Smitty1999

Back to the Future

Are these changes correct? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Back_to_the_Future%3A_The_Musical&diff=1165723169&oldid=1165516468 This guy has been edit warring about them, but is he (she?) right? All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:43, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, what exactly happened? My apologies, I have been offline for a little while. I did see this one user is Edit Warring with you, but I don't necessarily know what is going on. Can you specify what is going on to catch me up? Smitty1999 (talk) 07:06, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

He is making minor changes to things like page numbers. Can you please check his changes to see if he is correct? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Back_to_the_Future%3A_The_Musical&diff=1165723169&oldid=1165516468 Thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:56, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Cast tables

Let's take any further discussions concerning specific articles' cast table formats to those articles' Talk pages or to our own, so we don't spam everyone on the Musical Theatre talk page. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Just want to make sure: Everyone added to the table should be mentioned in the Productions section with the relevant sources cited, and should have starred in a production either (1) running at least a year, (2) on B'way or (3) in the WE. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:34, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Yep, that sounds about right! I definitely think for Cabaret, we should mention the names in the rotating casts in the current London production. They're rotating celebrity names in that production and will likely do the same with the current Broadway revival. That why the Emcee and Sally have the most notable names in their respective table boxes. Smitty1999 (talk) 11:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I found numerous names in the Moulin Rouge! (musical) article that were not named or referenced in the Productions section. I added the notable names to the Productions section, but many of the productions, including the Original Production, did not have a ref verifying that the production actually opened with these people in it. Can you please find them? I can't even tell if some of the productions listed actually happened. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers sorry for not responding right away, I'll take a look and see if I can find them. Smitty1999 (talk) 10:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the cites at Moulin Rouge!. Just the "Others" section of it still needs cites, if you can. Please watch Cabaret, as the new table was challenged there. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I saw that. Thanks for fixing that. I will look for more sources for the other production of MR. I'll be sure to watch Cabaret and make sure it is not challenged. Smitty1999 (talk) 19:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers I would also suggest condensing the Hamilton cast tables as that is even worse than Cabaret and Moulin Rouge combined. Smitty1999 (talk) 19:47, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, any of them that you do this with I will support, but, as with Moulin Rouge! please make sure that every name in the table is of a person who (1) either originated the role in a long-running major-market production, or played the role for at least a year in another long-running production described in the Productions section, and (2) that their name is in the productions section, together with a ref that specifically states that they actually played the role. Good luck, and thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok, so we no longer mention notable replacements unless they were in it for over a year? I just feel some may challenge that but I am ok with whatever you think is best. Smitty1999 (talk) 20:51, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I think that is a reasonable measure of "long-running" for a modern musical (for musicals prior to Oklahoma! runs and revivals of less than a year were much more usual). And, if we so state in a <!-- hidden comment --> above the table, it is, at least, an objective measurement, and should satisfy WP:NOTEWORTHY. If a notable person got a lot of positive press for their performance, or a Tony, Olivier, or Drama Desk award, of course, they should be mentioned in the Productions section. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:13, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

By the way, for a musical that is still very popular, like Hamilton or Les Mis, where there is a lot of fan activity, I think you will get a lot of resistance. It would be better, perhaps, to open a discussion on the Talk page first and let people know what your plan is. If people object, we might be able to persuade them or raise a WP:CONSENSUS to do it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Here are my justifications, for future reference, for the more concise cast table format: The format with a separate column for each major production is hugely bloated and emphasizes non-notable actors. It also draws endless edits adding more and more columns, often for less WP:NOTEWORTHY productions, until the table squeezes the text more and more. In the more concise format, each name shown in the table, and the ref for each name, must be in the Productions section before it is added to the table. This format emphasizes the original production where people created the characters in the first major-market staging, and the other column is intended to include only those notable actors who originated the character in other major productions or portrayed the characters for, generally, at least a year as replacements. See also WP:NOTEWORTHY. Also, Wikipedia is WP:NOT a directory or a forum for promoting non-notable actors. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:04, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Citations

Please note that the author's name and the date of publication are far more important than the access date. Please try to add the author name and date of publication to your citations. Thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh. My bad. I used the automatic citation feature. It must not have added it in correctly. Let me see if I can fix it. Thanks for noting that. Smitty1999 (talk) 20:41, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Are we talking about the citation I put in Back to the Future for Amber Davies? The citation has the name and the publishing date. Did I miss something or is this from a different article? Smitty1999 (talk) 20:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

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A note on tables

Please see MOS:NO-TABLES. Tables are generally not required (and are discouraged) for simple lists. Thanks, Wracking ^talk! 22:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

What page are you having an issue about? Smitty1999 (talk) 23:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I saw this edit at Oh, Mary!. Wracking ^talk! 02:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I was just following what other theatre related pages look like. Please bring this up in a discussion post on WP:THEATRE and WP:MUSICALS as I don't have further knowledge of this rule. Smitty1999 (talk) 03:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't have the energy or desire to be involved in that conversation. I just wanted to let you know of the MOS recommendations on tables, and explain why I had changed the table at Oh, Mary! to a list. Wracking ^talk! 03:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

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