StoneCold45

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Ocaasi

Again, welcome! Ocaasi ^c 05:56, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, StoneCold45. You have new messages at Muboshgu's talk page.
Message added 12:41, 8 April 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Number of protesters

No offense, but what you were stating there might be off-topic as well. But i'll still bite: (just once)

• The millions number isn't shady and is mentioned by almost every news website (even Al Jazeera). The "33 million" and "biggest political event in history" claims are the ones that might be shady (but still debated). I never mentioned "33 million" and i even adjectivized it in the article's lead with "strongly debatable and unlikely" to hint that a strong debate exists. Some argue using statements by Google Earth where it says that it doesn't have tools to calculate numbers of protesters. But we all know it has tools to calculate the perimeter of a surface and it's up to us to calculate this surface in m².
• This leaves us with the 14 million number that was given by military sources to news agencies like Reuters and AFP who, in their own way, made it sound official just like when they prefer to rely on Health Ministry claims for a number of casualties (except during wartime). But remember that the only institution allowed to operate helicopters in Egypt is the military and that it's the only reliable source there is for things like that, since no other source exists in the country even if you think it is unreliable.
• My observation goes like this:

surface area + bird's eye view from helicopters + several witnesses on the ground (to confirm how many protesters/m²) = 14 million minimum.

• Remember also that Tahrir Square, Ittihadiya, Sidi Gaber..etc were not the only protest locations since, from my experience, there were tonnes of marches and groups of people protesting and chanting against Morsi in most streets across Cairo. I won't deny some were pro-Morsi of course. But for example, all my pro-Morsi friends told me they avoided demonstrating that day in fears of clashes. (i'm talking about the random protests not the ones in Rabaa)

Anyway, that's just the way i personally see it. But to be honest, i will stop the debate right there because i cannot impose something like that on the article, as it is WP:OR and should be avoided without sources, and i didn't bother looking for any yet. Regards. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 05:49, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

I disagree, it was also on topic since I was trying to prove there was major involvement of the institutions I mentioned, and the media tried to falsely claim larger-than-truth numbers.

On the other hand I don't disagree it was quite a number of people who protested against Morsi.

• The millions number is shady because unlike in January 2011, not all the governorates were in protest. We've all seen the huge numbers of protesters in -major- areas, and even had the convenience to watch it in "bird eye view". But using the Google Earth method you mentioned, by measuring the area of Tahrir square (this is just an example but on a huge square) AND the surrounding streets we get square meters (don't remember the number) that can hold a number of people at the very, very maximum 500,000 people at 4 people/m² according to this video [1] (Note the video is in Arabic but I trust you can understand that if I remember correct you are a fellow Egyptian). I have tried this method myself and can confirm the numbers mentioned in the video.

• So per what I said, helicopters show nothing apart from that those streets/squares were filled with protesters but even then, the footage of the military showed inclined angles that could trick you into thinking the square or street was filled with people. But even with them filled, the numbers reach hundreds of thousands, more half a million in Cairo alone. So we can add in other hundreds of thousands from Alexandria and Suwais to reach more than a million, that is all with the assumption the streets were at their fullest with extreme density (4/m²). Those are just 3 of the major cities, other smaller ones will add a bunch more but no where near even the 14 million number you mention. As I mentioned not all cities/governorates were in protest, in my knowledge the southern parts (Al Saaeed) which witnessed the most of Morsi's achievements, without too much obstructions from the systems, were in support of legitimacy.

Peace be upon you buddy ;) StoneCold45 (talk) 03:34, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

rename

[2] --Panam2014 (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)