Stanleywlchen
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Hello, Stanleywlchen, welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions! I'm Planetary Chaos Redux, one of the many editors here, and I hope you decide to stay here and help contribute to Wikipedia.
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Sincerely, Planetary Chaos Redux (talk) November 6, 2024. To see your edit count click here Español · Deutsch · Français · Italiano · עברית · Русский · 日本語 · Polski · فارسی
- And, be sure to read Your first article, it is very informative! Planetary Chaos Redux (talk) 14:23, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
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Your submission at Articles for creation: SliderAsia Trombone Festival (October 7)
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Hello! Stanleywlchen,
I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there!
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getting SliderAsia article written correctly
editHey there Stanley. Looks like you have been trying to get an article written for some time now! User_talk:Planetary_Chaos_Redux#.22SliderAsia.22_article... I would be interested in trying to help you out. Sorry it took so long for somebody to show up, but one of the good things about wikipedia is that there is no rush -- this stuff is meant to survive indefinitely.
the five pillars
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As you are probably aware by now, wikipedia has a bunch of rules. First of all, it is encyclopedic, which means just the facts (no advertising), write it as a history that will endure for the ages (no chatty tone and no sales pitch), and the subject must be notable (defined as covered-in-reliable-sources-like-tv-radio-newspaper-similar). WP:Five_pillars Second of all, the reason your original submission in 2011 was rejected, it must be unbiased, which means if the article is about you, about your business, about your spouse, about your workplace, or about *anything* for which you have a plausible conflict of interest, especially financial interest, then tread very very carefully. Best practice is to always disclose your bias preferably in your username so you don't forget to mention it (there is a person called William_from_BP or something like that who comments on the talkpage of articles related to British Petroleum for instance), and then *not* edit articles where a reasonable person might have their doubts. You want to edit an article about Jeep, because you drive one and know something about it? No problemo -- but cite your sources, this is an encyclopedia. You want to edit an article about Jeep, because you own a million shares and work for the company and want to tell everybody who reads wikipedia how great everything is buy now buy now? Better stay away, or stick to the article talkpage; you can try to pretend you are unbiased, and you certainly have more insider knowledge, but sooner or later, you will fall into the trap of spamming wikipedia. We try hard to nip that in the bud, by being over-cautious to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Of course, this is particularly problematic in your case... because until there is a SliderAsia article, there *is* no SliderAsia talkpage! More on overcoming that in a moment. WP:Five_pillars Third of all, all info submitted must be under CC-BY-SA licensing, or GFDL originally. That means that, once submitted, anybody can change it, copy it, remix it, publish a book using it, sell that book, et cetera. They don't need permission, they don't pay anybody, they can say whatever they like (short of libel and slander and such). Now, this does not apply to things like a trademarked name or logo... but any text that goes into wikipedia, must be free-as-in-freedom. You seem to have understood that very clearly, from the beginning -- congratulations, that is a hard mental barrier to overcome! But you are getting told (without them coming out and saying so p'raps) that your submission is still Not Good Enough, and pointing you at WP:COPYPASTE. Disappointing, until you understand why. There is a method to the madness here -- first of all, it is hard to *prove* that you are the copyright holder, of every bit of that text, and that it is in *no* way a derivative work of some other text. (Plus it tricks our copyvio bots.) Also, because you wrote that stuff for other purposes -- and in particular *not* with the single-minded purpose of creating an unbiased encyclopedic article text -- it is probably unsuitable. What we need is to write fresh. A lot of work? Yup. But is is the only way to keep wikipedia reliable. And it is not that hard... once we get started, other people will pitch in, and pretty soon it will be easy. WP:Five_pillars Fourth, wikipedia insists people be civil to each other. As you have found, being civil does not mean being helpful. Nobody is under any obligation to help you figure out the ropes here, especially if they think maybe you are trying to sneak some spam into wikipedia. Please forgive them their biases -- they are supposed to assume good faith, and try and help. But there are only so many hours in a day. WP:Five_pillars That's it, basically. Now you know all the rules. Even those rules can be broken, if doing so is necessary to improve the encyclopedia. WP:NORULES. |
As to your *practical* problem, right this second, since you cannot write the text of article yourself (see pillar two), and since you cannot copy and paste from existing text (see pillar three and pillar two), you are basically stuck. You have to wait around for some neutral editor to happen to discover the Notability of the topic of SliderAsia, because they read about it in the Times or saw it on the TV... or you have to wait for some helpful independent editor to come along, and give you a hand. Well, today must be your lucky day, because here I am, helpful and neutral and independent and objective.
I suggest we compose the sliderAsia article from scratch, right here on your talkpage. Can you please give me some Reliable Sources -- the more respected journalistically and/or academically the better -- which discuss SliderAsia, or at least, mention it? I will skim over them, and write up some neutral encyclopedic text (a paragraph or two) that summarizes the topic, and then we can go from there. If you reply, and I don't respond promptly, put a note on my talkpage to remind me. Thanks. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you and I appreciate your help. You are right, I have no idea how to write up properly on a wiki page and this is my first time, or if you can show/assist me pls.
- Some sources that have mentioned about us include:
- 2011, http://programme.rthk.hk/channel/radio/programme.php?name=radio3/morning_brew&p=2505&d=2011-07-11&e=146007&m=episode , see also Phil Whelan , see also Radio Television Hong Kong , RTHK , audio here.[1]
- 2012, http://programme.rthk.hk/channel/radio/programme.php?name=radio3/morning_brew&p=2505&d=2012-07-09&e=184226&m=episode , same publisher
- 2013, http://programme.rthk.hk/channel/radio/programme.php?name=radio3/morning_brew&p=2505&pid=90887&m=photo&e=224467 , who are the for others? Blurb here — http://programme.rthk.hk/channel/radio/programme.php?name=radio3/morning_brew&p=2505&d=2013-07-09&e=224467&m=episode , same publisher
- 2011, http://www.tomleemusic.com.hk/specialpage/2011/SliderAsia/index.html , see also Tom Lee Music for the yamaha-retailer
- 2012, http://www.robertjambrose.com/#!sliderasia-festival---hong-kong,-sar/zoom/c13l4/imagejw5 , see also Robert J. Ambrose (*that* article needs some WP:PEACOCK help!)
- 2012/2013/2014, http://studyabroad.columbusstate.edu/program.php?programID=252 , no article yet ((Brad Palmer))
- 2011/2012/2013/2014, http://www.densonpaulpollard.com/events/ , no article yet ((Denson Paul Pollard)) , Hong Kong Philharmonic 2001-2007, Metropolitan Opera Orchestra 2007+. Also, http://www.lesitedutrombone.fr/itf2012/densonpaulpollard.htm
- YYYY, http://www.gifted.com.hk/eng/friends-of-gifted.html , no article yet ((International Center For the Gifted & Talented)), very short undated blurb, is this really international?
- What should I do next? Stanley@Chen (talk) 08:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
- Happy new year, Stanley. :-) I finally came back, better late than never, I suppose. I've added some wiki-syntax to your comment above, and some notes, to show you some syntax-tricks and avoid repeating the list... this is a breach of etiquette, usually one should never edit another's comment, except in training-sessions like this. Hope you don't mind! Anyhoo, the in-depth 2011/2012/2013 radio-interviews with Wheland of RTHK are a great start. I noted that this part of the homepage is blank right now,[2] those three should be added. Are there other media interviews/articles/mentions? They can be online or offline, in English or in Chinese or any human language for that matter, as long as they are professional-editorial-board-fact-checked publications (or university-level academic publications... government-publications also often work).
- Most of the other sources in your list are involved with the project (Lee/Ambrose/Palmer/Pollard). These are useful verification that the musicians in question are part of the project (for instance TomLeeMusic.com.hk can be used to verify that Tom Lee Music was a sponsor of the 2011 festival per WP:ABOUTSELF), but since they are not at university or government websites, they do not count as independent in the same way. Additional sources I found:
- 2011, http://www.classifiedpost.com/career-centre/news-insights/face-face-book/taking-collaboration-horns and http://www.classifiedpost.com/career-centre/tags/university-hong-kong . Are these paid-for classified adverts, as the URL suggests? The info on the page hints at least the first one may have been a news-editorial. "News & Insights / Staff Reporter / update on Friday, May 27, 2011 / Copyright © South China Morning Post Publishers Ltd. / Looking to share your student or professional association news? E-mail editor@fuel.hk" Since it was only two sentences, it would be WP:NOTEWORTHY (if independent).
- 2010/2012/2013/2014 , http://www.lbso.org/bios/view/id/44 , see also Alex Iles
- 2011, http://www.sbc.edu.hk/en/student-awards/external-awards/863-6e-chiu-hon-kuen-jimmy-plays-in-dr-don-lucas-trombone-master-class , see also Don Lucas
- 2013/2014/2016, http://www.music.txstate.edu/contentParagraph/00/content_files/file19/document/Somos%20Musicos%20Vol%205%20No%204%20Dec%202013.pdf , see also http://martinmccain.com/home.cfm
- 2012, http://www.music.gsu.edu/docs/Sounds%20Fall%202012.pdf
- 2011, ((need non-SliderAsia-publication w/ confirmation of this co-organizer)) , Chinese University of Hong Kong ... did they publish a blurb on the university website/newspapers/similar?
- 2011, ((need non-SliderAsia-publication w/ confirmation of this co-organizer)) , Hong Kong Baptist University ... did they publish a blurb on the university website/newspapers/similar?
- 2013, ((need non-SliderAsia-publication w/ confirmation of this visit)) , see also Charles Vernon
- 2013/2014, ((need non-SliderAsia-publication w/ confirmation of this honorary advisor)) , ((Ruilin Chao)) ... did they publish a blurb on the university website/newspapers/similar?
- Wikipedia is almost entirely about independent third-party sources, when it comes to creating a dedicated article for SliderAsia/Hong Kong Trombone Association itself. Here is a search-query which will tell you the current list of trombone-specific articles.[3] There are basically just two, the International Trombone Association which has been holding the International Trombone Festival since 1971, and the Eastern Trombone Workshop run by the military in the USA since 1978. Don't worry, you don't need to wait thirty more years before SliderAsia can have a wikipedia page. :-) Here are the relevant pages we have now, so you get an idea of what is needed.
The two biggest trombone-specific festivals, both running since the 1970s.
- International_Trombone_Association, 6 journalism-refs + 55 university-level refs... plus they like SliderAsia, it seems... http://www.trombone.net/events/event.cfm?ID=4393
- Eastern_Trombone_Workshop, 3 journalism-refs + 49 university-level refs
Similar-size similar-age music festivals in Alabama, Taiwan, Illinois, Michigan, Arkansas, Missouri.
- SliderAsia, and the closely-associated Hong Kong Trombone Association , festival/clinic is specific to trombone, 3 journalism-refs + 4 university-level refs (( but the journalism-refs are all the same BBC-type public talk-radio station ... one interview per year ))
- Hangout_Music_Festival , 6 journalism-refs + 0 university-level refs
- Jazz_on_the_Square, 6 journalism-refs + 1 university-level ref
- Beigang_International_Music_Festival, 4 journalism-refs + 1 university-level ref
- Leonard_Falcone_International_Tuba_and_Euphonium_Festival, needs more refs
- Wakarusa_Music_and_Camping_Festival, needs refs
- Roots_N_Blues_N_BBQ_Festival, needs refs
- China Trombone & Tuba Association, only found http://www.unomaha.edu/cfam/profile_facultydirectory.php and the related http://unobands.com/August2007.pdf
Side question... maybe there should be a festival/artist/competition section in the Trombone article, like in related articles?
Other brass instrument festivals.
- National_Trumpet_Competition
- Festival_of_New_Trumpet_Music
- Guča_Trumpet_Festival
- Atlanta_Trumpet_Festival
- International_Tuba_Euphonium_Association
- Leonard_Falcone_International_Tuba_and_Euphonium_Festival
- Melbourne_International_Festival_of_Brass
- Great_American_Brass_Band_Festival
- Over 100 Jazz_festivals, many with dedicated articles.[4]
- So, the next step is to see if you can find more sources, especially newspapers/teevee/magazine stuff, but also university/government stuff. You should also consider giving away press-pass invitations to journalists, and academic-expert-passes to university professors of music, and symphony directors, at the 2014 SliderAsia. This would help improve your chances of getting in-depth reviews published in Reliable Sources. There *may* already be enough sources... especislly if you can find some Chinese-dialect newspapers/magazines/similar covering past festivals... since music festivals taught by university professors and members of major symphonies drawn from an international pool are pretty impressive. But more sources is always better. Note that blogs, press releases, paid adverts, and other such things are no use at all, as far as wikipedia's criteria are concerned; sources must be in the independent media, or academia, or government.
- You also should try and write up a bit of prose. I would suggest creating a new article at WP:AFC, starting with just one sentence plus the list of sources we have so far. That way, we both can work on it together (plus maybe call in some other wikipedians). Hope this helps, thanks for improving wikipedia. p.s. When you have replied here, or created the AfC page, please leave me a message... click 'talk' next to my name, click 'new section' at the top, type your message, then click 'save'. That way I'll know you have digested *this* huge message, and are ready for another. <grin> Talk to you later. — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 00:17, 2 January 2014 (UTC)