Smettems

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Re:Indonesian scripts

Hi Smettems.

Thank you for your link, I've found it quite interesting:)

Regarding Lampung script, I think I have too little resource on that subject. The Indonesian article is nice, but I'm worried that the recurring habit of not including resources or citation in Indonesian wikipedia would not be tolerated in English. As such, I could not just translate it. Perhaps you have other sources?

Oh and if I may, what made you took interest in Indonesian scripts? Regards, Alteaven (talk) 12:59, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, no, they wouldn't be happy with a sourceless article, thought they probably would'nt delete it and would just put a request for citations. I started gaining interest in Indonesian scripts mainly due to my interest in Brahmic scripts, and until recently, had no idea the amount of writing systems prevalent (or historically prevalent :( ) in Indonesia. Also, the Javanese script is exceedingly beautiful, and so I had to learn it. Smettems (talk) 23:13, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

The feeling is mutual:) I have been trying to promote the usage of Javanese myself, albeit in a very limited sphere. However, I find that explaining the script in clear prose is quite difficult. As there are rules but there are many ambiguities which are not well defined, and the fact that English is not my first language. Would you give your opinion on the recently edited Javanese script? I've been trying to promote it to Good Article Class and inputs are greatly appreciated. Alteaven (talk) 00:14, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll definitely give it a look soon, and I'd love to see the script become more used. I'll give you a list of edit ideas once I've read it thoroughly. Smettems (talk) 02:36, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, I read the article thoroughly and I have some feedback.

• Under Aksara, give an example for each of the ɔ/a rules.
• Additional Aksara should be split into with the pa cerek, nga lelet, nga lelet raswadi (and include a pa cerek + tarung) and ra agung in one category, and then have an entire (sub?)section for Aksara Rekan. Also, there are a lot of rekan: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/javanese.htm.
• In Sandhangan, add names for the sandhangan swara, and include the ones for the long vowels too. Honestly, the previous thing that was there that covered the vowel diacritics was better. The first several sections of the article should simply be about the script itself, with no partiality to which language being transcribed.
• Also, add the difference between using the pasangan for ya and ra, and the pengkal cakra, referencing the fact that Javanese uses no spaces. Make note that the panyangga is only used for Om (Ong) and that the wignyan is not found medially.
• Under Numerals, there was a picture I believe of the date in Javanese, and I can't render Javanese on my comp (and I think most people can't), so a pic would be pretty useful.
• Add some pictures of very ornate rerenggans.
• After the Collation section, do a Javanese Usage, Sasak Usage, Sundanese Usage (keeping in mind that Aksara Sunda Baku exists), Madurese Usage, Osing Usage, etc.
• Maybe add a section about calligraphy?

• Use this too http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3319.pdf.
• And you might also like this, but it's not related, http://lingdy.aacore.jp/doc/endangered-scripts-issea/asako_shiohara_paper.pdf. Smettems (talk) 03:33, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the input. I'll get on it asap. However I would like to add several things:

• splitting additional aksara into ganten and others would make each section terribly short. So I think its better to categorize them in one section. But idk, that section is the most confusing for me to write.
• the rekan letters in omniglot is possible, but not widely attested. I'll add a passage explaining that other combinations are possible, but the current nine is the most common
• long sandhangan are no longer used in contemporary orthography. As such, it is more appropriate to be used in sanskrit usage.
• based on the sinhala script article (which is a good article), the language should be mentioned. And mentioning sanskrit would ease explanations regarding original pronunciation.
• wignyan actually can be used medial positition. Only in sanskrit usage (again) that medial use is prohibited.
• what would you propose to write in the sundanese usage etc? Many resources that I have only mentioned this briefly and do not go into much detail.

Other than that, your comments is very useful. Thanks again Alteaven (talk) 05:04, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the response.

• I think perhaps that instead of making the ganten and the others separate categories, just make separate tables within the category for them.
• Adding the passage about the rekan sounds great. Also, if you could identify which form of Chinese (Hokkien, Cantonese, etc.) the rekan in omniglot refer to, that would be helpful.
• You're right, it is better to leave the long sandhangan out.
• I had no idea about the wignyan. I'm learning new things every day.
• If you feel you have anything adequate to write about for sundanese, then do so, otherwise just leave it.

Once you've made all your changes, let me know, and I'll do a spelling and grammer check over the whole thing, and then you can nominate it for a good article. :) Smettems (talk) 05:48, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Javanese

Hi, I've done as far as I'm capable of. However...

• I can't find examples of the ɔ/a rules
• Ornate varieties (as shown in the unicode proposal) is actually true for all special pada, not just rerengan, and it is actually more apparent in pada luhur. I would like to give an example using this image but I don't know where to put it.
• For the example of dates, I want to use svg pictures. But somehow, my computer cannot upload svg.
• In writing system articles, calligraphy is usually not included.

See if you can resolve these issues? And let me know if it has passed your grammar check. Thanks, Alteaven (talk) 09:06, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

P.S. for the sake of transparency, I'm going to put your inputs and my responses in the Javanese Script's talk page

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