbrella "ballroom dance" include Nightclub Dances such as Lindy Hop, West Coast Swing, Nightclub Two Step, Hustle, Salsa, and Merengue. The categorization of dances as "ballroom dances" has always been fluid, with new dances or folk dances being added to or removed from the ballroom repertoire from time to time, so no list of subcategories or dances is any more than a description of current practices. There are other dances historically accepted as ballroom dances, and are revived via the Vintage dance movement." Salsakesh (talk) 19:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

I created Category:Latin dance competitions as you suggested, but I'm still having difficulty understanding the ballroom dance sentences you highlighted. They seem to suggest (in fairly vague language) that salsa is or was at one time ("sometimes") considered ballroom repertoire. The only reason I know it's not the case now is because you told me so. No disrespect, but this section of the ballroom dance article seems to nibble around the edges of important facts without ever making definitive statements. I'd fix it if I could but, alas, I'm here precisely because I'm not an expert on this topic. Lambtron (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

@Lambtron: Looks good. I can separate out the different salsa competitions when I have time.

Regarding ballroom dance in general, the term is very broad and can mean a number of things. From the ballroom dance page: "Ballroom dance may refer, at its widest definition, to almost any type of partner dancing as recreation. However, with the emergence of dancesport in modern times, the term has become narrower in scope. Traditionally, the term refers to the five International Standard and five International Latin style dances."

So under the first definition, you could say that salsa is a "ballroom dance" in the sense that it is a partner dance that is occasionally danced in ballrooms, although most dancers consider it a "street dance" or "nightclub dance" since it is more commonly danced in those settings. Under the second definition, salsa is not recognized by the WDC as an official dancesport category under the five International & Latin styles. However, there are a few ballroom competitions which include a "nightclub dance" category, under which salsa is sometimes included. So the definition is a little muddy, but someone looking for "Ballroom dance competitions" is probably not interested in the World Salsa Championships. Salsakesh (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks @Magiciandude: I will check it out.

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Hey Sfan00 IMG, this image is the official logo of the company. My understanding is that articles can reference the official logo of a company for the purposes of the Encyclopedia. Salsakesh (talk) 23:18, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

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Promotional tone

Hi! Thanks for asking at User talk:Siroxo#About VeVe and promotional tone! It might take a bit of explaining, as this is such a common problem on Wikipedia, by no means unique to VeVe.

So the first issues is that the information presented doesn't go into much depth about what makes the app significant, interesting, or notable. It mostly provides a company profile and history listing some business deals. Most of this is tangential background. A bit of this may be useful in an article on the app, but here it's given too much attention, relative to the app itself.

With tech products especially, it's extremely easy to fall into the trap of finding what look like secondary sources and putting the key piece of information in the article with a citation. The problem, and the reason behind guidelines like WP:CORPDEPTH is that this information is rarely truly secondary and independent.

I would recommend finding one or two in-depth secondary sources (and for something like this, suggest ones that meet WP:CORPDEPTH or WP:PRODUCTREV) that are completely independent, and reading them with some detail. Based on the reading, figure out why the source wrote the article, and then summarize those points as the core of the article, and highlight them in the lead. Maybe there's something about who's using the app, or something interesting about the way it came into being, or maybe it's doing something novel in the way it's approaching NFT sales, right now I'm not sure what makes this app notable.

Once you have that core it's fine fill in some necessary gaps with some ABOUTSELF claims from press releases or routine coverage, etc.

Beyond this, note that there's a bit of a "promotional voice". Essentially, playing up the subject to make it sound ... better in some way. It's hard to unlearn this "promotional voice". Many of us have to use it every day as part of our jobs, even just in playing up our own abilities. I catch myself doing it plenty, and I'm sure I sometimes don't catch myself

Here's a couple concrete examples of the promotional voice from VeVe

1. The use of "business" jargon and buzzwords: Eg. "The app serves as a platform for the buying and selling of licensed digital collectibles, utilizing non-fungible token (NFT) technology." Now I'm not precisely sure what this app is, but here's a slight improvement "The app is a storefront for non-fungible tokens (NFTs)".
2. Another example is the name-dropping in the lead. If there is a specific brand that they are particularly notable for working with, it might be reasonable to include it in the lead. But the list of brands is promotional, even if that's not what's intended.

There are other similar issues later in the article.

I hope this answers your question. —siroχo 04:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

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